Uh Oh... The Sludge Monster Is Real! 01 G. Caravan
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Nick1994
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Originally Posted By: Farmer
My shop vac vacuum tube is about 2.5 inches in diameter. I don't think it will be able to pull much out. Not much room to get in there.
You can duct tape a funnel to the end
My shop vac vacuum tube is about 2.5 inches in diameter. I don't think it will be able to pull much out. Not much room to get in there.
You can duct tape a funnel to the end
Originally Posted By: Farmer
I doubt it will get 5K in the next 3-4 years.
Then I wouldn't worry about it in the least. Put the valve cover back on, put in some decent oil and never touch it again. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken at this point.
I doubt it will get 5K in the next 3-4 years.
Then I wouldn't worry about it in the least. Put the valve cover back on, put in some decent oil and never touch it again. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken at this point.
Diesel in place of Kerosene will work for the solvent mixture.
Last one I had that looked similar was a 3.3L V6 Malibu... What I did was use a old vacuum cleaner that next stop was the curb to suck up the sludge I scraped loose(I did not want to take the chance compressed air would force particles inside engine)... I also removed the rockers and push rods for a thorough cleaning... Put it back together and ran it for 77K mi before selling it, often saw it around town for next three or four years...
Odd thing about that engine was pan was nearly spotless, I'd pulled it during the engine swap as orig was bent... found the mess under valve covers after I'd replaced pan...
Odd thing about that engine was pan was nearly spotless, I'd pulled it during the engine swap as orig was bent... found the mess under valve covers after I'd replaced pan...
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Farmer
I doubt it will get 5K in the next 3-4 years.
Then I wouldn't worry about it in the least. Put the valve cover back on, put in some decent oil and never touch it again. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken at this point.
A second on this.
It's going to bother you knowing that the sludge is in there, but don't make the problem worse. Any wear from the infrequent oil changes has happened and can't be undone. You are risking immediate damage from breaking loose the sludge, rather than slowly dissolving it into the oil over the next few years.
I advise doing oil changes at the lower end of the recommended interval. You don't need to drop down to 3K oil changes, unless that's all the driving you do in a single year.
Of course I don't follow my own advice. I would pick at the sludge like a scab. Do as I say, not as I do.
Originally Posted By: Farmer
I doubt it will get 5K in the next 3-4 years.
Then I wouldn't worry about it in the least. Put the valve cover back on, put in some decent oil and never touch it again. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken at this point.
A second on this.
It's going to bother you knowing that the sludge is in there, but don't make the problem worse. Any wear from the infrequent oil changes has happened and can't be undone. You are risking immediate damage from breaking loose the sludge, rather than slowly dissolving it into the oil over the next few years.
I advise doing oil changes at the lower end of the recommended interval. You don't need to drop down to 3K oil changes, unless that's all the driving you do in a single year.
Of course I don't follow my own advice. I would pick at the sludge like a scab. Do as I say, not as I do.
Just do a few short change oil change intervals.
Just out of curiosity why the QS/PP mix? Also, using a larger oil filter is going to have no effect on engine performance.
Just out of curiosity why the QS/PP mix? Also, using a larger oil filter is going to have no effect on engine performance.
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Farmer
I doubt it will get 5K in the next 3-4 years.
Then I wouldn't worry about it in the least. Put the valve cover back on, put in some decent oil and never touch it again. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken at this point.
I agree. If it's run all those years, it will continue. What is the point of stirring up all that c*ap. If it has reasonable oil pressure, don't mess with it. 2 things, the PCV valve and it's hose, and the thermostat. A stuck open stat will cause that sort of problem. Does it have any lifter rattle, if not the bottom end is clean. Personal experience. The valves are oiled via the pushrods.
Originally Posted By: Farmer
I doubt it will get 5K in the next 3-4 years.
Then I wouldn't worry about it in the least. Put the valve cover back on, put in some decent oil and never touch it again. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken at this point.
I agree. If it's run all those years, it will continue. What is the point of stirring up all that c*ap. If it has reasonable oil pressure, don't mess with it. 2 things, the PCV valve and it's hose, and the thermostat. A stuck open stat will cause that sort of problem. Does it have any lifter rattle, if not the bottom end is clean. Personal experience. The valves are oiled via the pushrods.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Just do a few short change oil change intervals.
Just out of curiosity why the QS/PP mix? Also, using a larger oil filter is going to have no effect on engine performance.
