The switch from Honda ATF Z1 to DW-1.... issues.

[fiddler2068]

Originally Posted By: clearanceman
No, the harder it shifts, the less slip of the clutches. It might not feel as nice but it's not slipping the clutches as much. I once had an electroinic problem with my Subaru where it would flash the ATF light and shift horribly hard, the mechanic said well as least you weren't wearing the transmission although it would almost knock me out of my seat it shifted so hard. It was unbearable but apparently no slip of the clutches.


I thought only honda uses the manual automatic transmission. everyone else uses the fluid coupling and planetary gear system so there shouldn't be any jerking.

That jerking can't be the way it's suppose to operate though right?

fiddler

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Honda should just source out their autos. Out of all the cars in my family past and present, my Civic was the roughest shifting. Jatcos and Aisins shift so much smoother.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: fiddler2068
Originally Posted By: clearanceman
No, the harder it shifts, the less slip of the clutches. It might not feel as nice but it's not slipping the clutches as much. I once had an electroinic problem with my Subaru where it would flash the ATF light and shift horribly hard, the mechanic said well as least you weren't wearing the transmission although it would almost knock me out of my seat it shifted so hard. It was unbearable but apparently no slip of the clutches.


I thought only honda uses the manual automatic transmission. everyone else uses the fluid coupling and planetary gear system so there shouldn't be any jerking.

That jerking can't be the way it's suppose to operate though right?

fiddler


Not sure if it's related to what you are suggesting here, but someone did mention to me once(here or another forums) by suggesting to go by the Dealer to have the A/T's computer(?) reset to 'normal' learn mode(or whatever that may mean?)?

The idea that stuck with me was something along the lines of in the event it's over-adjusted and 'would take too long/cant adjust back on its own' since it went with no servicing up to 100,000/9 years or so on factory filled ATF+3(1999 Dodge Stratus, 2.4L w/ 41TE transmission)...basically implying there may be operational problems if I didn't get this performed(suggesting that the A/T had already been severely 'overcompensating' for a long time with worn out fluid)?

 

[Vstrom]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Honda should just source out their autos. Out of all the cars in my family past and present, my Civic was the roughest shifting. Jatcos and Aisins shift so much smoother.


I'm done with Hondas until they either outsource or hire engineers that can properly design one. Had an Accord that had the warranty extended because of trans problems but the real turn off was a Pilot having trans issues at 75,000. A relative had the same trans in an Odyssey replaced for the same issue. Known issue, bad design, Honda won't stand behind it but the dealer can happily put an authorized reman in, which will later have the SAME issue at early miles for only $4k.
See ya Honda...which pains me because we really loved the Pilot otherwise.
Its replacement vehicle has an Aisin, hoping for far better luck on it.
Oh and the Honda had its trans fluid changed FAR more often than required, which was apparently a total waste of money.

 

[fiddler2068]

Originally Posted By: Vstrom
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Honda should just source out their autos. Out of all the cars in my family past and present, my Civic was the roughest shifting. Jatcos and Aisins shift so much smoother.


I'm done with Hondas until they either outsource or hire engineers that can properly design one. Had an Accord that had the warranty extended because of trans problems but the real turn off was a Pilot having trans issues at 75,000. A relative had the same trans in an Odyssey replaced for the same issue. Known issue, bad design, Honda won't stand behind it but the dealer can happily put an authorized reman in, which will later have the SAME issue at early miles for only $4k.
See ya Honda...which pains me because we really loved the Pilot otherwise.
Its replacement vehicle has an Aisin, hoping for far better luck on it.
Oh and the Honda had its trans fluid changed FAR more often than required, which was apparently a total waste of money.


Is the pilot new? Apparently they have fixed this problem in some of their models. They were using 3 shafts in the transmission and the tranny just couldn't deal with V6 power. The 3 shafts are good for 4 cylinders and their manual transmissions for 4 cylinder engines are great.

