I'm not quite sure what's going on with tires over the last several years, but I've had at least one tire per set develop a vibration that resembles an out of round tire. At first it was isolated to one vehicle, so I thought there was something with that particular vehicle that was causing it. But recently we've had it occur on several vehicles. It usually happens when the tire is around half to 3/4 of the mileage (in other words, an 80K mile rated tire will start at somewhere between 40K and 60K, even when the tire still has plenty of tread left). If the tire is on the front it makes the steering wheel shake...if it's on the rear, you can feel a vibration through the floorboards. It also has happened with different brands. It isn't a balancing issue because I'll have these tires rebalanced and they still do it. You'd think with tire prices doubling over the last 5 or 6 years we'd be seeing better quality tires, but apparently this isn't case. Are any of you experiencing this?
Tires that become "out of round"
- Thread starter grampi
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Are you keeping the pressures correct? ABS working or do you skid to a stop? If it's neither of those then it sounds like a manufacturing defect. TBH I've never had it happen, longest I've kept a set of tyres was about 60k and they went bald but they stayed round.
What brand/type/size rubber are you using?
What brand/type/size rubber are you using?
I bought 4 Winterforce tires back in October 2011. They were okay one winter, but the second winter they were nearly undriveable because they were out of round. 2 of them were still usable (on the rear) and I had to buy two new for the front.
The worst have sipes worn off in some spots, but nearly new tread left in other spots.
I then learned that it is pretty common for the Winterforce tires.
The worst have sipes worn off in some spots, but nearly new tread left in other spots.
I then learned that it is pretty common for the Winterforce tires.
JHZR2
Staff member
Ive had tires "break a belt" and exhibit what you mention. Out of round? I havent had a tire flatspot from sitting in a long time. Could be cheap tires, incorrect pressure, bad alignment specs on vehicles, etc.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ive had tires "break a belt" and exhibit what you mention. Out of round? I havent had a tire flatspot from sitting in a long time. Could be cheap tires, incorrect pressure, bad alignment specs on vehicles, etc.
Yeah - my winterforce tires have bad belts. That's the common problem.
The goodyear workhorse tires on my Cherokee flat spot overnight. Acts like a bias ply tire. It's been sitting for a week in the cold and has not moved. They will be real bad if I drive it tonight.
Ive had tires "break a belt" and exhibit what you mention. Out of round? I havent had a tire flatspot from sitting in a long time. Could be cheap tires, incorrect pressure, bad alignment specs on vehicles, etc.
Yeah - my winterforce tires have bad belts. That's the common problem.
The goodyear workhorse tires on my Cherokee flat spot overnight. Acts like a bias ply tire. It's been sitting for a week in the cold and has not moved. They will be real bad if I drive it tonight.
Never had them "become" out of round. Years ago my Dad bought a set of Pirelli P400s and after a few hundred miles they determined the tires were defective and had been manufactured out-of-round.
Of all the tires I've run on my wheel balancer, not very many tires are round when new, so I'm sure they just keep getting less round as they wear. Even in the same set of 4 tires you might see 3 with no visible run-out and one moving up and down as it spins, and that one will usually need more weights. On the flip side though, tires are not round when they are on the car. With weight on them they are pushed out of round by 3/4 of a inch, or so. Which is where a road force balancer comes into play to check for problems. If the tire has an issue when new, it will only get worse when worn. I don't have a road force, but you can see a lot just watching them spin at 100 rpm. Most tires have run-out that can't be corrected by indexing on the wheel, because the wheels do not have enough run-out to make up the difference anyway.
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I hate to say it, but it's a balance issue, but not a typical one.
Find a shop with a Hunder GSP 9700 and have them do a full roadforce balance. The machine measures tire and wheel roundness to ensure the circumference is radiused as true as possible. It's measured in lbs and generally you'd want less than 20lb for a regular car or less than fifteen for anything compact or smaller.
The wheel could be in balance, but if the two high spots of the wheel and tire are aligned, it's not round.
It's EXTREMELY worth it on new tires as they wear much more evenly.
