Victory is going racing.

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Read my reply to BigCahuna, from earlier today.

I never stated the V-twins dominate due to superior design. They do so because the powers that be view the idea of appealing to V-Twin fans as a way to put the most paying fans in the stands.

So the PSM regulations are "adjusted" to help ensure that goal..
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Once again Victory is trying to copy a idea Harley had first. All they need to do is either have an original idea, or finish.,,

When did Harley ever race an electric bike?

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Harley didn't copy the idea of racing, they dominated it.

Harley got whipped in road racing......

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It must break the hearts of guys that can't quite afford a Harley, and had to settle for second place.

A Victory Magnum and the Indian Chieftian both cost more than a Street Glide. If they can afford those bikes, why couldn't they afford a Harley?

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So even if victory makes a fast electric bike, nobody wants absolute silence when their riding. Maybe victory can make a radio that makes motorcycle sounds, so you don't feel like your riding a vacuum cleaner.,,

You are aware Harley has an Electric bike. Is that a fail for Harley?

BigCahuna claims he's not concerned about Polaris and other brands, yet he feels compelled to make things up to discredit them.,,,,
 
Harley had an electric bike first. I guess you didn't know that. Whipped in road racing? What did victory ever win? BTW Whose talking about indians? Do a little research before you say I "make things up".How do you figure victory has done anything significant in the motorcycle world ,especially racing when they're one of the newest companies to get in the game? I never claimed anything about polaris . Don't they make snowmobiles? It doesn't matter, the first time there's a drop in sales victory will probably be dropped from production. Why would polaris keep trying to compete with itself?.,,
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Harley had an electric bike first. I guess you didn't know that. Whipped in road racing? What did victory ever win? BTW Whose talking about indians? Do a little research before you say I "make things up".How do you figure victory has done anything significant in the motorcycle world ,especially racing when they're one of the newest companies to get in the game? I never claimed anything about polaris . Don't they make snowmobiles? It doesn't matter, the first time there's a drop in sales victory will probably be dropped from production. Why would polaris keep trying to compete with itself?.,,


More than one company beat Harley to the electric bike....so again..Harley and Victory are doing the same thing...COPYING.

Harley hagiography just baffles me. Their products are okay, and only really their marketing is truly genius. Probably the best thing since "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" promotions of the 60's that helped almost put Harley(and did put BSA, Triumph, and Norton) out of business.
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Harley had an electric bike first. I guess you didn't know that.

I did know that. Did you know they weren't the first? Does your criticism of Victory copying Harley apply to Harley for copying others?

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Whipped in road racing? What did victory ever win?

Yes, Whipped in road racing. Google the VR1000. I've never made any claims about Victory's racing success. They're a new company, and I'm applauding them for taking to the track. The same way I applauded Harley for going road racing 25 years ago.

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
BTW Whose talking about Indians? Do a little research before you say I "make things up".

I've done my research. Maybe you should too.,,,

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
How do you figure victory has done anything significant in the motorcycle world ,especially racing when they're one of the newest companies to get in the game?

Nobody in this thread has made any claims about Victory's significance, but you felt compelled to discredit them.

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I never claimed anything about polaris . Don't they make snowmobiles? It doesn't matter, the first time there's a drop in sales victory will probably be dropped from production. Why would polaris keep trying to compete with itself?.,,

You've never made claims about Polaris and they're brands? Sales dropped significantly in 2008, and Victory is still here. Victory and Indian can happily coexist, and you're still convinced you don't make things up?

Here's a shovel, can you dig it?
 
Harley didn't just build one bike as a proto type. They actually are positioning themselves to mass produce it. That's the big difference. They can send a truck full of them around the country for people to test ride. What other company has done that? And if you want to compare Honda's vehicle sales numbers, drop all the bikes under 900 cc's off the list, as well as lawnmowers, mopeds, and jetskis. When Harley decided to quit playing around with scooters and golf carts, they concentrated on building one product line. And if you notice they don't really advertise that much, and have pretty good sales of heavy weight motorcycles. And no other motorcycle maker has as strong a dealer support network. Most metric bike dealers HAVE to depend on multiple brand sales to keep their doors open. always have. Even with all the magazines doing and giving rave reviews of every motorcycle brand other then Harley, why is it Harley is doing better then ever?.,,
 
Harley is making three bikes under 900cc now...guess we will have to discredit all of those bikes sales too. So no counting the new small revolution engines or the old Evo 883.

And that link to 300 million did not include lawnmowers and jetskis.


Harley quit playing around with small bikes because they were junk Aeromacchi bikes rebadged. Harley did not even make them. The genuine attempts at small Harleys was equally disastrous.


BTW...around here there are MANY metric bike dealers only selling one brand of motorcycle. How about you just stop bashing other brands who do very well domestically and internationally? Are you so insecure in your own brand choice you have to tear down every other make to feel superior?
 