It's what I had left over in some opened bottles. I chose a larger filter because I knew the engine would have some gunk in it. But I didn't expect to see that much. So I wanted more filtering media.
Just do a few short change oil change intervals.
Just out of curiosity why the QS/PP mix? Also, using a larger oil filter is going to have no effect on engine performance.
It's what I had left over in some opened bottles. I chose a larger filter because I knew the engine would have some gunk in it. But I didn't expect to see that much. So I wanted more filtering media.
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Great advice, Oldmoparguy1, djb right on the money.
Don't mess with the sludge directly, let it slowly dissolve away, changing PYB at 3,000 miles or 3 months for a couple of years.
Don't mess with the sludge directly, let it slowly dissolve away, changing PYB at 3,000 miles or 3 months for a couple of years.
Originally Posted By: Farmer
I'm going to pick up a few more 51515s then. I can get them for like $5.91 or something.
Buy 31515s, they are the [censored] child of the 1515, nitrile adbv/bypass combo, otherwise good filter for the short oci's of 4-5k. Picked them up under 4 bucks at napa, on sale every time I'm there.
I'm going to pick up a few more 51515s then. I can get them for like $5.91 or something.
Buy 31515s, they are the [censored] child of the 1515, nitrile adbv/bypass combo, otherwise good filter for the short oci's of 4-5k. Picked them up under 4 bucks at napa, on sale every time I'm there.
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Does it have any lifter rattle, if not the bottom end is clean. Personal experience. The valves are oiled via the pushrods.
Not 100% correct. It only takes 6psi oil pressure to keep the lifter quiet but 6 psi isn't enough to protect the engine at anything above idle.
Not saying that's the case here but you will never know if the pickup is partially blocked and potentially starving the engine at speed.
The pressure sender is usually under 5 psi to keep the light out.
Frequent oil changes will not liquefy a lot of what get caught in the screen. Personally i couldn't sleep good without at least having a look see.
A partially blocked pickup that was starving the spool valve.
Does it have any lifter rattle, if not the bottom end is clean. Personal experience. The valves are oiled via the pushrods.
Not 100% correct. It only takes 6psi oil pressure to keep the lifter quiet but 6 psi isn't enough to protect the engine at anything above idle.
Not saying that's the case here but you will never know if the pickup is partially blocked and potentially starving the engine at speed.
The pressure sender is usually under 5 psi to keep the light out.
Frequent oil changes will not liquefy a lot of what get caught in the screen. Personally i couldn't sleep good without at least having a look see.
A partially blocked pickup that was starving the spool valve.
A lot of sludge, but i've seen worse. You say in won't get 5k miles over the next few years so the short tripping will not make this better. I would not use a solvent , especially not a fast flush, you might put a filter in bypass or plug up the pickup. I would use a good oversize filter and just change the oil more often.
Everyone has their opinion. I personally had great results with the kerosene/diesel fuel and paint thinner combo. I like the idea of blowing compressed air into the dipstick tube to agitate!!! Nice.
Trav is right about dropping the pan and having a look-see.
I just wasn't up for that kind of work. I didn't want to do it, nor did I want to pay someone to do it. So, I just did what I did....the ol' solvent soak, turn the truck over, let it set, over and over and over again. What came out of the oil pan was NASTY, NASTY, NASTY.
Since I've done that, I've run MMO through my truck ever since....to help continue the cleaning process.
Trav is right about dropping the pan and having a look-see.
I just wasn't up for that kind of work. I didn't want to do it, nor did I want to pay someone to do it. So, I just did what I did....the ol' solvent soak, turn the truck over, let it set, over and over and over again. What came out of the oil pan was NASTY, NASTY, NASTY.
Since I've done that, I've run MMO through my truck ever since....to help continue the cleaning process.
Originally Posted By: Farmer
What about using some MMO with my oil?
Just remember to use a thicker oil before putting a quart of MMO in there. It will thin a 10w-40 down a bit to a 5w-30 or so.
What about using some MMO with my oil?
Just remember to use a thicker oil before putting a quart of MMO in there. It will thin a 10w-40 down a bit to a 5w-30 or so.
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If you plan to drop the pan, I would hose it down liberally with some Berryman B-12 Chemtool. It will emulsify the sludge and clean the valve train back to bare metal. I would spray the bottom end as well, particularly the oil pump pickup.
I would do this only if dropping the pan and I would do two very short (500 mile) OCs following the B-12 treatment.