Find a shop with a Hunder GSP 9700 and have them do a full roadforce balance. The machine measures tire and wheel roundness to ensure the circumference is radiused as true as possible. It's measured in lbs and generally you'd want less than 20lb for a regular car or less than fifteen for anything compact or smaller.
The wheel could be in balance, but if the two high spots of the wheel and tire are aligned, it's not round.
It's EXTREMELY worth it on new tires as they wear much more evenly.
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I then learned that it is pretty common for the Winterforce tires.
Winterforce = Firestone.
Is it also a common problem for Firestone tires?
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I then learned that it is pretty common for the Winterforce tires.
Winterforce = Firestone.
Is it also a common problem for Firestone tires?
Originally Posted By: Olas
Are you keeping the pressures correct? ABS working or do you skid to a stop? If it's neither of those then it sounds like a manufacturing defect. TBH I've never had it happen, longest I've kept a set of tyres was about 60k and they went bald but they stayed round.
What brand/type/size rubber are you using?
Yes, yes, and no to your first questions. I've had this happen with Goodyears, Michelins, and 3 different sets of Kumhos...and it's happened on 3 different vehicles, so the chances there are problems with all 3 vehicles that are causing this problem I would think would be about as good as winning the lottery....seems like a quality problem with tires to me...
Are you keeping the pressures correct? ABS working or do you skid to a stop? If it's neither of those then it sounds like a manufacturing defect. TBH I've never had it happen, longest I've kept a set of tyres was about 60k and they went bald but they stayed round.
What brand/type/size rubber are you using?
Yes, yes, and no to your first questions. I've had this happen with Goodyears, Michelins, and 3 different sets of Kumhos...and it's happened on 3 different vehicles, so the chances there are problems with all 3 vehicles that are causing this problem I would think would be about as good as winning the lottery....seems like a quality problem with tires to me...
Originally Posted By: Traction
Of all the tires I've run on my wheel balancer, not very many tires are round when new, so I'm sure they just keep getting less round as they wear. Even in the same set of 4 tires you might see 3 with no visible run-out and one moving up and down as it spins, and that one will usually need more weights. On the flip side though, tires are not round when they are on the car. With weight on them they are pushed out of round by 3/4 of a inch, or so. Which is where a road force balancer comes into play to check for problems. If the tire has an issue when new, it will only get worse when worn. I don't have a road force, but you can see a lot just watching them spin at 100 rpm. Most tires have run-out that can't be corrected by indexing on the wheel, because the wheels do not have enough run-out to make up the difference anyway.
Forgive me asking a stupid question, but aren't tires SUPPOSED to be round?
Of all the tires I've run on my wheel balancer, not very many tires are round when new, so I'm sure they just keep getting less round as they wear. Even in the same set of 4 tires you might see 3 with no visible run-out and one moving up and down as it spins, and that one will usually need more weights. On the flip side though, tires are not round when they are on the car. With weight on them they are pushed out of round by 3/4 of a inch, or so. Which is where a road force balancer comes into play to check for problems. If the tire has an issue when new, it will only get worse when worn. I don't have a road force, but you can see a lot just watching them spin at 100 rpm. Most tires have run-out that can't be corrected by indexing on the wheel, because the wheels do not have enough run-out to make up the difference anyway.
Forgive me asking a stupid question, but aren't tires SUPPOSED to be round?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Ive had tires "break a belt" and exhibit what you mention. Out of round? I havent had a tire flatspot from sitting in a long time. Could be cheap tires, incorrect pressure, bad alignment specs on vehicles, etc.
This is my experience also. Belt slipped, horrible vibration above 50. Went back to the shop where I bought it, they wouldn't believe me so I had them spin the mounted tire on the balancer, then spin the rim by itself. Result? New tire, free.
Ive had tires "break a belt" and exhibit what you mention. Out of round? I havent had a tire flatspot from sitting in a long time. Could be cheap tires, incorrect pressure, bad alignment specs on vehicles, etc.
