the dreaded RUST!
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Do you use the hose at your home to wash the undercarriage? I ask because many car washes have to recycle the water that is drained off, and it may cause salt to be spread further under your vehicle.
Not all car washes do this, but many do. Just a thought.
Not all car washes do this, but many do. Just a thought.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
WD40 is 75% solvents, and a very light oil. Its will wash off in less than a day when exposes to slush and salt wash. I would like you to provide proof of the Military study showing it was effective. I doubt that would be classified information (if it exists)
Scroll to page 26. Reading it again, they only mention that Corrosion Free was best at inhibiting rust, but WD40 faired quite well IMO, considering that its not meant to be a corrosion inhibitor as a primary function. I agree with it being easy to wash off, but the study doesn't cover this. My point is that WD40 is not totally useless. It will do very well in clsed in areas like rocker panels or doors.
Another plus to WD40 is that it attracted the least amount of dust/dirt. Maybe that's why lots of people recommend WD40 for motorcycle chain maintenance. Good rust inhibiting properties and little dirt attraction are quite important for o-ring chains.
http://cradpdf.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc53/p526285.pdf
WD40 is 75% solvents, and a very light oil. Its will wash off in less than a day when exposes to slush and salt wash. I would like you to provide proof of the Military study showing it was effective. I doubt that would be classified information (if it exists)
Scroll to page 26. Reading it again, they only mention that Corrosion Free was best at inhibiting rust, but WD40 faired quite well IMO, considering that its not meant to be a corrosion inhibitor as a primary function. I agree with it being easy to wash off, but the study doesn't cover this. My point is that WD40 is not totally useless. It will do very well in clsed in areas like rocker panels or doors.
Another plus to WD40 is that it attracted the least amount of dust/dirt. Maybe that's why lots of people recommend WD40 for motorcycle chain maintenance. Good rust inhibiting properties and little dirt attraction are quite important for o-ring chains.
http://cradpdf.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc53/p526285.pdf
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Originally Posted By: Bluestream
WD40 is 75% solvents, and a very light oil. Its will wash off in less than a day when exposes to slush and salt wash. I would like you to provide proof of the Military study showing it was effective. I doubt that would be classified information (if it exists)
The data is contained in this following report. The one chart is difficult to see on my computer:
https://shufti.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/p526285.pdf ........See section 4.
The test measured corrosion of aluminum wire wrapped on copper bolts that were set out in various environmental conditions. The results suggest Corrosion Free 3000 was best for THIS application. No statistical analysis is presented. It's tough to infer that Corrosion Free would therefore be best for vehicle applications, IMO. However, Corrosion Free is using this single test to promote their product.
Corrosion Free has a huge quality control image problem using Canadian Tire as it's main outlet. My son just called the two Corrosion Free dealers in SE Michigan and was not impressed by the simple phone communication he encountered.
The application process is probably as important, or even more important than the material, within reason.
WD40 is 75% solvents, and a very light oil. Its will wash off in less than a day when exposes to slush and salt wash. I would like you to provide proof of the Military study showing it was effective. I doubt that would be classified information (if it exists)
The data is contained in this following report. The one chart is difficult to see on my computer:
https://shufti.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/p526285.pdf ........See section 4.
The test measured corrosion of aluminum wire wrapped on copper bolts that were set out in various environmental conditions. The results suggest Corrosion Free 3000 was best for THIS application. No statistical analysis is presented. It's tough to infer that Corrosion Free would therefore be best for vehicle applications, IMO. However, Corrosion Free is using this single test to promote their product.
Corrosion Free has a huge quality control image problem using Canadian Tire as it's main outlet. My son just called the two Corrosion Free dealers in SE Michigan and was not impressed by the simple phone communication he encountered.
The application process is probably as important, or even more important than the material, within reason.
Originally Posted By: wokeupdead
Do you use the hose at your home to wash the undercarriage? I ask because many car washes have to recycle the water that is drained off, and it may cause salt to be spread further under your vehicle.
Not all car washes do this, but many do. Just a thought.
It would be great to be able to wash the undercarriage at home, but how you gonna get under the car to be able to spray everything off? You almost need to have one of those sunken floors in you garage so you've got some room under there...
Do you use the hose at your home to wash the undercarriage? I ask because many car washes have to recycle the water that is drained off, and it may cause salt to be spread further under your vehicle.
Not all car washes do this, but many do. Just a thought.
It would be great to be able to wash the undercarriage at home, but how you gonna get under the car to be able to spray everything off? You almost need to have one of those sunken floors in you garage so you've got some room under there...
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
My suggestion is to put sand down instead of salt...who cares if it doesn't melt the stuff, you can still get traction on it and that's what matters, and it's far less damaging to vehicles than salt...
Like what?
My suggestion is to put sand down instead of salt...who cares if it doesn't melt the stuff, you can still get traction on it and that's what matters, and it's far less damaging to vehicles than salt...
My guess is that it is cheaper to salt than not.
Every time a production line slows down money is lost. Multiply that across all businesses in a city and it becomes real money. Now add in the cost for when EMS has to go and clean up after an accident.
