Switch to SF MTL-R or stick with OE Castrol TAF-X?

[crew219]

Currently I'm an owner of a 2006 Audi A3 with an 02Q six speed transmission. The OEM fluid is the G52 ( G052 911 A1) which is spec'd as a GL4/5 and has a VW 501.50 rating. IIRC this is a 75w90 gear oil.

Currently the vehicle has 2800 miles on it and I'm thinking about
switching it out for some redline MT-90 or SF MTL-R. The reason why I'd like to switch is because during certain shifts, I can "feel" the gears more than on other shifts. I do not launch the vehicle or rush through the gears so I'm fairly aware of being nice on the syncros. What I would like is a slightly thicker oil / better additive package than the OEM fluid. From what I've seen, the MTL-R has been used in various VW transmissions with no issues at all.

MT-90 seems to have its fair share of haters in the NE due to cold shifting issues. The supposedly "fix" for this is to blend it with some MTL, however it has worked for some and hasn't worked for others. I live in the Northeast in an area which gets down to as low as -20F so cold shifting is an issue.

Although I could not find the specs on the OEM fluid, I did find that Castrol makes a VW501.50 gear oil called TAF-X and I could get the specs on that. According to Castrol, TAF-X is the factory fill for VW/Audi. Assuming that it is the OE fluid or similar to the OE fluid it appears to have a much lower viscosity than the MT-90/MTL-R @ 40 degrees.

Sorry for the weird language but it was the only specs I could find.
????????? ??? 15 ? ?, ?/?? 3 0.864
???????? ??? 40 ? ?, ??? 76.0
???????? ??? 100 ? ?, ??? 14.0
?????? ???????? 200
??????????? ??????? ? ???????? ?????, ? C 224
??????????? ??????????, ? ? -51

In my situation, should I swap out the fluid to the MTL-R or stick
with OE fluid? I'm sure the TAF-X is an excellent gear oil, but I'm
sure the additive package in MTL-R is most likely better. I'm hoping a switch in fluid would make the shift feel more consistant and also reduce wear in the transmission but am worried about cold shifting. Any comments / insight would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

 

[glxpassat]

Hi Dave,

I just went through alot of research on this for my Passat's 5 speed. The bottle of G52 I looked at at the dealer is the same .5 liter bottle that TAF-X comes in, so I believe it is the factory fill. Since it is a dual rated GL-4/5, I think it would be wise to use the same as long as it states it will not harm syncro's. I have not tried MTL-R but I plan on it soon. The only other dual rated lube that states it is safe is Royal Purple's gear max 75w-90 and is what I am using now. It shifts better than stock when warm, but it's thicker and is worse cold. I can't get second gear when it's 80 degrees out until after a couple of minutes of driving, so I'm not going to keep it long. The TAF-X is good stuff and may be the best for cold weather, but I think there is better for shifting feel when warm. I too did not like the clunky rough feel it had when warm. There have been rumors of VW/Audi underfilling the trannys so be sure to measure how much comes out if you can. It's so new, you could reuse it if you can catch it in a clean container if you don't like the MTL-R.

BTW, you can get TAF-X much cheaper from a Lotus dealer ($15 for a .5 liter) if you live close to one. The VW dealer sells it for about $25 per .5 liter.

 

[Terry]

Use the Specialty Formulations MTL.

One of the things I DREAMED of when posting on noria and helping Bob Winters with this site was that cutting edge formulators would support and post here no SPIN. Its reality now. Support Mola, he has some of the best formulations we can afford available and he GIVES cutting edge data away all the time.

Plus how many of the actual formulating Physicists/Chemists can you personally talk to about the lubes in your vehicle!? Dude this is NIRVANA...

 

[crew219]

quote:

---

Originally posted by glxpassat:
Hi Dave,

I just went through alot of research on this for my Passat's 5 speed. The bottle of G52 I looked at at the dealer is the same .5 liter bottle that TAF-X comes in, so I believe it is the factory fill. Since it is a dual rated GL-4/5, I think it would be wise to use the same as long as it states it will not harm syncro's. I have not tried MTL-R but I plan on it soon. The only other dual rated lube that states it is safe is Royal Purple's gear max 75w-90 and is what I am using now. It shifts better than stock when warm, but it's thicker and is worse cold. I can't get second gear when it's 80 degrees out until after a couple of minutes of driving, so I'm not going to keep it long. The TAF-X is good stuff and may be the best for cold weather, but I think there is better for shifting feel when warm. I too did not like the clunky rough feel it had when warm. There have been rumors of VW/Audi underfilling the trannys so be sure to measure how much comes out if you can. It's so new, you could reuse it if you can catch it in a clean container if you don't like the MTL-R.