This is my experience also. Belt slipped, horrible vibration above 50. Went back to the shop where I bought it, they wouldn't believe me so I had them spin the mounted tire on the balancer, then spin the rim by itself. Result? New tire, free.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Yes, yes, and no to your first questions. I've had this happen with Goodyears, Michelins, and 3 different sets of Kumhos...and it's happened on 3 different vehicles, so the chances there are problems with all 3 vehicles that are causing this problem I would think would be about as good as winning the lottery....seems like a quality problem with tires to me...
Next question. Did they all come from the same shop... or did the same shop do all the balancing work?
Yes, yes, and no to your first questions. I've had this happen with Goodyears, Michelins, and 3 different sets of Kumhos...and it's happened on 3 different vehicles, so the chances there are problems with all 3 vehicles that are causing this problem I would think would be about as good as winning the lottery....seems like a quality problem with tires to me...
Next question. Did they all come from the same shop... or did the same shop do all the balancing work?
No trying to be an idiot or insult you, but did you get these at the same shop akin to what mrsilv is saying? I know...I know....but the same thing happened to me at the ol' Montgomery Wards car care center...brand new car...oil change....guy says "hey, I noticed your tires are out of round, you need some new ones and it just so happens we are having a sale!"....drove those same tires for 40K and NEVER had a problem.....
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
No trying to be an idiot or insult you, but did you get these at the same shop akin to what mrsilv is saying? I know...I know....but the same thing happened to me at the ol' Montgomery Wards car care center...brand new car...oil change....guy says "hey, I noticed your tires are out of round, you need some new ones and it just so happens we are having a sale!"....drove those same tires for 40K and NEVER had a problem.....
That's right up there with "your rims are corroding, you better think about new wheels." I look up and there's a whole wall of mag wheels with high price tags. Yeah, right buddy, lemme think about that for a while.
Heard that at at least 3 different tire shops. Retired both vehicles with high milage the original rims.
No trying to be an idiot or insult you, but did you get these at the same shop akin to what mrsilv is saying? I know...I know....but the same thing happened to me at the ol' Montgomery Wards car care center...brand new car...oil change....guy says "hey, I noticed your tires are out of round, you need some new ones and it just so happens we are having a sale!"....drove those same tires for 40K and NEVER had a problem.....
That's right up there with "your rims are corroding, you better think about new wheels." I look up and there's a whole wall of mag wheels with high price tags. Yeah, right buddy, lemme think about that for a while.
Heard that at at least 3 different tire shops. Retired both vehicles with high milage the original rims.
Grampi,
Over the years, vehicles have gotten stiffer. That means that the natural resonant frequency of the chassis has gotten higher and now is in the same range as the natural resonant frequency of the tires - and every so often, there will be a vehicle where they are nearly identical.
From the perspective of tires that means that what used to be acceptable is no longer. It needs to be better.
The second part is this: The vehicle's alignment can wear a pattern into a tire that causes a vibration. Toe in is the usual suspect, and camber can be a multiplier to the affect.
Depending on how severe the mis-alignment is, this will affect how many miles it takes for this wear to become bad enough to cause a vibration. - (and by mis-alignment I mean how far off target it is, not whether it is within the allowable range.
Put another way, even a little off the optimum value can cause a tire to wear funny - it just takes longer.
This is where rotating tires regularly comes in. Rotating tires is attempting to prevent the tires from getting a wear pattern established so it can't be erased.
It there a difference in tires? Yes. Some tires are more sensitive than others - and it isn't always just brand. It's more the tread pattern.
Are some vehicles worse than others? Yes.
So if you have a situation where the tires start off fine, but deteriorate, look at the vehicle to see what is driving this deterioration.
Over the years, vehicles have gotten stiffer. That means that the natural resonant frequency of the chassis has gotten higher and now is in the same range as the natural resonant frequency of the tires - and every so often, there will be a vehicle where they are nearly identical.
From the perspective of tires that means that what used to be acceptable is no longer. It needs to be better.
