Wally-Mart TECH2000 Best 0w30?

[Ron AKA]

Have done a bit of research on the Canadian Walmart TECH2000, and as others have suggested it appears the 100% synthetic is made by Petro Canada. It also appears to stack up quite well. PetroCan uses the severe hydrocracking process to produce the Group III basestock. I would suggest it outperforms the mystical Castrol GC, and depending on your priorities, does quite well compared to Mobil 1 and Amsoil as well. Some observations:

1. Only TECH2000 and the Mobil 1 qualify to SM/GF-4 standards
2. TECH2000 has excellent low temperature performance, clearly better than Castrol GC and probably equal or better than Mobil 1 and Amsoil. They don't publish enough specs to tell for sure.
3. TECH2000 has the highest Flash Point.
4. No HTHS is given but since it meets GF-4 it is likely very close to 2.9. Amsoil comes in high at 3.4.
5. Amsoil has a very high VI which would seem to infer losts of additives to do it. TECH2000 is 170 which compares very favourably to Mobil 1. Castrol does not give a VI but it has to easily be the worst given the high 40C viscosity. I got that from the GC Forum so I hope that is right.

If anyone is interested in the PetroCan product, here is a link to their product catalogue. This is a good document with lots of information about the base oil refining process(Adobe page 30 of 210). They publish the specs on their base oil(178 of 210) as well as for the finished product (55 of 210). Good all around source of tech info on lubricants.

PetroCan Lubricants Handbook 2005

 

[Dominic]

So... who knows what additives it has or what TBN it has? I think it's probably a fine oil, but not anything amazing. Perhaps amazing for the dollar though!

 

[Ron AKA]

TBN (ASTM D2896) is 7.6. Price converted to US terms is about $4.38 US$/USqt. This compares to about $6.95 for Mobil 1 at Walmart. We pay more for oil in Canada! I can't see PetroCan giving Walmart a huge break in price, as PetroCan is a major player in the lubrication business here, and want to sell their own products as well. Complete specs for the PetroCan Synthetic are here. 5w30 looks good to me as well.

PetroCan Synthetic Specs

[ September 02, 2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Ron AKA ]

 

[BIRD DOG]

boy at least we clearly have numbers...

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Given the kinematic viscosity at 40C and 100C the viscosity index can be calculated. If GC has kv of 68.4 cSt at 40C and 12.1 cSt at 100C then the VI is approximately 177.

http://www.mehf.com/2.c.4.e.htm
http://www.shellglobalsolutions.teshosting.co.uk/calculations/blending_pop.asp

I don't believe that the 'actual' or 'typical' cranking viscosity of GC is 6200 cP at -35C. If you read the PDS closely, 6200 cP is simply the 'maximum' cranking viscosity for a 0wXX engine oil allowed by SAE J300.

The same goes for the low temperature pumping viscosity, 60000 cP is simply the maximum allowed for a 0wXX engine oil per SAE J300.

I'm not sure why Castrol is so stingy with their actual performance specs.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b...local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by flatlandtacoma:
Given the kinematic viscosity at 40C and 100C the viscosity index can be calculated. If GC has kv of 68.4 cSt at 40C and 12.1 cSt at 100C then the VI is approximately 177.
I don't believe that the 'actual' or 'typical' cranking viscosity of GC is 6200 cP at -35C. If you read the PDS closely, 6200 cP is simply the 'maximum' cranking viscosity for a 0wXX engine oil allowed by SAE J300.
The same goes for the low temperature pumping viscosity, 60000 cP is simply the maximum allowed for a 0wXX engine oil per SAE J300.
I'm not sure why Castrol is so stingy with their actual performance specs.

---

Ok, VI is better than I thought. I guess GC is just a heavier oil and doesn't need to go as low at 40C to have the higher VI. But, I still cannot help but wonder how well it does cold. Yes, they do appear to be posting the standard for CCV and MRV, rather than what they actually achieve. Other like PetroCan and Pennzoil post their actual values. I also wonder why Castrol is so guarded. I did find a bit more data at the Canadian site.
Castrol Canada 0w30 Specs

You can see they are using too much ZDDP to qualify for GF-4. Also, thanks for the good links. I've saved them all.

 

[BIRD DOG]

it cant be??? clearly the numbers must have been right i just ran out and dumped all my gc i hope this clears up i wont know what to do...

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BIRD DOG:
it cant be??? clearly the numbers must have been right i just ran out and dumped all my gc i hope this clears up i wont know what to do...

---

Don't worry... It's "only available in Canada? Pity!". For those that remember the Red Rose tea adverts!

Red Rose Tea

 

[rpn453]

I've been using that as my winter oil the last few years, so it must be the best!

It does allow for easy starts at low temps and has minimal consumption over the OCI, so I've been using it in three of the four vehicles I service. The Mazda3 is still under warranty, so I go with 0W-20 just to stick with Mazda's recommendation of using a 20wt. I'll likely go with 0W-30 once it's off warranty though, unless someone starts making a 0W-20 that's as good of a deal as that Tech2000 0W-30.

