The knock on nitrile

[HawkeyeScott]

I've spent ahwile searching for more specifics on nitrile ADBVs. I still have some questions I haven't found the answers to.

1. People say nitrile can harden if left in service too long. How long? And is it too many miles or too many months?

2. If hardening is an issue, should nitrile ADBVs be used in winter? If cold temps are an issue, how cold?

3. Has anyone on here had a nitrile filter fail because of a hard or brittle ADBV? (Or for any other reason associated with the ABDV?)

Thanks in advance for your info.

-HS

 

[Gary Allan]

1. I would say that it's so many heating/cooling cycles or time at temperature.

2. I don't think it will alter the issues with nitrile ADBV. I've never noticed any difference in the mileage to startup rattle (about 3-4k). Then again, my wife does 18k a year ..so she's going to fatigue the valve.

3. Other than the valve itself, I'm unaware of any "consequential" filter related issue due to the nitrile valve. I think one member attributed something to the ADBV in a Fram that had some association with the cardboard endcap not providing any support ...but I don't recall the particulars.


This is why I tend to lean toward better filters for those who do higher mileage. If you're doing 8k a year, a cheaper filter works well. You're probably going to be changing it out around every 6months/4k miles. The sump is exchanged a little too often to take advantage of advanced filtration ..and the ADBV usually holds up for those who are distressed with startup rattle.

As you approach 10k and beyond, then the attributes of a better filter become more apparent. In many cases you can use the same filter over 2 OCIs to get your money's worth.

 

[HawkeyeScott]

Thanks Gary. I value your opinion. I've got an AAP on the shelf I'm thinking of using. I know you're fond of them.

 

[TurboJim]

I've seen a Fram filter that was left on an engine so long the nitrile turned into what seemed like hard plastic. Only a few holes blown through the media though, so the filter wasn't completely clogged up. Just terribly restricted.

 

[Patman]

The nitrile ADBV was one of my main concerns about using the NAPA Nascar Select filters on my two cars, as I started wondering if that was a smart choice for our cold winters here. It does get below 0F on occasion, and my car is often parked outside overnight too.

Other than that, mileage wise I'd probably be ok, as I change my oil in the Corvette every 5-6 months, or about every 7000 miles. My wife's car gets an oil change every 5000 miles, which usually takes 5-6 months also.

I still worry though, so I might go back to the Wix (or NAPA Gold) again on the next changes for both cars.

 

[BillWilson]

I just started using SuperTech on three autos and a commercial mower this year. The SuperTech filters have been quiet without startup rattle on all vehicles so far. Two of the vehicles have over 220,000 miles. I will have a UOA performed on the new vehicle (50,000 miles) during the next few oil/filer changes to see how the SuperTech is performing.

 

[Gary Allan]

Patman: It's always a case of YMMV. Isn't an ADBV an afterthought on your engine anyway? That is, it basically superseded a filter without an ADBV to cover more apps with one filter??

Bill: There's never been any attack on ST filters from a basic functional level. They're not super fine in filtering but do a decent job for the typical 3-5k type usage. So, unless there's some defect in your particular ST filter that was used during your OCI that you're doing the UOA on ..I'm sure it will show fine. They'll filter as long as any other filter ..just not to a fine level. That's why, if you so desired, you could follow the OEM recommendations on some engines/vehicles that says "7500 miles/6months. If mileage is used you can change the filter every other OCI". That may include startup rattle ..which most manufacturers don't consider a problem ..Ford being the exception.


Fundamentally speaking, an ADBV is not intended as an anti-start up rattle elimination device. It's to prevent rapid back flushing of the media. The specs are to hold for so many minutes (hours, whatever). There may have been an engine or two that have some issue with an empty filter ..but they came along long after ADBVs were created and implemented in oil filters. Many Ford owners can remark about the "S" designation ..and these engines may fall into this category ..but you've also got to take into account Ford Engine Division's anal attention paid to oil filters when weighing this. No dome end bypass valves and whatnot. One also has to consider that it may be a source of customer complaint that they want to eliminate.

No one likes to hear it ..but is it something to worry about? If you don't hear it ..don't worry about it. If you hear it once .it could be that you just got a defective ADBV. It can happen to any filter. If you hear it every time (or a couple of instances with a given filter in the same service) AND it does bother you ..go to a better filter

 

[Patman]

Even though the positioning of my filter on the Corvette makes an ADBV not an absolute necessity, GM must feel it's important since over the last few years they began only specifying filters with them, even on previous applications that didn't call for them. For instance, the PF1218 filter, which replaced the PF35 on their larger V8s. The only difference between the two is the ADBV.

And I still think an ADBV helps oil flow a little bit on startup even with a vertically mounted filter. Otherwise the oil passages just above the oil filter would be empty right after you shut the engine off.

 

[BillWilson]

Gary & Patman,

My thinking is also about cold start-up issues. I am "learning" about auto lubrication/filter systems from people like you on BITOG.

Question:

I do not know the compound Champion uses for the ADBV, could it be nitrile?

On my vehicles with plus 220,000 miles 87 Toyota Pickup & 96 G-20 Infiniti, I was impressed with the SuperTech cost & ability to stop the start-up rattle on these vehicles after sitting over 24 hours. Being able to prevent the rattle (if possible) should be a good thing.

I don't know how the weather is were you guys are at, with forecast in the mid 70s here, its time to go for a motorcycle ride in the NC mountains!

Best Regards,

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: BillWilson
I do not know the compound Champion uses for the ADBV, could it be nitrile?


Bill, the rule of thumb is black=nitrile and red (more of an orange-y brick colour actually)=silicone.

I don't know if this is an absolute, but I've never heard of any black silicone ADBVs or red nitrile ones.

Champion will install whatever the client specifies, but the "usual suspects" like SuperTech and such get nitrile. Where is Filter Guy when we need him?

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, Filter Guy had his inside contacts at Champ. He was more into the sales/marketing end of it ..but had no problem finding out what anyone wanted to know.