The second part is this: The vehicle's alignment can wear a pattern into a tire that causes a vibration. Toe in is the usual suspect, and camber can be a multiplier to the affect.
Depending on how severe the mis-alignment is, this will affect how many miles it takes for this wear to become bad enough to cause a vibration. - (and by mis-alignment I mean how far off target it is, not whether it is within the allowable range.
Put another way, even a little off the optimum value can cause a tire to wear funny - it just takes longer.
This is where rotating tires regularly comes in. Rotating tires is attempting to prevent the tires from getting a wear pattern established so it can't be erased.
It there a difference in tires? Yes. Some tires are more sensitive than others - and it isn't always just brand. It's more the tread pattern.
Are some vehicles worse than others? Yes.
So if you have a situation where the tires start off fine, but deteriorate, look at the vehicle to see what is driving this deterioration.
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: grampi
Yes, yes, and no to your first questions. I've had this happen with Goodyears, Michelins, and 3 different sets of Kumhos...and it's happened on 3 different vehicles, so the chances there are problems with all 3 vehicles that are causing this problem I would think would be about as good as winning the lottery....seems like a quality problem with tires to me...
Next question. Did they all come from the same shop... or did the same shop do all the balancing work?
No
Originally Posted By: grampi
Yes, yes, and no to your first questions. I've had this happen with Goodyears, Michelins, and 3 different sets of Kumhos...and it's happened on 3 different vehicles, so the chances there are problems with all 3 vehicles that are causing this problem I would think would be about as good as winning the lottery....seems like a quality problem with tires to me...
Next question. Did they all come from the same shop... or did the same shop do all the balancing work?
No
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Grampi,
Over the years, vehicles have gotten stiffer. That means that the natural resonant frequency of the chassis has gotten higher and now is in the same range as the natural resonant frequency of the tires - and every so often, there will be a vehicle where they are nearly identical.
From the perspective of tires that means that what used to be acceptable is no longer. It needs to be better.
The second part is this: The vehicle's alignment can wear a pattern into a tire that causes a vibration. Toe in is the usual suspect, and camber can be a multiplier to the affect.
Depending on how severe the mis-alignment is, this will affect how many miles it takes for this wear to become bad enough to cause a vibration. - (and by mis-alignment I mean how far off target it is, not whether it is within the allowable range.
Put another way, even a little off the optimum value can cause a tire to wear funny - it just takes longer.
This is where rotating tires regularly comes in. Rotating tires is attempting to prevent the tires from getting a wear pattern established so it can't be erased.
It there a difference in tires? Yes. Some tires are more sensitive than others - and it isn't always just brand. It's more the tread pattern.
Are some vehicles worse than others? Yes.
So if you have a situation where the tires start off fine, but deteriorate, look at the vehicle to see what is driving this deterioration.
Maybe rotating my tires more often might avoid, or at least delay the problem?
Grampi,
Over the years, vehicles have gotten stiffer. That means that the natural resonant frequency of the chassis has gotten higher and now is in the same range as the natural resonant frequency of the tires - and every so often, there will be a vehicle where they are nearly identical.
From the perspective of tires that means that what used to be acceptable is no longer. It needs to be better.
The second part is this: The vehicle's alignment can wear a pattern into a tire that causes a vibration. Toe in is the usual suspect, and camber can be a multiplier to the affect.
Depending on how severe the mis-alignment is, this will affect how many miles it takes for this wear to become bad enough to cause a vibration. - (and by mis-alignment I mean how far off target it is, not whether it is within the allowable range.
Put another way, even a little off the optimum value can cause a tire to wear funny - it just takes longer.
This is where rotating tires regularly comes in. Rotating tires is attempting to prevent the tires from getting a wear pattern established so it can't be erased.
It there a difference in tires? Yes. Some tires are more sensitive than others - and it isn't always just brand. It's more the tread pattern.
Are some vehicles worse than others? Yes.
So if you have a situation where the tires start off fine, but deteriorate, look at the vehicle to see what is driving this deterioration.
Maybe rotating my tires more often might avoid, or at least delay the problem?
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