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Originally Posted By: Atesz792
I'm just gonna leave these here:
4 millionth Harley sold in '12
300 millionth Honda sold in '14


I think what I am about to state is a fair statement. First let me say I have owned Metric (Asian) bikes for the last 8 years, so I think my statement is balanced. I was never a "Harley" guy but bought my first, brand new 2014 "Rushmore" Road King in August of 2014.

Im proud Harley is an American Corporation, this bike has blown me away, MATERIALS, FIT and FINISH are awesome and way above the Asian/Metric brands in the cruiser market. Throttle response, handling, tracking, amaze me. I do, now, without question, understand owning a HARLEY.

Im glad Harley has held its ground in this country, Im also glad it is a dream bike come true to people overseas that can buy one.

Ok, but back to the topic I quoted above. Im proud that, I think maybe for the first time in our history, an American company, Harley Davidson has held back the metric brands, many of which, unable to compete in the USA are abandoning the large cruiser market and have slashed prices on a regular basis just to get units off the showroom floor.

Harleys price tag is not outrageous for what you get and the metrics have been unable to sell their products at prices close to Harley so are forced to discount.
Keep in mind, these HUGE ASIAN CORPORATIONS HAVE OPERATING BUDGETS TEN TIMES AND HIGHER OVER HARLEY. THEY MAKE BOATS, LAWNMOWERS, GENERATORS, MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, in the case of Honda, motorcycles are just a small piece of the pie now and their traditional cruisers have been devastated in the last decade by bad decisions in design. (translated, they dont sell)

With all the Above said, the little tiny AMERICAN OWNED Harley Davidson sells more motorcycles over 600 cc's in the United States of America, then EVERY motorcycle maker in the world. Pretty darn impressive.

Anyway, no big deal, just nice to say a cheer for Americans for a change.... and yes, competition is good for all.
 
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Of course you seem to forget that these Victory and Indian bikes, although called "metric" are assembled in Storm Lake Iowa USA. And their parent company Polaris is based in Minnesota.

And I think that is what really chaffs the Harley hagiography crowd...the fact there are other American alternatives now. From the closure of Indian in the 1950's till Polaris started Victory in 1998, the "company" had a monopoly on the buy American crowd.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Of course you seem to forget that these Victory and Indian bikes, although called "metric" are assembled in Storm Lake Iowa USA. And their parent company Polaris is based in Minnesota.

And I think that is what really chaffs the Harley hagiography crowd...the fact there are other American alternatives now. From the closure of Indian in the 1950's till Polaris started Victory in 1998, the "company" had a monopoly on the buy American crowd.


Not sure if you were replying to me because Im not "one of them in the Harley crowd"
Its good that there are other American brands now and in no way do I look at Polaris as anything but an American company not at all as a metric. True, they are not an exclusive motorcycle maker, from jetskis, to snowmobiles to ATVs and generators.

Choice and competition are very good for the consumer.
Harley never had a monopoly, they just built a brand that other companies could not compete against and the jury is still out if anyone else can compete. The Victory line is struggling big time. I suspect the racing is a way to try to pick things up.

I was just replying, stating a fact in regard to the other post that seemed to make "lite" of the fact of Harley building only 4 million motorcycles against Honda. Many Honda motorcycles are small moped type bikes sold in every country in the world. Thats pretty impressive, the gap is closing slightly in any given year, but my god, still very impressive.

Anyway, as I said its cool, that Harley sells more motorcycles in the United States over 600cc then every motorcycle maker in the world combined.

One other non related thing, I have noticed, being a member of metric bikes forums for 8 years now, its interesting that the biggest bashing comes from the metric bike crowd, go to the Harley forums, they talk bikes, and I cant say with honesty if I ever saw anyone in a Harley forum bashing a metric bike.

To put things in perspective ... Heavy Weight Market Percentage
 
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Originally Posted By: sunruh
who else has been to the kawaski plant in lincoln, nebraska?
is that in the usa?


Yes, without question and the profits, corporate taxes, engineering, go to/are developed in Japan also, further development of products to compete with us. Again, the consumer benefits.

Much like APPLE products are ALL produced by slave labor in China but Apple and Americans get the benefit. Maybe someday we can be like China, have overseas companies build everything here, like China? Doesnt sound as good for the American worker though.
( you do know, I am just talking here, bringing up points) *L* but you got to admit, some make good sense. For a country to be strong, it needs to produce and export quality products/compete not just have overseas plants open here to produce products.

I am sure Apple plant workers in China rather have the high paying Apple jobs in California
 
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That is not necessarily true. You forget that Harley was scared stiff of the Japanese cruisers like the Yamaha Virago when they first came out. So frightened for survival they lobbied congress to slap massive import tariffs on large displacement bikes to discourage their sales. At that time the market share for import bikes was around 70%. It was only through stacking the deck against the competition that they were able to return to profitability.

And I said they had a monopoly on the "Buy American" crowd, as there were no other large scale American motorcycle producers for over 40 years.
 
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Harley also voluntarily withdrew the tariffs before the 5 year deadline, and paid off the loan with interest early. And aren't we glad they got the tariff enforced and returned an American company back to profitability?
 
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