Using NON-Honda ATF in an Accord (successfully)

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Originally Posted By: meep
i posted a long long time ago about doing this in my ex-wife's crv and my accord. accord got mobil 1 atf + lubeguard. did fine but lost 1 mpg. crv transmission started failing after an otherwise flawless life 6 months later. stuck in gear, refusal to upshift, slam-shifts under hard throttle, which was only partially resolved by flushing back to Z1. We sold the CRV shortly afterwards. CRV got an import multi fluid, don't recall if it was maxlife or castrol... but I HAVE been bitten by this so be careful and swap it out at the first sign of trouble.

I only use amsoil in the honda AT's now, and REALLY like it.

Mike


I actually remembered your post and searched for it, but couldn't find it. It was the Maxlife! It was your post and this one here which made me stick with the Honda fluid. Yes, you two are in the overwhelming minority, but it just didn't seem worth the risk. It's worth noting that while some Honda transmissions are incredibly failure-prone, the CR-V transmission simply isn't.

As far as the Z-1 not being anything special, I'm going to take the SAE's word and Terry Dyson's over random guys on the internet; the fluid is significantly different (as is the Honda transmission). That doesn't make the fluid "better", as pretty much everyone agrees that the base stock of the fluid isn't suitable for the recommended drain intervals. It does make it suitable for the tranmission.

Lastly, I just don't think that "I've had the fluid in for 10K and everything is great" is evidence that it won't have a long-term deleterious effect. I'm not saying it will, I'm just saying that's not enough time to tell.

In the end it didn't seem worth it to me, though I don't think there's that much risk in using an alternative fluid.
 
The biggest reason people prefers to stay with Z1, other than being loyal to OEM for spec reason, is that many Honda transmissions early on have problem of harsh shifting running other fluids (like M1). Not that they are damaging the transmission, but they are different enough that people don't think they are working.

Back when Molakule had his own operation blending fluids, he has a special version for Z1 that include a "special ingredient" that most don't use (assuming that it is ZDDP). Later on when he no longer operates and we asked him (and probably also whitewolf, Terry Dyson, and others) why does Z1 have so much ZDDP and what does it do, he said that it is an old additive formula that would plug the newer non Honda friction material design that others no longer use (assume they went paper/carbon fiber and Honda stay with metallic or ceramic, etc).

It has been many year since the newer multi-vehicle additives show up and seems like most of them have no problem in Honda, so I would imagine all the bugs have been worked out by now. I'd stay away from putting Z1 in non Honda due to the ZDDP claims, but most MV fluid would be OK. Also not sure how is the friction properties of these MV ATF compare to Z1, and whether the older tranny adapt to different friction automatically or not.

My only problem with non Honda fluid is that some specific brand small boutique multi level marketed fluid vendor fanboys constantly claim that there is no risk and people are stupid for not using them, when in fact every time people stay away from factory spec (whether it is using this specific brand or and big oil brand MV ATF) the owner is taking a risk if something happen and warranty is involved. Then again, it is more of a sales and peer issue rather than the products' issue.

I'm wondering what is DW1 using, and whether it continues to use ZDDP or switch to a non ZDDP formula.
 
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Agree. Not smart to use non Honda ATF in your Honda. 1 Honda dealer(the one where I bought my car)does all the work,I don't do,on my '02 V6 Accord. That includes $6,000 in body work for the hits I take living in a big city. Should my AT go,then I'm in a better postion to ask for Honda to pick up part of the cost of a replacement Transmission.
 
I did an ATF flush on my sister's 05 Civic EX @ 80K using Chevron brand Dex III and a month later she called me that her transmission was shifting hard and hesitating. Flushed it again with Amsoil ATF and it fixed the problems immediately. 30K later it is still driving great.
 
Originally Posted By: teambeechstreet
I did an ATF flush on my sister's 05 Civic EX @ 80K using Chevron brand Dex III and a month later she called me that her transmission was shifting hard and hesitating. Flushed it again with Amsoil ATF and it fixed the problems immediately. 30K later it is still driving great.


Sweet. People will claim Amsoil ATF is Dexron only. But it really is living up to the claims of being great in Z1 apps.
 
The Z1 ATF I drained at 18k miles from the Fit was brown and nasty. The Fit weighs ~2600 lbs with a full tank of gas, is 117 hp with a 5-speed automatic. The Z1 should be just fine for that time frame in a 2600 lb car. Clearly it's something with the fluid if several different Honda models are reporting the same things.

I may try Maxlife ATF as it's available locally at $3.67+tax per quart, or half of what Z1 goes for around here.
 
I use Maxlife in a 2003 Acura MDX and it is night and day better then the Honda fluid. Tranny shifts smoother and the fluid looks like new every time I change it every 15K miles. The MDX has 130K miles and still going...
 
Sick of paying price for sub par Z1 fluid on my 06 pilot drained a filled ever 10K. Changed over to Redline D4 on my second drain fill and cound not be any happier no more hunting and smoother shifts when cold will drain and fill one more time before winter.
 
O. K. Here's another story for you. I was getting a battery at NTB years ago at about 50k and the tech told me the ATF was dirty. They drained and filled with a "synthetic" ATF that was "much better than Z1". 15k later,I'm recovering my little Bass Boat at the Ramp and my transmission begins to slip. I make it home 90 miles and take it to the Honda dealer and tell them I want a complete drain and refill of ATF. Viola!!!! Fixed it!!! I'm now at 109k Bass boat towing miles with my 02 Accord V6 and no more Slipping. So thanks to the "experts",but, I'll be staying with the Z1.
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
O. K. Here's another story for you. I was getting a battery at NTB years ago at about 50k and the tech told me the ATF was dirty. They drained and filled with a "synthetic" ATF that was "much better than Z1". 15k later,I'm recovering my little Bass Boat at the Ramp and my transmission begins to slip. I make it home 90 miles and take it to the Honda dealer and tell them I want a complete drain and refill of ATF. Viola!!!! Fixed it!!! I'm now at 109k Bass boat towing miles with my 02 Accord V6 and no more Slipping. So thanks to the "experts",but, I'll be staying with the Z1.


I bet it could have been syn did they say it was for Z1 application or did they say it's synthetic and think it's has to be better than Z1
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Dunno. I was in a hurry,was not aware of the ATF issue,at that time.


I don't think we can blame the fluid if we don't know if it was for for Z1 application or not. I don't think I would let some one drain and fill my AT without knowing what fluid was being used.
 
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
Should my AT go,then I'm in a better postion to ask for Honda to pick up part of the cost of a replacement Transmission.


Yep. That will happen on a ~9yr old Accord that tows a boat.

Joel
 
Not, "will happen". Could happen. So the right call for Honda owners is to use the oem spec Z1. Should an AT failure occur,you are in a better position to demand Honda pick up a portion of the cost of repair or replacement of the AT.
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Not, "will happen". Could happen. So the right call for Honda owners is to use the oem spec Z1. Should an AT failure occur,you are in a better position to demand Honda pick up a portion of the cost of repair or replacement of the AT.


Out of warranty not true................
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Not, "will happen". Could happen. So the right call for Honda owners is to use the oem spec Z1. Should an AT failure occur,you are in a better position to demand Honda pick up a portion of the cost of repair or replacement of the AT.


How is "could happen" even possible when you had NTB at one point use something other than Honda Z-1 in your Accord? Was that ATF even listed as "suitable for use where Honda ATF Z-1 is specified"?

Joel
 
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