I would do this only if dropping the pan and I would do two very short (500 mile) OCs following the B-12 treatment.
There is another way without dropping the pan, i have have used it with some success.
First you need..
1 gallon of kerosene and a 1 gallon can of Gunk cc3k.
A couple of cheap stiff bristle parts cleaning brushes, HF has them cheap.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/gunk-carburetor-parts-cleaner-complete-kit-cc3k/7040709-P
First drain the oil, replace the drain plug and using a thin funnel pour 1 qt of the kerosene in the oil pan down one of the return holes in the head.
Scratch out as much of the junk ans you can from both heads then take a quart of the carb and parts cleaner in a can and brush the entire head down, do not scrub the valve springs as you want to keep contact of the chemical and seals to a minimum.
Let it sit a couple of hours then scrub the heads with the parts brush, they wll come spotlessly clean.
Wash them down with a little kerosene and a brush and let it go into the pan.
Drain the pain again, replace the plug and pour the remaining 3 qts of the parts cleaner through the funnel into the pan.
This will not cause any issues whatsoever, it is never in contact with any seals or gaskets.
Leave it at least overnight a day or two is better, this will dissolve all the crud and whatever maybe on the pickup screen. Do not crank the engine during any part of this process.
Drain the pan again, replace the plug and fill it with the rest of the kerosene to wash the residual parts cleaner out.
Assemble the valve covers and fill with the cheapest dino you can find, leave the filter on that it has.
Run the engine 15-20 min at idle and change the oil and filter to whatever you intend to run in it.
There is no verification of how clean the pan is but i will tell you it gets them pretty clean. Do short OCI with PYB and a bottle of Rislone concentrate.
First you need..
1 gallon of kerosene and a 1 gallon can of Gunk cc3k.
A couple of cheap stiff bristle parts cleaning brushes, HF has them cheap.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/gunk-carburetor-parts-cleaner-complete-kit-cc3k/7040709-P
First drain the oil, replace the drain plug and using a thin funnel pour 1 qt of the kerosene in the oil pan down one of the return holes in the head.
Scratch out as much of the junk ans you can from both heads then take a quart of the carb and parts cleaner in a can and brush the entire head down, do not scrub the valve springs as you want to keep contact of the chemical and seals to a minimum.
Let it sit a couple of hours then scrub the heads with the parts brush, they wll come spotlessly clean.
Wash them down with a little kerosene and a brush and let it go into the pan.
Drain the pain again, replace the plug and pour the remaining 3 qts of the parts cleaner through the funnel into the pan.
This will not cause any issues whatsoever, it is never in contact with any seals or gaskets.
Leave it at least overnight a day or two is better, this will dissolve all the crud and whatever maybe on the pickup screen. Do not crank the engine during any part of this process.
Drain the pan again, replace the plug and fill it with the rest of the kerosene to wash the residual parts cleaner out.
Assemble the valve covers and fill with the cheapest dino you can find, leave the filter on that it has.
Run the engine 15-20 min at idle and change the oil and filter to whatever you intend to run in it.
There is no verification of how clean the pan is but i will tell you it gets them pretty clean. Do short OCI with PYB and a bottle of Rislone concentrate.
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I have owned 4 3.3 litre Caravans and never bothered to change the oil more than once every 8,000 miles so I can say that thing has really been abused. I would do as little as possible . Remove what sludge you can but you don't want to leave any sludge that has been disturbed and might break off and plug an oil gallery. Simply run any SN oil and change it on a regular basis. Fresh oil will slowly remove the sludge.
I agree. I have seen the oil pickup get blocked. If the oil light comes on, you have time to save the engine by shutting it off right away. This happened to my brother who had a similar situation to yours. He dropped the pan, cleaned it and never had another issue with it (2.2 4 cylinder Dodge).
I have owned 4 3.3 litre Caravans and never bothered to change the oil more than once every 8,000 miles so I can say that thing has really been abused. I would do as little as possible . Remove what sludge you can but you don't want to leave any sludge that has been disturbed and might break off and plug an oil gallery. Simply run any SN oil and change it on a regular basis. Fresh oil will slowly remove the sludge.
I agree. I have seen the oil pickup get blocked. If the oil light comes on, you have time to save the engine by shutting it off right away. This happened to my brother who had a similar situation to yours. He dropped the pan, cleaned it and never had another issue with it (2.2 4 cylinder Dodge).
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