Throw in tax revenue from car sales and I think you can see how this works well for the gov.
Hyperbole aside, society seems to have a low opinion of life being interrupted by weather. Spending money to get things back to normal may be cheaper than waiting it out. If not cheaper then simply desirable. You have to admit, it is nice when the roads are nice and dry in winter, as opposed to driving on hard pack for an extended duration at low speeds.
Every time a production line slows down money is lost. Multiply that across all businesses in a city and it becomes real money. Now add in the cost for when EMS has to go and clean up after an accident.
Throw in tax revenue from car sales and I think you can see how this works well for the gov.
Hyperbole aside, society seems to have a low opinion of life being interrupted by weather. Spending money to get things back to normal may be cheaper than waiting it out. If not cheaper then simply desirable. You have to admit, it is nice when the roads are nice and dry in winter, as opposed to driving on hard pack for an extended duration at low speeds.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
My suggestion is to put sand down instead of salt...who cares if it doesn't melt the stuff, you can still get traction on it and that's what matters, and it's far less damaging to vehicles than salt...
Have you actually seen what happens to snow when lots of cars drive over it? It becomes pure ice. The entire roads, side streets, walkways, parking lots etc. would have to be fully covered with sand. Have you ever been to a construction site where they excavate dirt? Your entire city would look like that. Plus, just like on the excavation site, the roads would eventually develop patterns and "waves" on them making the ride very rough and jarring. Couple that with the fact the the compacted snow would not melt easily and evenly in all places and will only get thicker and thicker with each snow storm and you may end up with a road that's useless to normal traffic.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
My suggestion is to put sand down instead of salt...who cares if it doesn't melt the stuff, you can still get traction on it and that's what matters, and it's far less damaging to vehicles than salt...
Have you actually seen what happens to snow when lots of cars drive over it? It becomes pure ice. The entire roads, side streets, walkways, parking lots etc. would have to be fully covered with sand. Have you ever been to a construction site where they excavate dirt? Your entire city would look like that. Plus, just like on the excavation site, the roads would eventually develop patterns and "waves" on them making the ride very rough and jarring. Couple that with the fact the the compacted snow would not melt easily and evenly in all places and will only get thicker and thicker with each snow storm and you may end up with a road that's useless to normal traffic.
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Y'all move down here to the South, where we don't have that issue.
You're not south enough. The salt line ends when crossing the South Carolina state line.
Even though there is salt used here, there will always be warm days shortly after a snow to rinse the salt off. I've never had an issue since I moved to VA from WV. Now WV is a different story. There was a waxy rustproofing that the local body shop sprayed into the inside of the doors, rockers, etc. He had to drill holes to get it into the correct areas to protect the cars. It worked fairly well.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Y'all move down here to the South, where we don't have that issue.
You're not south enough. The salt line ends when crossing the South Carolina state line.
Even though there is salt used here, there will always be warm days shortly after a snow to rinse the salt off. I've never had an issue since I moved to VA from WV. Now WV is a different story. There was a waxy rustproofing that the local body shop sprayed into the inside of the doors, rockers, etc. He had to drill holes to get it into the correct areas to protect the cars. It worked fairly well.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
My suggestion is to put sand down instead of salt...who cares if it doesn't melt the stuff, you can still get traction on it and that's what matters, and it's far less damaging to vehicles than salt...
Have you actually seen what happens to snow when lots of cars drive over it? It becomes pure ice. The entire roads, side streets, walkways, parking lots etc. would have to be fully covered with sand. Have you ever been to a construction site where they excavate dirt? Your entire city would look like that. Plus, just like on the excavation site, the roads would eventually develop patterns and "waves" on them making the ride very rough and jarring. Couple that with the fact the the compacted snow would not melt easily and evenly in all places and will only get thicker and thicker with each snow storm and you may end up with a road that's useless to normal traffic.
I lived in Grand Forks, ND for 12 years when I was in the Air Force. They never salted the roads, they only put down sand...and in ND it isn't like you'd get thawing periods because it just didn't happen...once the snow fell, it was there until winter was over, and we never had problem one with the roads...we'd drive on hard packed snow covered in sand the entire winter and didn't have to deal with the dam salt and all the problems it causes...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
My suggestion is to put sand down instead of salt...who cares if it doesn't melt the stuff, you can still get traction on it and that's what matters, and it's far less damaging to vehicles than salt...
Have you actually seen what happens to snow when lots of cars drive over it? It becomes pure ice. The entire roads, side streets, walkways, parking lots etc. would have to be fully covered with sand. Have you ever been to a construction site where they excavate dirt? Your entire city would look like that. Plus, just like on the excavation site, the roads would eventually develop patterns and "waves" on them making the ride very rough and jarring. Couple that with the fact the the compacted snow would not melt easily and evenly in all places and will only get thicker and thicker with each snow storm and you may end up with a road that's useless to normal traffic.
I lived in Grand Forks, ND for 12 years when I was in the Air Force. They never salted the roads, they only put down sand...and in ND it isn't like you'd get thawing periods because it just didn't happen...once the snow fell, it was there until winter was over, and we never had problem one with the roads...we'd drive on hard packed snow covered in sand the entire winter and didn't have to deal with the dam salt and all the problems it causes...
