Vacuum gauge: "rough" idle

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Hi,

I just bought a vacuum gauge and tested the manifold vacuum on my 1997 Volvo S40 2.0L petrol engine (normally aspirated). This engine is a 4cyl 1998ccm with 140hp and has now 335000km (208K miles).

I brought the engine to operating temp and then hooked up the vacuum gauge on a free inlet manifold port, and here are the results (in inches of Hg):

- Idle: fluctuates between 17-19"
- throttle blip: almost goes down to 0" and then up to 25" before going back to idle (17-19")
- when keeping revs around 2000rpm, I get around 20" vacuum but the reading is very steady (steadier than at idle)!

First thing to note is that my area has an elevation of about 720m (2300 feet) above sea levels. According to some websites, any elevation of 1000 feet will cause of lower reading by about 1"Hg. According to this, my engine would thus produce 19-21" vacuum at idle at sea level (which is to be compared to the usual 18-22" for a healthy engine).

So I guess my engine is still in pretty good shape after 208K miles! However I do wonder about the slightly fluctuating vacuum reading at idle which becomes steady when revs are increased. AFAIK this could be a sign of worn valve guides..... Therefore a few questions:

- Do you think that a very rapid fluctuation of about 1.5" at idle that totally disappear when reving the engine is a sign of worn valve guides or would worn valve guides produces wider fluctuations?

- I used a plastic hose to attach my gauge to the engine. This hose was fairly long and about 5mm diameter. Is this possible the fluctuation may be caused by the "excessive" width of the hose?? Do vacuum gauge normally come with a hose featuring only a very small hole in it to port vacuum??

Thanks for any comment!
 
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If you google on vacuum gauge automotive or similar key words you can find more than several charts to interpret vacuum readings. Been a while since I had those charts up, but best I recall everything in your situation seems okay, but maybe the variability at idle means something, though it does not seem like enough variation to matter. I suspect you are in good shape.
 
Yes actually many websites explain that rapid fluctuations at idle that vanish when revving up the engine are caused by worn valve guides. However most of these websites mention that the magnitude of the variation is about 5 inches. Since I get about 1 or max 2 inches of variation, I guess I'm safe but that may still mean that the valve guides are tired....
 
You may be onto something with the hose.Many engines engines have this phenomenon especially smaller 4 cyl.

I know Motorcycle sync gauges many times have a small restriction or damper valves to prevent this fluctuation
It seems to depend on manifold style and vacuum port location.

You could insert a smaller diameter hose in line to dampen the gauge a little.1 or 2 inches variation is a small amount an may not necessarily indicate bad guides.

Any oil smoke when you start it cold?
 
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Originally Posted By: kilou
Yes actually many websites explain that rapid fluctuations at idle that vanish when revving up the engine are caused by worn valve guides. However most of these websites mention that the magnitude of the variation is about 5 inches. Since I get about 1 or max 2 inches of variation, I guess I'm safe but that may still mean that the valve guides are tired....



You can't really interpret vacuum gauge readings in... a vacuum (I slay myself sometimes...) :p

You need to know a bit about the engine. Depending on the cam design (open/close event timing, duration, and overlap) the variation you see at idle might be perfectly normal for a brand new engine.
 
Right. A lot depends on the gauge or it's dampening, and of course where it is tapped in . And if one cylinder/runner is affecting the gauge more than the others, you will get fluctuations at idle.
But this car with a 4 cyl seems fine and normal.

Vacuum gauges are useful, but only for very general observations.
You would have other symptoms if there really was a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A lot depends on the gauge or it's dampening,


At Carter Carburetor, when a new vacuum gauge was put into service, we'd first install a damper in the hose barb fitting on the bottom of the gauge. The damper was a piece of lead shot hammered firmly into place and then drilled with a .020" drill bit. With the damper in place, gauge readings at idle, even on engines with lots of cam overlap, were steady. The needle bounce you are seeing at idle may be due to your gauge having no damper.
 
You seem to be right. I tried again by simply pinching the hose slightly near the vacuum port on the manifold...and got a steady 18" Hg at idle! So the engine appears healthy, especially for a 208K miles old one. Will install a damper valve in the hose next time. Thanks a lot for your help.

As a side note, a got a weird performance improvement after the vacuum test. Obviously I wasn't expecting that but the car felt more responsive and torquey. In fact before connecting the vacuum gauge on the manifold port, I had to remove a protective cap..and thus create and temporary vacuum leak. I guess this has told the ECU to enrich the air/fuel mixture since the car was running lean with the leak. But then when putting the cap back on, maybe the ECU remained in a somewhat enriched mode for a while, which caused slightly better perf. Does this make sense at all?? I guess ECU constantly update the air/fuel ratio but it's true I always felt my car was running slightly underpowered (almost since new in fact) without apparent cause. Could this pinpoint an issue with the ECU software???
 
I go home to Germany every year and ride my bike for a few weeks through the Swiss,Austrian and Italian alps.
The altitude effects the performance greatly,the bike feels sluggish.
There are lots of tuners in Switzerland that can tweak the ECM a little to give back what's being lost.
 
For performance try advanced timimg and premium fuel.

If you have an automatic tranny, a kit to firm up the shifting will help performance.

Other than that, put a supercharger on it!
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

There are lots of tuners in Switzerland that can tweak the ECM a little to give back what's being lost.


Would you have a few names for these? I know Superchips but they are quite expensive...

A supercharger is not really an option unfortunately. The problem is my manual gearbox holds only 200Nm...and my stock engine already produces 183Nm so I'm quite close to the safe limit...
 
Try these.I believe D&W also has a werkstatt and maybe able to tune the ECM.

RCP-Tuning

Tuning und Werkstatt

Schwandenweg 5
8833 Samstagern/ZH

Tel.: +41 (0)44 201 94 94
Fax: +41 (0)44 687 46 37
[email protected]

Autotuning by G. Barone
St.Galler Str. 44
9303 Wittenbach SG

Telefon 071 244 39 77
Fax 071 244 39 68
Mobil 079 674 75 17

Audi tuners but maybe able to point you in the right direction.

RS-Werkstatt GmbH

Gewerbezentrum Arova

Winterthurerstr. 702

8247 Flurlingen/ZH

Tel. 052 654 32 72
 
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