Thin UTF recommendation?

[guhfluh]

I'm searching for a Tractor Fluid that is wet brake compatible for an automatic transmission, but has a similar viscosity to ATF+4. Any recommendations?

From the info I have read, UTF's should be similar in weight to a SAE20 motor oil, but the specs I've seen don't seem to correlate with that. They seem to be almost double the VIS @40c and 1/3 higher @100c compared to the ATF+4 spec. I'm not sure of the validity of the weight claims though.

 

[IndyIan]

I think most UTF's are going to be in the 10W30 range for viscosities. Probably in your area the thinnest at 40c is going to be Kubota's synthetic UTF, SUDT. I've heard of guys up in Canada using a winter version of Shell Spirax S4 TXM but I've never found specs for it online.

 

[MolaKule]

I don't knw what you mean by "thin UTF" or where you got that information.

UTF's have a 100C viscosity of 9.3 to 9.5 cSt and that is one of specs you should look for, including wet clutch compatinility.

DexronIII/Mercon and Chrysler ATF+4 ATF's have a viscosity of 7.5 cSt@100C.

Go to Google or other search engine and type in "universal tractor fluid" as there are hundreds of fluid manf making UTF's.

 

[51Plymouth]

Here are some manufacturer's data sheets.

http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resour...amp;language=en

http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resour...amp;language=en

Scroll down to the bottom of the linked pages for viscosity information.

In the first link the "Produro TO-4 XL Lo Temp" has a 100C viscosity of 7.4cst. The Produro TO-4 10W" has a 100C viscosity of 6.3cst. This product line seems to be aimed at Caterpillar products.

The second link of "Duratran XL" has a 100C viscosity of 8.3cst. This product seems to be a low temperature UTF.

 

[MolaKule]

Hmmm, this must be a Canadian type spec for colder temps since most of my US customers spec a 9.5 cSt fluid for CAT, Kubota, and JD applications.

guhfluh, what equipment is this going into and what does the OEM spec?

BTW, these are all 20 weight viscosiies:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

 

[guhfluh]

Thank you for the links. That is helpful to at least know there is a hydraulic transmission fluid that is as thin as the ATF+4 I use. I am not sure if I can source that particular fluid here in the south US(Louisiana). I will check.

I have been using Valvoline ATF+4. VI of 198, VIS of 34.13cst @100c and 7.55cst @40c. http://www.lubricants.com/BuyersGuide/TransmissionFluid/pdf/VALVOLINEATF4.pdf

I picked up some Valvoline Premuim Universal Tractor Fluid to use before looking into it further and noticed the VI at 125, VIS of 65.75cst@40c and 9.5cst@100c

I have line pressure which is on the verge of extreme now while using Valvoline ATF+4 and cannot adjust it any lower. I have issues with galling in the differential which is attributed to low "ZDDP", additive, etc. protection from the ATF+4 and I am looking for a fluid which can protect the diff pin, gears, carrier, etc. as well as keep it from grenading from excessive line pressures(165+psi). This is a race built Chrysler a413/31th front wheel drive automatic transaxle found in Dodge Neons, etc.

 

[MolaKule]

What equipment is this?

I think if I lived in Louisiana, I would stick with with the 9.5 cSt stuff.


ATF does not have the same AW additive levels as do UTF's. UTF's have higher levels of AW than do UTF's.


So you have a hydraulic pressure adjustment but the ATF is still giving you high pressures? Is the original pump on this equipement or has it been replaced?

 

[guhfluh]

Originally Posted By: guhfluh
This is a race built Chrysler a413/31th front wheel drive automatic transaxle found in Dodge Neons, etc.
It is for my "race car"; a Dodge Neon(10.76@128 1/4mi so far).

The pump is stock. The valvebody and associated pressure regulator has been modified to produce the higher line pressure, but unfortunately it is too high and has already blown apart a clutch drum once before the line pressure was reduced as low as possible by the adjustment(165+psi now).

Many people use tractor hydraulic fluids in their performance automotive transaxles for the added anti-wear properties it gives, and in a Chrysler designed transaxle, it is even more wanted/needed because of the differential pin and spider gear design and associated galling issues. I have thought about simply using the ATF+4 and adding a bottle of Engine Oil Suppliment for the anti-wear additives, or even mixing a quart or two of a high Z Synthetic motor oil, such as M1 HM, but I'm concerned with any bad juju that may come from mixing, like high acidity, etc.

I would like to simply use a low viscosity tractor trans fluid, but I may be forced to mix or even replace/modify my valvebody regulator and run a higher viscosity fluid.

 

[MolaKule]

Anyone else want to comment?

Sorry, I am out of this one.

I just love it when someone leads me to believe this is offroad or agriculture equipment and then lays a Neon on me.

After all, this is the Heavy and Industrial Lubricants section is it not?

 

[guhfluh]

Well, thank you anyway. I did not see a "Dodge Neon" section either. I thought I made my intent perfectly clear in my first post, regardless of the application.
Originally Posted By: guhfluh
I'm searching for a Tractor Fluid that is wet brake compatible for an automatic transmission, but has a similar viscosity to ATF+4.

 

[roadrunner1]

There are quite a few guys in your situation using JD Hygard low-vis.

It has a viscosity of 7.2 @ 100c (spec JD 21A)

It exceeds all of your requirements.

 

[guhfluh]

Thank you. I have been looking at the Low Viscosity Hyguard, and although it's pretty expensive, I think it's what I need. I can't seem to find an equivalent spec, cheaper fluid that I could get locally either, so I believe the JD20 is what I may have to go with.

 

[Jim Allen]

If you want thin and cheap, Tractor supply has a multigrade UTF (10W20) in their Traveller brand. Has a low rent additive package but it's adequate. UTF

 

[DNVDMAX]

Originally Posted By: guhfluh
Thank you. I have been looking at the Low Viscosity Hyguard, and although it's pretty expensive, I think it's what I need. I can't seem to find an equivalent spec, cheaper fluid that I could get locally either, so I believe the JD20 is what I may have to go with.
+1 on the J20D HyGard I've used it with great results in Ag/Off-road Equipment.

 

[guhfluh]

Thanks guys. I picked up two gallons of Low VIS HY-Gard from the local dealer for $17ea, which is not very expensive in the grand scheme of things compared to the ATF+4 fluid that I have been using at $7+ per quart, and I feel the HY-Gard has what I want to protect my differential as well. I believe I can get the Traveller brand fluid locally also, but I feel better about the JD brand being better quality. I'm not buying in bulk(as long as there are no more breakages), so it's not a huge deal for me to pay a few extra bucks.