Gramps, I had the same memories of living in the Upper Peninsula.
Conditions are different in southern Michigan, Ohio, etc..
-We get lots more temperatures hovering around 32F +/-. This creates a lot more freeze/thaw cycles that results in icy conditions. Not the dry, hard pack snow of up north.
-More people, more traffic, more idiots. People far north adjust to the conditions. Down here people don't want the inconvenience of winter. They don't want to slow down or get up earlier to commute, etc.. It takes over a month for people to relearn winter driving every year, over and over. Slowing down, leaving more bumper space doesn't compute.
These are the 2 main reasons so much salt is used in the midwest vs. the far north.
Conditions are different in southern Michigan, Ohio, etc..
-We get lots more temperatures hovering around 32F +/-. This creates a lot more freeze/thaw cycles that results in icy conditions. Not the dry, hard pack snow of up north.
-More people, more traffic, more idiots. People far north adjust to the conditions. Down here people don't want the inconvenience of winter. They don't want to slow down or get up earlier to commute, etc.. It takes over a month for people to relearn winter driving every year, over and over. Slowing down, leaving more bumper space doesn't compute.
These are the 2 main reasons so much salt is used in the midwest vs. the far north.
Salt is not a huge deal for me because I rust proof my cars. Here is how my 06 Mazda 3 looks like underneath. I'm scaling down the annual treatments to high wash areas, the rest is good for 2-3 years with maybe some touchups.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: wokeupdead
Do you use the hose at your home to wash the undercarriage? I ask because many car washes have to recycle the water that is drained off, and it may cause salt to be spread further under your vehicle.
Not all car washes do this, but many do. Just a thought.
It would be great to be able to wash the undercarriage at home, but how you gonna get under the car to be able to spray everything off? You almost need to have one of those sunken floors in you garage so you've got some room under there...
Put it on ramps...or do what I have seen my friend do: put a sprinkler under it for half an hour!
Originally Posted By: wokeupdead
Do you use the hose at your home to wash the undercarriage? I ask because many car washes have to recycle the water that is drained off, and it may cause salt to be spread further under your vehicle.
Not all car washes do this, but many do. Just a thought.
It would be great to be able to wash the undercarriage at home, but how you gonna get under the car to be able to spray everything off? You almost need to have one of those sunken floors in you garage so you've got some room under there...
Put it on ramps...or do what I have seen my friend do: put a sprinkler under it for half an hour!
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
Coarse sand.
The problems is sand has to be cleaned up in the spring, salt just gets washed away. Also, have a look at the paint on your hood next time you drive behind a car on a heavily sanded highway.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Like what?
Coarse sand.
The problems is sand has to be cleaned up in the spring, salt just gets washed away. Also, have a look at the paint on your hood next time you drive behind a car on a heavily sanded highway.
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
WD40 is 75% solvents, and a very light oil. Its will wash off in less than a day when exposes to slush and salt wash. I would like you to provide proof of the Military study showing it was effective. I doubt that would be classified information (if it exists)
Scroll to page 26. Reading it again, they only mention that Corrosion Free was best at inhibiting rust, but WD40 faired quite well IMO, considering that its not meant to be a corrosion inhibitor as a primary function. I agree with it being easy to wash off, but the study doesn't cover this. My point is that WD40 is not totally useless. It will do very well in clsed in areas like rocker panels or doors.
Another plus to WD40 is that it attracted the least amount of dust/dirt. Maybe that's why lots of people recommend WD40 for motorcycle chain maintenance. Good rust inhibiting properties and little dirt attraction are quite important for o-ring chains.
http://cradpdf.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc53/p526285.pdf
This test has no validity to automotive applications involving road salt.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
WD40 is 75% solvents, and a very light oil. Its will wash off in less than a day when exposes to slush and salt wash. I would like you to provide proof of the Military study showing it was effective. I doubt that would be classified information (if it exists)
Scroll to page 26. Reading it again, they only mention that Corrosion Free was best at inhibiting rust, but WD40 faired quite well IMO, considering that its not meant to be a corrosion inhibitor as a primary function. I agree with it being easy to wash off, but the study doesn't cover this. My point is that WD40 is not totally useless. It will do very well in clsed in areas like rocker panels or doors.
Another plus to WD40 is that it attracted the least amount of dust/dirt. Maybe that's why lots of people recommend WD40 for motorcycle chain maintenance. Good rust inhibiting properties and little dirt attraction are quite important for o-ring chains.
http://cradpdf.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc53/p526285.pdf
This test has no validity to automotive applications involving road salt.
I have not had a problem with modern vehicles if you just spray off underneath them a bit in the winter. My truck is 10 years old and just starting to pop a few rust spots on the frame. By the time it amounts to anything the truck will be shot.
Mine also gets a number of salt water baths in the summer.
I was under the impression GM has either a 6 or 10 year rust warranty?
Mine also gets a number of salt water baths in the summer.
I was under the impression GM has either a 6 or 10 year rust warranty?
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