Was I in the wrong? Selling car on Craigslist...

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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Kira
You canceled an appointment. Nothing more.


The "nothing more" part is that the contract WAS the appointment....agreed upon by two individuals. In short, a right to have first refusal on the vehicle. And that's a right that is given a lot of weight in the business world from mergers, real estate, etc. The only way to remove that right was to have them back out, or actually see the car and waffle about it. They did neither. And if the buyer did back out, that would have been just as wrong as the seller backing out. And even "first $1200 takes it" doesn't negate this obligation.

"I emailed back and forth with a guy that seemed interested and he OFFERED me a price contingent on him coming to take a look at the vehicle and it checking out per my description."

He offered, you agreed. Contingencies and or time passing don't alter the original agreement. Case closed.

Can anyone direct me to the CFR "Craig's List" regulations? Or are they posted at the top of Craig's List pages stating that rules of US law are exempted by Craig's List cash and carry terms? Cash is the only "law."



In terms of both law and ethics in real estate, business, etc.; anything that isn't on paper never happened.

One could make the argument that the email is a binding contract of first refusal, except that the seller in this case never declared any exclusivity. Also, the buyer apparently never asked for exclusivity.

That is the clincher right there.

When a company or individual makes a claim of exclusivity on a transaction where there is question of such terms having been set, the first question that always comes up is how the transaction was secured.

This was a completely unsecured transaction, with no clear terms of exclusivity. The only way the buyer's claim could be weaker would be if he had never emailed at all.

There is not and probably never has been a property transaction in the business world where exclusivity was not established through some sort of financial guarantee; be it credit, cash, cashier's check, escrow, or otherwise.

There is zero obligation here. I and most professional people would define this as a casual negotiation, at best.
 
The potential buyer had zero skin in the game. At most you owe him an apple that's been laying on ground for a few weeks.
 
Originally Posted By: Huie83
I think you hit the nail on the head exactly. I also told him that I was free on Sunday and showing the car that day. I guess maybe I should of spelled it out exactly. " We have an appointment for Tuesday, but I am still going to show the car in the mean time. First with cash in hand gets it."

I gave him the chance to come on the day I sold it...


I think this is a new fact you've just presented. You told buyer #1 that you were showing the car earlier than the set appointment and offered him another opportunity to prioritize it? In my opinion, this changes everything. You gave buyer #1 the opportunity and apprised him that another sale was possible if he didn't act sooner. After hearing this, I believe you had no further obligation to him.
 
You snooze, and you lose.

Just sold a house (through a realtor), first set of buyers dragged their feet, finally made an acceptable offer contingent upon a bunch of house inspectors getting in to see the place. Before they could schedule those appointments with the inspectors, another buyer swooped in, gave a written offer for the same amount with only one standard inspection to be done. Inspector came the next morning, and we went into contract.

The original buyers were not happy, but as has been written-- You snooze, and you lose.
 
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I think you hit the nail on the head exactly. I also told him that I was free on Sunday and showing the car that day. I guess maybe I should of spelled it out exactly. " We have an appointment for Tuesday, but I am still going to show the car in the mean time. First with cash in hand gets it."

I gave him the chance to come on the day I sold it...

Like you all have said, live and learn, I'll need to be more descriptive in my ads.

===============================================================================(sorry quote function broke)


Ok, then it doesn't sound like you said 'I accept' when you had the negotiation.

I personally won't put anything more in the ad. Just be as clear as possible with each party. (too many conditions and rules in the ad may be a turn off to some)
If the first person in can come in a reasonable time frame (say by 48hrs), I typically may hold for them ... there is two-sided value to first looker.. I think it works well to my advantage with the buyer knowing they have the first shot and I think I can a good price that way... and very frequently sell to the first looker.
 
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Money talks.
I had a guy once came to look at a pickup that I had for sale (on the first day that I put it out.) After trying to low ball me on it, he asked me to hold it for him until he could make a decision.
I told him that I would hold it for whoever put cash money in my hand.
He showed up 30 days later (I sold the truck after the third day for asking price) and announced that he decided to buy the truck.
People play games (Especially on CL.) It is first come first served.
 
I had one guy say he was a priest and with his modest paycheck he could only afford a fraction of the price I was asking. I didn't even respond back to him.
 
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
You snooze, and you lose.

Just sold a house (through a realtor), first set of buyers dragged their feet, finally made an acceptable offer contingent upon a bunch of house inspectors getting in to see the place. Before they could schedule those appointments with the inspectors, another buyer swooped in, gave a written offer for the same amount with only one standard inspection to be done. Inspector came the next morning, and we went into contract.