So they used their customers as beta testers for several years and have started using 4 shaft transmissions with their V6 vehicles. Don't know if the pilot has it though.

fiddler

 

[Hokiefyd]

The MDX has had the 4-shaft transmission since 2004, and I think the Pilot got it in 2005 or 2006, but I'm not sure on the Pilot.

The 4-shaft in our MDX shifts flawless at almost 71,000, as I would expect out of any modern automatic transmission. It had the original ATF, too, until about 1,000 miles ago.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The MDX has had the 4-shaft transmission since 2004, and I think the Pilot got it in 2005 or 2006, but I'm not sure on the Pilot.

The 4-shaft in our MDX shifts flawless at almost 71,000, as I would expect out of any modern automatic transmission. It had the original ATF, too, until about 1,000 miles ago.


These also have a good amount of tranny failures... Trust me, changing the tranny fluid every 15K miles did not help my tranny.

You have 71K miles on the original ATF? Sorry, but I would highly doubt you will get to 131K miles like I did on my original tranny.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The MDX has had the 4-shaft transmission since 2004, and I think the Pilot got it in 2005 or 2006, but I'm not sure on the Pilot.

The 4-shaft in our MDX shifts flawless at almost 71,000, as I would expect out of any modern automatic transmission. It had the original ATF, too, until about 1,000 miles ago.


These also have a good amount of tranny failures... Trust me, changing the tranny fluid every 15K miles did not help my MDX tranny.

You have 71K miles on the original ATF? Sorry, but I would highly doubt you will get to 131K miles like I did on my original tranny.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
These also have a good amount of tranny failures... Trust me, changing the tranny fluid every 15K miles did not help my tranny.


Define "good amount" of failures, and where is your data? Looking at data from CR and TrueDelta and being on MDX and Pilot message boards, I'm just not seeing it.

 

[fiddler2068]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The MDX has had the 4-shaft transmission since 2004, and I think the Pilot got it in 2005 or 2006, but I'm not sure on the Pilot.

The 4-shaft in our MDX shifts flawless at almost 71,000, as I would expect out of any modern automatic transmission. It had the original ATF, too, until about 1,000 miles ago.


I'm too afraid to do long drains on ATFs now. At most, i'f probably leave it in there for 50k before a change. Considering how much ATF is, i'd probably do it sooner. like at 30k.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
These also have a good amount of tranny failures... Trust me, changing the tranny fluid every 15K miles did not help my tranny.


Define "good amount" of failures, and where is your data? Looking at data from CR and TrueDelta and being on MDX and Pilot message boards, I'm just not seeing it.


If you are on the MDX forum then you must be missing the numerous past threads about the premature tranny failures...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
If you are on the MDX forum then you must be missing the numerous past threads about the premature tranny failures...


So you have no empirical data. Okay, got it.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I will post my data, and perhaps we can discuss that if you don't have any to post of your own.

CR, as often bashed as it is, publishes information that closely correlates with what most folks recognize: in 2004, the V-6 transmission was significantly upgraded and widespread failures of the new units just aren't happening.

The Pilot, in 2003, gets a 3/5 circle for transmission (open). But in 2004, it moves to a 5/5 circle (full red, best) to current.

The Ridgeline, introduced in 2006, gets a 5/5 circle for all model years for transmission.

The Odyssey, from 2001-2003, gets a 1/5 circle (full black) for transmission. It improves a little after that, rising to a 5/5 for 2006. For some reason, it plummets back to a 1/5 for 2007, then improves to a 4/5 for 2008 and a 5/5 for 2009 and 2010. Why the fall in 2007? I don't know.

The Acura MDX, from 2001-2003, gets a 1/5 circle (full black). For 2004, it improves to a 3/5, then 4/5 for 2005, back to a 3/5 for 2006, then 5/5 for 2007-2010. We're starting to see a trend here.

The Acura TL, from 2001-2003, gets a 1/5 circle (full black). Then from 2004-2005 it's 4/5, then 5/5 for 2006-current. Yeah, there's a definite trend.

I'm not discounting your experience, or anyone else's. But when taken as a whole, relative to the numbers of units produced, the newer transmission design has proven itself pretty successfully in my opinion. The data clearly shows that in 2003 and prior, they (V-6 transmissions) were garbage, and I'm not here to argue that. I am suggesting that Honda is years beyond that poor reliability record.

