tires directional and non directional

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
........ http://kumhotyre.co.uk/our-tyres/motorsport/ ......


I stand corrected. They are rare, but they do exist.

 

[LubeLuke]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
They are rare, but they do exist.

Again as I said to a previous poster, this comment is nonsense. Virtually all manufacturers of gravel rally tires make asymmetric, directional tires. Off the top of my head: Michelin, Pirelli, Dmack, BFGoodrich, Kumho, Dunlop, Hankook. As you can see some very large names. Most of these manufacturers have multiple asymmetric, directional tires.
You will see asymmetric, directional tires at almost all snow, ice, or gravel rally events.

If these are 'rare' because your average person does not have them then so are multimeters.......

 

[bdcardinal]

The factory tires on the GT500, Goodyear Eagle Supercar G:2 have left and right part numbers. Granted we have always replaced them with Michelin Pilot Super Sports here, they are made.

Article numbers 408030316, 408031328, 408027316, 408028328. Fronts are 265/40/19 and rears are 285/35/20.

But yes, it is very rare in the grand scheme of tire sales.

 

[krzyss]

I beg your pardon!
I have multimeter but I have no asymmetric and directional tires!

A few years ago I think BF Goodrich KD were available as left and right.

Krzys

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
Just because you don't know about something doesn't make it very rare.
Directional and asymmetric are used extensively in racing applications. Virtually every top gravel and snow tire is asymmetric and directional.

We are not talking about racing applications, we are talking about passenger/light truck applications. If you search for sizes 205/65-16(2014 Honda Accord LX) and 225/60-16(1994 Lexus LS400) on Tirerack.com how many directional and asymmetric tires you can find out of hundreds makes/models. Most, if not all, are directional, asymmetric and symmetric.

My guess is either zero or at most 1 out of more than 100 total for 2 sizes, 0% or less than 1% is very rare to me.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
If these are 'rare' because your average person does not have them then so are multimeters.......

There are a lot more multimeters out there in the world than there are gravel rally tires. Incidentally, CapriRacer knows more about tires than just about everyone else on this board combined. I would believe his comment to be correct, and rally racing tires are as irrelevant to me and the average person as is nitrogen fill in the space shuttle's tires.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
They are rare, but they do exist.

Again as I said to a previous poster, this comment is nonsense. Virtually all manufacturers of gravel rally tires make asymmetric, directional tires. Off the top of my head: Michelin, Pirelli, Dmack, BFGoodrich, Kumho, Dunlop, Hankook. As you can see some very large names. Most of these manufacturers have multiple asymmetric, directional tires.
You will see asymmetric, directional tires at almost all snow, ice, or gravel rally events.

If these are 'rare' because your average person does not have them then so are multimeters.......

There is sub-forum "Racing Oils/Engines/Cars/Teams/Drivers", everything about racing/rally is posted there.

We are talking about tire for ordinary vehicles in this sub-forum "Tire & Wheel".

Out of tens of thousands ordinary vehicles(Ferrari & Lamborghini included) on USA roads(in So Cal) I didn't see one with asymmetric & directional tires. Capriracer is an expert on tire because he is a tire engineer, even he didn't know asymmetric & directional tire exist/available.

Did you see any ordinary vehicle on Australia roads with asymmetric & directional tires ? Do you have any plan to own a set ? If you go to your local tire stores can you buy a set on the spot without special order ?

I'm not into Rally so I didn't pay attention to anything in that special racing circuit.

Out of many thousands makes/models/sizes for ordinary vehicles only a handful asymmetric & directional tires are available(so it's not easy to buy), the ratio is less than 0.1%, to me this 0.1% is very rare.

 

[LubeLuke]

I'm disappointed to see that this site has such a boys club...

So using your example. I wonder which percent of tools are multimeters? Considering sockets and wrenches are usually sold by the 10s or even 100s for sockets in large sets and the fact that there are 1000s of different kinds then I would have to presume it is less than 0.1%. This would make a multimeter very rare by your logic.

I see it as every auto electrician having one. Just like every rally team would have asymmetric directional tires. To me regardless of what percentage they are this makes them not very rare. As rally racing is known and participated in world wide.

It is amusing how an engineer is presumed to be good at his job where as a mechanic is not. Yet there must be just as many useless engineers as there are any other profession.

Have fun with your boys club and remember that asymmetric directional tires are available all around the world. Including remote locations such as Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.

 

[krzyss]

Where did Australia came from?

Krzys

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
I see it as every auto electrician having one. Just like every rally team would have asymmetric directional tires. To me regardless of what percentage they are this makes them not very rare. As rally racing is known and participated in world wide.

The difference is though that lots of people, outside of automotive electricians, electricians of any sort, and engineers have a use for a multimeter. They are a handy thing to have around for any DIYer. Every one of those specialists I mentioned has at least one, plus you'll find a pile of the things in home toolboxes. I've never seen a rally tire though, aside from, I suppose, them being used on TV in races. I haven't stumbled across them at tire shops or in anyone's shed.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
I see it as every auto electrician having one. Just like every rally team would have asymmetric directional tires. To me regardless of what percentage they are this makes them not very rare. As rally racing is known and participated in world wide.

Have fun with your boys club and remember that asymmetric directional tires are available all around the world. Including remote locations such as Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.

Rally racing is virtually non existence in US, it is more popular in Africa and Middle East.

I asked you a simple question but you didn't answer, can you go to your local tire shop in Australia to buy a set of asymmetric directional tire ? Do you see a vehicle on Australian streets with asymmetric directional tire ? Do you ever own or know a person who owns a set of asymmetric directional tire ?