The original buyers were not happy, but as has been written-- You snooze, and you lose.



Being first with the cash isn't fool proof. The very first house (sale by owner) I put a deposit on to buy back in 1992 ($1,000 check handed to the seller - and a contract signed by both of us with no contingencies or additional inspections) was later reneged on by his girlfriend (ie his realtor...lol). They returned my check and told me they had higher offers. Actually, the girlfriend was furious that he tried to sell the house without her...lol. I told them to shove it where the sun don't shine. So much for deposits and contracts. You can be first....and still lose to the crooks. If that guy married that woman....I hope he got what he deserved.

Well yeah. If the OP keeps updating the situation, the original agreement is modified or nullified. These days I make sure I can go home with the item as I don't trust anyone. If I can't take it home, I don't put down a deposit of any type.
 
^ Why not to date a realtor and sounds like your typical one.
smile.gif


That dummy should have told her what he did after title transferred. And that would be the end of that relationship.
 
This "buyer" had not put any money to hold it, so you are ok with what you did.

My brother in law, who sold used cars always said: "Cash talks, [censored] walks!" End of story.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Being first with the cash isn't fool proof. The very first house (sale by owner) I put a deposit on to buy back in 1992 ($1,000 check handed to the seller - and a contract signed by both of us with no contingencies or additional inspections) was later reneged on by his girlfriend (ie his realtor...lol). They returned my check and told me they had higher offers. Actually, the girlfriend was furious that he tried to sell the house without her...lol.


Isn't that a violation of the contract? I suppose at that point you wouldn't want to deal with them, they might trash the place to spite you--but you could have taken them to court, no?
 
As mentioned, the angry would-be buyer had no skin in the game.

I can't tell you how many times I've had an item for sale in a classified, and had people ask me to hold the item until THEY can take a look at it, and then likely not buy it anyway. Meanwhile, I'm supposed to ignore other potential buyers that might be more serious? I don't think so.

These days I'm just as likely to throw something away, rather than deal with idiots that think my life and the selling of my items, should revolve around their schedule and whims.

The angry potential buyer is not your concern. An item for sale in a classified Ad is: First one with the cash is the new owner.
 
What would have happened if you passed on the cash in hand deal and the first guy you spoke with decided he didn't want the car? Would he somehow find you another buyer? LOL IMO you did the right thing and I wouldn't lose on second of sleep worrying about it. Run that story by a sales manager at a car dealership, and they'll tell you they'd fire you for turning away a real customer in house with a deposit for a maybe wanna buy phone up [who didn't even see the car] and left no deposit.
 
Originally Posted By: Huie83
I Posted a vehicle on craigslist last Tuesday. That night and over the next day I emailed back and forth with a guy that seemed interested and he offered me a price contingent on him coming to take a look at the vehicle and it checking out per my description. I gave him some days I was open for showings, he couldn't make it until the following Tuesday evening as he is a few hours away. We set a time for Tuesday.

Yesterday someone local contacted me and showed up a few hours later cash in hand. I sold them the vehicle.

I contacted the guy that was scheduled to come look on Tuesday and he was REALLY ticked off. He expressed that he thought we had a deal and how i'm not a man of my word etc, etc. I explained to him that Craigslist is very competitive and you have to be ready cash in hand to see a car. No seller is going to hold a car over a email conversation hoping that the person actually shows up. I also explained that I gave him a earlier chance to come look a the car as I was actively showing it, but he was out of town at a family event...

I don't think I did anything wrong, he didn't put money down to hold it and I never said I would, but I wanted to get some outside opinions from you guys/gals, Opinions?


Let me clarify one point that isn't 100% clear by my original post. when I said "I gave him some days I was available for showings". I specifically told him I was showing the car on Sunday and Tuesday. That's when he replied that he couldn't make it until Tuesday and then asked what it would take to make a deal on Tuesday. I replied with the lowest number I was looking for, no " we've got a deal" or " i'll hold the car for you" etc.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
What would have happened if you passed on the cash in hand deal and the first guy you spoke with decided he didn't want the car? Would he somehow find you another buyer? LOL IMO you did the right thing and I wouldn't lose on second of sleep worrying about it. Run that story by a sales manager at a car dealership, and they'll tell you they'd fire you for turning away a real customer in house with a deposit for a maybe wanna buy phone up [who didn't even see the car] and left no deposit.


