How about an HDEO? Motorcraft has a 10w 30 and there is always rotella t-6 5w 40.
Varnish Treatment
- Thread starter Spetz
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
There is no way the top two recommended and coveted syn oils here are spent/saturated in a 2,000 - 3,000 mile change. Doing a few changes like that does nothing but thins your wallet.
Sludge takes time to collect and it takes time to dissolve. I have seen the insides of many an engine, so I have a "rough" idea. That said, I like AutoRx - IMO, it's a good product. It is MADE to clean sludge and the recommended change interval is 2,000 miles when used with conventional and 3,000 miles with synthetic.
Synthetics (GrIII, and IV) have a lower solvency due to the elimination, or lack of polar molecules that are present with GrI/II. They will saturate with varnish sludge quite early on, and won't keep cleaning the longer you leave them in.
For interest, I was the sponsor of an Engineering undergraduate thesis into varnish/sludge formation, removal, and detection using patch colorimetry...I've seen first hand how GrII "falls off the wall" in handling existing varnish and sludge.
Seeing as how these oils are the sum of their parts, not just the base oil, I'll stay with saying changing out Mobil 1 or PP at 2-3K miles to try and "clean" is an absolute waste. Worldwide seems to think they're acceptable for holding the cleaning AutoRx does for the 3,000 miles. They are certainly not spent by themselves during the same interval.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
There is no way the top two recommended and coveted syn oils here are spent/saturated in a 2,000 - 3,000 mile change. Doing a few changes like that does nothing but thins your wallet.
Sludge takes time to collect and it takes time to dissolve. I have seen the insides of many an engine, so I have a "rough" idea. That said, I like AutoRx - IMO, it's a good product. It is MADE to clean sludge and the recommended change interval is 2,000 miles when used with conventional and 3,000 miles with synthetic.
Synthetics (GrIII, and IV) have a lower solvency due to the elimination, or lack of polar molecules that are present with GrI/II. They will saturate with varnish sludge quite early on, and won't keep cleaning the longer you leave them in.
For interest, I was the sponsor of an Engineering undergraduate thesis into varnish/sludge formation, removal, and detection using patch colorimetry...I've seen first hand how GrII "falls off the wall" in handling existing varnish and sludge.
Seeing as how these oils are the sum of their parts, not just the base oil, I'll stay with saying changing out Mobil 1 or PP at 2-3K miles to try and "clean" is an absolute waste. Worldwide seems to think they're acceptable for holding the cleaning AutoRx does for the 3,000 miles. They are certainly not spent by themselves during the same interval.
I just had a peek at Mobil's site. Their cleaning example has a severely sludged Chryco 2.7L that was nearly cleaned in a 4,000 mile interval (* Your results may vary LOL). If the group III was able to handle that, to the point that it was used as an example on their site, then why would someone recommend a 2-3,000 mile interval for cleaning varnish? It doesn't make economic sense.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
In engines, I have no doubt that synthetics, even at moderately long OCIs prevent sludge and varnish, through their great oxidation resistance, but when they crash, they crash big time.
So do you think a quality synthetic could make it to 5,000 miles without drying out and causing varnish ?
In engines, I have no doubt that synthetics, even at moderately long OCIs prevent sludge and varnish, through their great oxidation resistance, but when they crash, they crash big time.
So do you think a quality synthetic could make it to 5,000 miles without drying out and causing varnish ?
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Spetz
Is the Shell brand of oil more potent at cleaning than other brands?
What you need is a high mileage oil with all the extra detergents in it. Can you get MaxLife in Australia ?
Is this Valvoline?
I haven't seen it but maybe it is under a different name here?
EDIT:
And is a high mileage oil necessary if I am using something like Auto RX?
Originally Posted By: Spetz
Is the Shell brand of oil more potent at cleaning than other brands?
What you need is a high mileage oil with all the extra detergents in it. Can you get MaxLife in Australia ?
Is this Valvoline?
I haven't seen it but maybe it is under a different name here?
EDIT:
And is a high mileage oil necessary if I am using something like Auto RX?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Spetz
EDIT:
And is a high mileage oil necessary if I am using something like Auto RX?
Forget the AutoRx. These high mileage oils work plenty well by themselves.
EDIT:
And is a high mileage oil necessary if I am using something like Auto RX?
Forget the AutoRx. These high mileage oils work plenty well by themselves.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
yes, absolutely.
Is that the answer to my question or Spetz's question ?
yes, absolutely.
Is that the answer to my question or Spetz's question ?
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Sorry, yours Merkava...any decent synthetic in a clean to start engine will stay clean at those intervals.
OK good..........Thank you sir.
Sorry, yours Merkava...any decent synthetic in a clean to start engine will stay clean at those intervals.
OK good..........Thank you sir.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: domer10
Few oci of 2000-3000 miles with Mobil 1 or PP removed light varnish from previous vehicles for me.
This is a waste of quality synthetics to me.
As I've posted numerous times before, oil doesn't magically stop working at 2,000 miles. Heck, the add pack has only begun to be fully activated.
What part of it worked don't u understand, i don't care if it was a waste, it worked, I don't know when the ad pack starts or stops, but i wanted it clean....3 short changes worked. So it had more life, i didn't know, nor was i going to chance it. Wasn't a waste for me.
Originally Posted By: domer10
Few oci of 2000-3000 miles with Mobil 1 or PP removed light varnish from previous vehicles for me.