 

[oilyriser]

It's not A5 rated like synpower or syntec, and would probably not last 30,000 km like Amsoil or Esso XD-3. Maybe I'll use it for my next UOA and see if it shears. I used it a couple of times in my previous engine, back when it was $16 per 4.4L jug.

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rpn453:
I've been using that as my winter oil the last few years, so it must be the best!

---

Interesting that we seem to come to similar conclusions.

I think I'm outside the mfg recommendation limits already by using PP 0w20 in my M3. However this 0w30 is at the light end of the Xw30 range, so I may consider it, after my stock of PP 0w20 is gone. My thoughts were to use it in the kids Delta 88 and wife's Windstar. I may even go with the 5w30 in my F150 which I use for 5th wheel trailer pulling. It has had a steady diet of M1 5w30 since it was new. This stuff seems just as good. And it's Made in Canada eh!

[ September 02, 2006, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Ron AKA ]

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by oilyriser:
I used it a couple of times in my previous engine, back when it was $16 per 4.4L jug.

---

Sadly up to $22.64 now in Alberta. But there is some hope. I see gas is finally heading down, and there apparantly were some areas hitting $0.76/L in Ontario. Here in Alberta it is still in the 90's.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron AKA:
I did find a bit more data at the Canadian site.
Castrol Canada 0w30 Specs

---

I believe you found the American made Castrol 0w30 specs, not GC. If I'm wrong, the GC fanatics are gonna start freakin' out with that HTHS of 2.9.

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 427Z06:
I believe you found the American made Castrol 0w30 specs, not GC. If I'm wrong, the GC fanatics are gonna start freakin' out with that HTHS of 2.9.

---

Could be right. Don't know where you need to go to get the "right stuff", or if you did, where you would buy it. Somewhere I thought there was a theory that Cdn was different than US (even in color).

Found this link which appears to be the UK specs. I couldn't read enough German to get it direct from the German site. The numbers are similar but not identical to what I found on the Canadian site. SG was 0.839 compared to Cdn 0.847, 100C visosity was a bit higher at 12.2, and the 40C viscosity was actually given at 72, as well as viscosity index at 167 (slightly under the TECH2000 and Mobil 1). CCV was also given at 5800 rather than just stating the standard. Not as good as the TECH2000. Flash Point was significantly lower than the Cdn 225 at 212C.

No HTHS given. Agree that an HTHS of 2.9 would likely give the Europeans heart failure. Perhaps that is why they don't publish it? I see they do the "meets the requirements of API SM" trick and don't appear to actually qualify it . I guess you would need to see the bottle to know for sure.

Most of these could be just measurement error, except perhaps for the flash point which does seem to be more than error. In any case this does not look like any kind of special oil, and I would still suggest not as good as the Walmart TECH2000. I'm sure we could debate on the Mobil 1 and Amsoil for quite some time however, as they have their pros and cons.
UK Castrol Edge 0w30

 

[BlazerLT]

Still, why pay $4+ for a hydrocrack when you can still buy Esso 0w30 XD3 for less than US$4 and it is a true PAO synthetic?

[ September 03, 2006, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: BlazerLT ]

 

[avette]

---------------------------------

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlazerLT:
Still, why pay $4+ for a hydrocrack when you can still buy Esso 0w30 XD3 for less than US$4 and it is a true PAO synthetic?

---

Good point. I had not considered it, and have updated the chart to include the XD-3. I'm not sure if ESSO actually makes a synthetic. They sold it for some time under their own name, and now have stopped and just sell Mobil 1. There seems to be some similarity between the XD-3 and the Castrol 0w30. If ESSO is not making their own, I wonder if they are getting it from Castrol?

Overall though I still think the PetroCan out performs it, just like it does the Castrol. So the only question is the cost, is it cheap enough to sacrifice my catylitic converter, and have slightly less performance. I'm not hung up on the base oil origin, just performance.

 

[BlazerLT]

1.) Esso still makes the PAO synthetic.

2.) How can you say a Group 3 hydrocrack is going to beat a full PAO synthetic basestock based on some numbers you have thrown together in a chart. It is well known that a PAO will beat a hydrocrack any day.

You need to back down from the opinionated assumptions based on technical data.

Test the oil IN REAL LIFE instead of assuming so much from a grouping of numbers.

Also, if you think that the XD3 synthetic is going to kill a cat faster than the Tech2000, then I think you should relook over the numbers for them

Most 0w30's are high in ZDDP and the Tech2000 0w30 most likely has little difference.

 

[Ron AKA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlazerLT:
opinionated assumptions based on technical data.

---

This sounds like a bit of an oxymoron. Are you suggesting we ignore the manufacturer published technical data? If so why do we have all these ASTM and ILSAC standards?

If we compare the ESSO to the PetroCan, the PetroCan oil has a higher flash point. The ESSO viscosity is higher and the VI is poorer. So it is not surprising that the PetroCan oil has better low temperature performance. Agree that the XD-3 likely is loaded with ZDDP, and that is why it can't qualify to GF-4.

Like I say, I'm not hung up on base oil and assumed performance based on the base oil. Further I would suggest this ESSO oil likely is a blend with Group III in any case. All I'm interested in is actual performance.

 

[BIRD DOG]

put up a uoa if interested in real numbers!!!!