I would never use a car dealership of any type as the source for what ethical behavior is. Sales managers are the worst of them. They wouldn't have gotten that job if they couldn't stretch the truth or fool potential customers. The higher up you go, the worse it tends to be. One time the sales manager of a Dodge dealer came over to shake my hand for driving a hard deal with them to buy a car from them. I was smiling for about 10 seconds imagining driving that Dodge home at my price. Then the sales manager says: it's a deal...but....as long as I pay their original inflated asking price. I was outta there in a minute.

I recall taking a 4 hour drive to Webster, NY years ago to see a "numbers matching 1969 GTX convertible being sold by the owner of a new car dealership. It was his personal toy. I asked all the right questions and was told everything was perfect on condition, tags and numbers. It wasn't my first rodeo as looked at probably a hundred GTX's, Roadrunners, Coronet R/T's and Super Bees over a 10 yr stretch. Imagine my surprise when it turned out the car had no orig VIN tag (it had a reissued NY state sticker on the windshield that typically follows a recovered theft or vandalism), no fender or data tag, no VIN # stamping on the radiator support, and no observable VIN stamping on the engine or transmission. Nothing at all to prove the car was actually more than a cloned up GTX. A "no tag" car being sold as #'s matching. The car was a total mess too. Yup, trust your car dealers...LOL. That was a miserable ride home that evening.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
What would have happened if you passed on the cash in hand deal and the first guy you spoke with decided he didn't want the car? Would he somehow find you another buyer? LOL IMO you did the right thing and I wouldn't lose on second of sleep worrying about it. Run that story by a sales manager at a car dealership, and they'll tell you they'd fire you for turning away a real customer in house with a deposit for a maybe wanna buy phone up [who didn't even see the car] and left no deposit.


I would never use a car dealership of any type as the source for what ethical behavior is. Sales managers are the worst of them. They wouldn't have gotten that job if they couldn't stretch the truth or fool potential customers. The higher up you go, the worse it tends to be. One time the sales manager of a Dodge dealer came over to shake my hand for driving a hard deal with them to buy a car from them. I was smiling for about 10 seconds imagining driving that Dodge home at my price. Then the sales manager says: it's a deal...but....as long as I pay their original inflated asking price. I was outta there in a minute.

I recall taking a 4 hour drive to Webster, NY years ago to see a "numbers matching 1969 GTX convertible being sold by the owner of a new car dealership. It was his personal toy. I asked all the right questions and was told everything was perfect on condition, tags and numbers. It wasn't my first rodeo as looked at probably a hundred GTX's, Roadrunners, Coronet R/T's and Super Bees over a 10 yr stretch. Imagine my surprise when it turned out the car had no orig VIN tag (it had a reissued NY state sticker on the windshield that typically follows a recovered theft or vandalism), no fender or data tag, no VIN # stamping on the radiator support, and no observable VIN stamping on the engine or transmission. Nothing at all to prove the car was actually more than a cloned up GTX. A "no tag" car being sold as #'s matching. The car was a total mess too. Yup, trust your car dealers...LOL. That was a miserable ride home that evening.



I'm bringing up a point about leaving a deposit, and it carries over to other industries as well. Appliances, carpeting, furniture, etc. Money talks.........
 
I sold a mattress on CL. It was a full mattress that had sat in an unused guest bedroom for years (we were converting the room to a nursery for my pregnant wife). I had several people who wanted to come and see the mattress. I lined up two people one Saturday, one at 8AM and another at 9AM. The 9AM folks knew the 8AM guy might take it.

8AM decides he's going to stop and get an oil change (no email). 9AM folks show up and take the mattress. 8AM strolls up with ipad and Starbucks at 9:05AM as the other folks are carrying the mattress out the door. He emails me from his ipad to let me know I'm a total ****.
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE
I sold a mattress on CL. It was a full mattress that had sat in an unused guest bedroom for years (we were converting the room to a nursery for my pregnant wife). I had several people who wanted to come and see the mattress. I lined up two people one Saturday, one at 8AM and another at 9AM. The 9AM folks knew the 8AM guy might take it.

8AM decides he's going to stop and get an oil change (no email). 9AM folks show up and take the mattress. 8AM strolls up with ipad and Starbucks at 9:05AM as the other folks are carrying the mattress out the door. He emails me from his ipad to let me know I'm a total ****.
smile.gif



Maybe he realized his gross error, and was acknowledging his own character trait..

smile.gif
 
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