This is a waste of quality synthetics to me.
As I've posted numerous times before, oil doesn't magically stop working at 2,000 miles. Heck, the add pack has only begun to be fully activated.
What part of it worked don't u understand, i don't care if it was a waste, it worked, I don't know when the ad pack starts or stops, but i wanted it clean....3 short changes worked. So it had more life, i didn't know, nor was i going to chance it. Wasn't a waste for me.
Last edited:
Hey man, it's your money and if you're satisfied, that's cool beans. Like I said though, to me , $80.00 to remove light varnish that could have been potentially cleaned with one change is a waste.
If you come into this situation next time, perhaps you could try a 6,000 mile interval and report the difference. If it's the same, then all the better for you.
If you come into this situation next time, perhaps you could try a 6,000 mile interval and report the difference. If it's the same, then all the better for you.
I did two OCI's back to back with Maxlife. Each OCI was only 1700 miles long.
After those two OCI's, the Pennzoil varnish was completely removed from all metal parts.
After those two OCI's, the Pennzoil varnish was completely removed from all metal parts.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I did two OCI's back to back with Maxlife. Each OCI was only 1700 miles long. After those two OCI's, the Pennzoil varnish was completely removed from all metal parts.
How do you know it wouldn't have cleaned in one 3400 mile interval? Just because it works, doesn't mean it's best.
Do you have any pictures from the engine tear down? How did you verify all the metal parts were clean?
I did two OCI's back to back with Maxlife. Each OCI was only 1700 miles long. After those two OCI's, the Pennzoil varnish was completely removed from all metal parts.
How do you know it wouldn't have cleaned in one 3400 mile interval? Just because it works, doesn't mean it's best.
Do you have any pictures from the engine tear down? How did you verify all the metal parts were clean?
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
How do you know it wouldn't have cleaned in one 3400 mile interval? Just because it works, doesn't mean it's best.
Do you have any pictures from the engine tear down?
The intent was to go 4 months on the OCI. It just so happened to come out at 1700 miles.
The oil was very dark and the end of 4 months after dissolving all that varnish.
Engine tear down ? Why would I need to tear the engine down ?
How do you know it wouldn't have cleaned in one 3400 mile interval? Just because it works, doesn't mean it's best.
Do you have any pictures from the engine tear down?
The intent was to go 4 months on the OCI. It just so happened to come out at 1700 miles.
The oil was very dark and the end of 4 months after dissolving all that varnish.
Engine tear down ? Why would I need to tear the engine down ?
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The intent was to go 4 months on the OCI. It just so happened to come out at 1700 miles. The oil was very dark and the end of 4 months after doing all that cleaning.
OK. That's cool.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Engine tear down ? Why would I need to tear the engine down ?
I rebuild engines and was curious how you verified everything was clean. Given your response, I'll take a gander you looked through the fill hole, which is cool. Historically, your posts have had concern regarding change intervals and varnish. Poor engine design aside, modern conventional can go the distance and as an example, my wife's Maxx has had conventional 5W30 it's entire life, many times Supertech, and the head under the fill cap is brand new clean inside. The rockers are also spotless. The interval is typically 6500-7500 miles depending on the season.
The intent was to go 4 months on the OCI. It just so happened to come out at 1700 miles. The oil was very dark and the end of 4 months after doing all that cleaning.
OK. That's cool.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Engine tear down ? Why would I need to tear the engine down ?
I rebuild engines and was curious how you verified everything was clean. Given your response, I'll take a gander you looked through the fill hole, which is cool. Historically, your posts have had concern regarding change intervals and varnish. Poor engine design aside, modern conventional can go the distance and as an example, my wife's Maxx has had conventional 5W30 it's entire life, many times Supertech, and the head under the fill cap is brand new clean inside. The rockers are also spotless. The interval is typically 6500-7500 miles depending on the season.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Hey man, it's your money and if you're satisfied, that's cool beans. Like I said though, to me , $80.00 to remove light varnish that could have been potentially cleaned with one change is a waste.
If you come into this situation next time, perhaps you could try a 6,000 mile interval and report the difference. If it's the same, then all the better for you.
I'm currently in the same situation, just got my m3, and its got some brown/reddish varnish in there, i just drain/filled with mobil 1 0w40, it was running castrol for the 60k kilometres so 36 mi on castrol, I was gonna do same but maybe I will extend it out this time to see, Yes in a way it is a waste if i could get same results running it double, but my thinking was that the oil gets so saturated quickly with whatever was in there that it would stop working a lot sooner, or reintroduce varnish cause it could not absorb any more.
Hey man, it's your money and if you're satisfied, that's cool beans. Like I said though, to me , $80.00 to remove light varnish that could have been potentially cleaned with one change is a waste.
If you come into this situation next time, perhaps you could try a 6,000 mile interval and report the difference. If it's the same, then all the better for you.
I'm currently in the same situation, just got my m3, and its got some brown/reddish varnish in there, i just drain/filled with mobil 1 0w40, it was running castrol for the 60k kilometres so 36 mi on castrol, I was gonna do same but maybe I will extend it out this time to see, Yes in a way it is a waste if i could get same results running it double, but my thinking was that the oil gets so saturated quickly with whatever was in there that it would stop working a lot sooner, or reintroduce varnish cause it could not absorb any more.
IMO, it's all about getting the most for your effort. Sorry if I seemed like a dink. I'm just trying to help.
- Status