 

[Boss302fan]

I am just going off of the many threads that I read, when I was having issues with my own MDX tranny.

Many other people have had issues with the 01-05 trannys failing at 50K miles up to whatever... Mine was do due to an internal tranny cooler that failed and mixed with the radiator coolant. Others have had other issues and it is well known if you do a internet search. Otherwise, I have always liked Hondas and have owned many in the past.

The V6 engine is also a cause of concern with Honda and is well documented...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Well, again, I'm not here to discount your experience. You had issues and nobody would be happy about that. Your transmission failure does sound like it was collateral damage from another part failure (radiator). I like the K24 in the Honda, but that J35 in the Acura is one honey of an engine. It's probably my favorite of the engines I've owned. What a smooth and willing performer.

 

[Vstrom]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The data clearly shows that in 2003 and prior, they (V-6 transmissions) were garbage, and I'm not here to argue that. I am suggesting that Honda is years beyond that poor reliability record.


Well they may be years beyond now, but the extremely bad taste left in me from having problems with a 2003 soured me on buying another one....I had expected to drive the thing another 8 years or more. I would have replaced the transmission myself and could have for around $1800 with my labor. This is for a trans from the same facility Honda uses to create their remans.

But I read time and time again where people who had replaced 2003ish Pilot and Odyssey trans had the same failure again, often even sooner than the original. Bad design. Perhaps forgiveable if they would help a little but they won't. They used to extend goodwill repairs to loyal customers, but supposedly ended that program.
Mine had not failed, but the early signs were there, starting occasionally shifting funny, a fluid swap would cure it for awhile...but the drain plug magnet was always very fuzzy, worse than it had ever been for the majority of the miles. I never liked Honda not having a changeable trans oil filter anyway.
Fine I switched back to Toyota...we'll see how it goes. Honda has lost the cost of many transmissions in my future business not being with them. I can't even count how many Honda engines, motorcycles, atvs, boat motors and cars I've owned but I can pretty safely say how many I will own from now on.


Kinda funny how CR can rate a 2003 Ody poorly for trans but a 2003 Pilot much better, since they are pretty much if not exactly the same transmission...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Vstrom
Kinda funny how CR can rate a 2003 Ody poorly for trans but a 2003 Pilot much better, since they are pretty much if not exactly the same transmission...


Same with the 2007 Odyssey. It gets a full black dot while others with the same unit get a full red dot. What explains the drop, I don't know. CR reports the results (supposedly) from the user surveys, so it's not so much as CR "rating" the reliability, it's simply what users are reporting. Again, supposedly.

 

[joel95ex]

unless honda/acura changed, they DO NOT recommend flushes.... only drain/refill. i just added the new DW to my original 400,100 mile AT accord with no problems. there is a recall on AT for accord just recently. may affect the acura too---was a bearing issue

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: joel95ex
there is a recall on AT for accord just recently. may affect the acura too---was a bearing issue


I don't believe it included any Acuras, but it definitely included Accords. It was for CR-Vs, Accords, etc. Only for the 4-cylinder transmissions as I recall. If the driver repeatedly and quickly shifted from reverse to drive to reverse to drive, and kept doing that (like rocking the car from snow), it could wear one of the shaft bearings. So they adjusted the programming to soften the engagement between forward and reverse.

Lately, I think Honda is as guilty of programming errors as anything else with their transmissions. Service bulletins exist for a variety of Honda/Acura cars for torque converter shudder. Our MDX was doing this also. Seems their low-speed engagement for the torque converter may have been a little bit too aggressive, and the TSB included a re-flash to raise the engagement point. It fixes the problem, but it's something that should have been worked out better during development.

 

[Boss302fan]

All I can say is that some people are in denial about their vehicles.

Also, I know two master mechanics and they both have told me that Honda/Acura have issues with the Trannys on the MDX/Pilots. Also cooling and block problems with the V6 engine...

Do your own data research...