VTC actuator causing timing chain stretch?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Originally Posted By: gregk24

Already been to the dealer and they even acknowledged that they heard the VTC noise, but they wouldn't replaced it.


Then go to another dealer. If that doesn't get you anywhere, i'd call HOA


Neither will accomplish anything. Honda's corporate policy is that this noise is not harmful to the engine and all dealers have been instructed not to replace the actuator as the problem will just come right back before long. I own a Civic rather than an Accord, but I'm astonished at how widespread this problem is and how little publicity it has gotten. OTOH, the Accord continues to show excellent engine reliability in every study / survey so perhaps it is innocuous. I sure wouldn't be happy with it.

From what I've researched the problem tends to be the most severe is cold weather and after the car has sat a good number of hours or days, and is usually either eliminated or nearly so by the "ignition on" trick, which seems to not be working well for the OP. OP's case is about the most severe I've heard of and he's in Florida!
 
I'm trying to figure out how the actuator can put enough resistance on the cam to stretch the chain. That noise does sound nasty though, something has to be getting damaged in the process.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Here is a video of what it sounds like, this is the actuator going from one side to the other until the pen locks in place.
Whoa! I just watched the video, that is one awful noise! Almost sounds like a sticking starter.
 
Originally Posted By: Kool1
I wonder why the earlier K24 engines don't have this problem?


It started in about 2008 I believe, does that coincide with variable valve timing was implemented?
Civic Si engines are having the same issue. Honda just says it isn't harmful, they don't havea fix but are working on it (they've been saying that for a number of years).
 
Last edited:
Yes, disassemble the chain and measure the links. No stretching that I could ever measure from pin hole to pin hole. Now, measure the bushings/rollers/pins/bores(diameter and elongation).... and see what is really happening.

Chains do not stretch. They wear. If you don't believe it, find a chain manufacturer, get a job there, and learn how a chain works.

And, another source of slack is the gear wear. New chain, ol' gears, new gears ol' chain... just asking for cost cutting shortcut that won't last as long.
 
Originally Posted By: dlayman
Originally Posted By: Kool1
I wonder why the earlier K24 engines don't have this problem?


It started in about 2008 I believe, does that coincide with variable valve timing was implemented?
Civic Si engines are having the same issue. Honda just says it isn't harmful, they don't havea fix but are working on it (they've been saying that for a number of years).


Which problem? Chain wear or VTC actuator issues? I think there have been two separate issues, here, historically. When I had my 2008 CR-V, I did some reading on this. I thought the chain wear problem was on earlier engines, and corrected with a better chain (one that wasn't as prone to wear). I think the VTC actuator issue is a newer one, and likely particular to certain types of actuators. I don't think this issue is common in the CR-V world, and the Accord's K24 may use a different type/supplier of actuator compared with the CR-V's K24.

We often see, through recalls or certain repair campaigns, that a certain supplier's product is recalled due to either a manufacturing defect or a design defect particular to that product only. So it could be that only certain types or brands of actuators suffer this problem.

Or, I could be all wet, and maybe they're all subject to it. Nearly all K24 engines have had cam phasing (maybe all of them have), so most or all have actuators of some kind. Whether or not the one in Greg's engine is a different design or supplier compared with older ones, I don't know.
 
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Chains do stretch.

bJdfwJF.jpg


And yes, VTC actuator failure causes timing chain stretch. I also changed VTC actuator along with the timing chain and timing chain guides. You should go to dealer to see if it's covered by the warranty.


What are we supposed to see in the picture? I see the two chains staggered from each other, instead of having one pin lined up with the pin on the other chain so we can see that after a few links the pins don't line up. I put my calipers on the computer screen and measured between the pins for 4 links. The calipers still line up with the pin on the other chain. If it is indeed stretched, the picture doesn't show it.
confused2.gif
 
I assume they are hanging from a round piece of pipe or some other round object. Look at the bottom of the chains, if these were the same part# then one is stretched.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
I assume they are hanging from a round piece of pipe or some other round object. Look at the bottom of the chains, if these were the same part# then one is stretched.


Ah, Mr. Observant, that's me
blush.gif
. I was looking through the forest to see the trees. Indeed, if they were hanging from the same point, then the one on the right would appear to be longer, I missed that it was hanging slightly lower. Thank you!
 
The actuator noise is what I was referring to as having started about 2008. I believe the problems with timing chains in some CRV's are a separate issue. It just astounds me that the engineers at Honda have supposedly been working on a fix for eight years and come up blank. I tend to believe that the noise isn't harmful or we would be hearing about a lot of engine failures and we are not. That said, it would really bother me, and despite being a Honda fan I wouldn't buy a car with that engine.
 
He would the same guy who would tell you that when your disk brakes are shuddering it is NOT BECAUSE THE DISCS ARE WARPED :)

Whether the chain is stretched or worn, what difference does it make in if one calls it stretched or worn?
 
Originally Posted By: thrace
Maybe I should avoid this engine unless the problem gets solved. Back to Toyota?


Who knows really. I did plenty of research before I purchased this Accord. The Camry's seem to have issues with the A/C, Sonata/Optima have issues with the engine recall, Passat has questionable long term reliability issues, Fusion and Malibu over lack of quality / build quality....the Accord is just the best fit for me. I did know about this issue, but I didn't know it was as widespread as it is. Honda is still saying that it wont damage anything, not sure it that is 100% true but we don't see any K24's blowing up, and certainly not on a regular basis. Time will tell, still hoping they roll out a fix soon!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LeakySeals
Blend door actuator does not respond to hot/cold knob
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
jws555
F
Need Some HVAC Advice 2003 Suburban
2
Replies
23
Views
836
Fitz98
JTK
My 2019 Nissan with timing chain issues
2
Replies
35
Views
3K
MalibuRam65
GMBoy
Infinity QX80 P0011 - help/opinions requested
Replies
8
Views
306
GMBoy
JHZR2
Setting injection timing - accounting for timing chain wear
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
Trav
Back
Top