Don't you agree that less than 0.001% of vehicles on US roads(or Australian roads) have asymmetric directional tire are classified as very rare ?

 

[LubeLuke]

I must be imagining the existence of Global Rally Cross, and the worlds most famous rally driver Ken Block. He was on the podium of multiple Rally America races was he not?

I can not give you an answer as to what tires are available at a local tire shop in Australia as I am not sure of the answer. I have many (at a guess over 40) asymmetric directional tires at this time. Yes I know many people that own asymmetric directional tires.

I do not have the data on what percentage of vehicles on US or Australian roads have asymmetric directional tires. Can you show me your source?

I can show you a company founded in the USA that has made asymmetric directional tires for an American car.
Here you can see a left tire for a Corvette. I believe this is a relatively well known vehicle in the USA. http://www.corvetteguys.com/corvette-tires-goodyear-eagle-f1-supercar-g2-rof-emt-left-275-35-18.html And here is a right tire for a Covette http://www.corvetteguys.com/corvette-tir...-275-35-18.html
Both of the above tires are directional and asymmetric made by a USA company for a USA passenger vehicle.
Again we can see a well known web store selling a tire with the note "right side tire" http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/gyt-30965/overview/
Here we can see a quote listed on a corvette website presumably from Goodyear. "The Eagle F1 Supercar G: 2 ROF features a race-inspired tread compound molded into a unique asymmetric and directional tread design that rewards the driver with a blend of dry road traction (from massive outboard shoulder tread blocks) combined with wet road confidence (provided by Eagle F1 GS-D3 inspired sweeping Aquachannel grooves on the inboard side)." http://www.eastcoastvette.com/p-3548-corvette-tires-goodyear-eagle-f1-supercar-g-2-rof-emt-tire.aspx

You will also find many heavy machinery and construction tires have specific left and right tires. Although the tread designs are not always both asymmetric and directional. This is usually due to technicalities in the casing itself. As it is often beneficial to have the inside and outside sidewalls of different construction.

 

[LubeLuke]

Here we can see more tires, again by a major tire manufacturer. A quote "The P Zero Corsa System Asimmetrico asymmetric and directional tread design requires separate left and right side tires for the vehicle as branded on each tire's sidewall." http://dme.com.sg/store/ferrari/ferrari-430/ferrari-430-scuderia/pirelli-p-zero-corsa-ferrari-oe/
http://discounttirecenters.com/list.php?...p;brandID=10165
There are also a number of other circuit and tarmac rally tires that are both asymmetric and directional. Over the years I have seen many other tires that are both asymmetric and directional made for passenger vehicles (not motorsport tires).

I find it troubling that someone who is in the industry of tires would not know of their existence.

 

[jjjxlr8]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
I think the root of the OP's question is based on a misunderstanding of terms:

A symmetrical tire has the same tread design on the inner half of the tread surface as it does on the outer half. The two halves are mirror images.
An asymmetrical tire's tread design is different on the inner part of the tread surface than it is on the outer part (the side labeled as needing to face out).

A directional tire means that the tire is designed to roll in only one direction and should therefore only be installed on one side of a vehicle.
A non-directional tire is designed to roll in both directions, can be mounted on either side of the vehicle initially, and can be rotated to any other wheel position.

So a tire can be symmetrical and directional, symmetrical and non-directional, asymmetrical and directional, or asymmetrical and non-directional. Or at least that is my understanding of the topic. Please correct me if I am wrong.


This is almost correct....

Imagine looking at a flat footprint of the tire and imagine a plane cutting through the center of it separating the outside and inside halves. A directional tire often has the geometry from one half "mirrored" about this plane to create the geometry on the other side. Think of a simple arrow shape where the plane cuts through the point along the axis of the shaft.

What is commonly called a symmetric tire is not a "mirror" image from one half to the other. Instead, the geometry from one half is rotated 180 degrees and attached at plane in the center.

Directional:
///////
-------
\\\\\\\

Symmetric (non-directional):
//////
------
//////

Asymmetric non-directional:
/ / / /
-------
///////

Asymmetric directional (left and right):
/ / / /
-------
\\\\\\\

///////
-------
\ \ \ \

 

[krzyss]

You are good with ASCII graphics!

Krzys

 

[jjjxlr8]

Thanks...but really just too lazy to find pictures of real examples!

I liked your explanation, but visuals always help me.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

this is bitog

 

[spartan0199]

To add to the fun, I have a car with directional tires. My wife took it in to get a slow leak fixed and they mounted it backwards on the rim. Now I have 3 tires with "rotation arrow" pointing forward (as it should) and one pointed backward.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: spartan0199
To add to the fun, I have a car with directional tires. My wife took it in to get a slow leak fixed and they mounted it backwards on the rim. Now I have 3 tires with "rotation arrow" pointing forward (as it should) and one pointed backward.


Take it back and make them fix it.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
I must be imagining the existence of Global Rally Cross, and the worlds most famous rally driver Ken Block. He was on the podium of multiple Rally America races was he not?


Yes, but, SADLY ENOUGH (for us long suffering fans here in the states), GRC and the WRC are NOT major league motorsports in this country.

The vast majority of motorsports fan here probably do not even know that Rally America (or the SCCA Pro Rally Championships before that), even exist, despite Mr. Block's involvement, and his popularity due to his (cool nonetheless) 'Hoonigan' gymkhana YouTube shenanigans.