BTW, you can get TAF-X much cheaper from a Lotus dealer ($15 for a .5 liter) if you live close to one. The VW dealer sells it for about $25 per .5 liter.

---

Good stuff . . . are you TCWhite on PW? That post is where I got most of my info from.

The clunky shifting is exactly what I feel no matter if I go fast or slow with the shift. Certain shifts are fine, others kinda suck.

I thought for $25 you get 1 liter of the manual fluid. IIRC that's what I saw from drewparts.

Dave

 

[glxpassat]

yeah, it's me. All I know is what my dealer wanted to sell the .5 liter bottle for. I really love the feel of the RP and I can make a 1-3 shift starting out, but when it gets really cold I just don't think it's going to work well. I will probably switch to MTL-R in the next month or so. Please report back if you do change it out!

 

[crew219]

ouch!

No wonder why you had issues going into 2nd gear. . . .

cSt @ 40°C 144.5

I guess in the winter then, I'll have similar issues to the people who run straight MT-90 since the cSt@ 40 is so similar between Mt-90 and MTL-R?

I guess what I'm really wondering is how much of an impact is the extra 20 or so cSt @ 40 degrees is going to feel like in the winter. Can I just warm up the car longer to lessen this effect? I know manual trannies don't heat up too quickly during idle, however with the traverse setup and turbo & etc, hopefully it'll be quicker than a passat.

I also thought inquiring about some sort of blend with MTL-P with the MTL-R but that seems like it might nullify the effects I'd like with the MTL-R.

Terry: I agree, Molakule's (and your) contributions to this board have been incredible. That's why I'm considering his product.

Dave

 

[uconn1150]

I would email Mola and give him the specifics. I asked ahead (after reviewing the website info) and he "personalized" my choice after asking me for some background. My tranny is much happier now!

 

[crew219]

quote:

---

Originally posted by uconn1150:
I would email Mola and give him the specifics. I asked ahead (after reviewing the website info) and he "personalized" my choice after asking me for some background. My tranny is much happier now!

---

I did send him an email (or the SF website email) but no one has responded. In their defense I did send it on Friday.

"Personalized" huh? I like the sound of that

Dave

 

[Terry]

"Tailored lubes" how many companies will do that for you?

Gee Whiz Mola, no wonder you are so busy lately!

Thanks crew219.

 

[glxpassat]

Yeah, I was afraid with that viscosity I might have some problems. But I had read a few on the Audi forum that were using it and were ok with it. I could get it local so I decided to try it. I was of the mind-set that I spend so much more time warmed-up that I could live with the stiffness when cold if it shifted well. And it does. But I didn't imagine it would be this bad at 80 degrees temp. Too bad because it really has a buttery smooth feel with quicker engagement with the protection of a GL-5.

 

[crew219]

Got my MTL-R today (Saturday). . . . ordered it on Wed. Thanks for the quick shipping Mola!

I can't wait to put this stuff in.

Dave

 

[Titan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by crew219:
Got my MTL-R today (Saturday). . . . ordered it on Wed. Thanks for the quick shipping Mola!

I can't wait to put this stuff in.

Dave

---

I'm one day ahead of you =,)
Hope you like the results as good as I do. My Saab 9-2X manual transmission shifts almost as good as a Honda now!

 

[crew219]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MolaKule:
You might try the MTL-P for extreme cold weather operation since it has GL5/GL4 EP protection as well, but is slightly lower in viscosity.

Some of our northern tier customers use that instead of MTL-R.

---

I thought about doing that, but the MTL-P still has a K. Viscosity@40 C of 82 whereas the Gear 300 is 72.6. Also, you mentioned in another thread that the VW/Audi trannies need 75w90 for wear protection.

Eventually when I move back to CA, I will probably give MTL-R another shot. It really did give the best hot shifting feel out of the three (OE, Motul, SF). Right now, my driving routine doesn't allow enough time for the gear oil to get fully warmed up.

Dave

 

[crew219]

Well here's an update.

2 weeks in my tranny before I pulled it out this weekend.

The MTL-R shifted the best when completely hot . . . usually attained by driving for about 15-20 minutes. Anything below that, it was notchy in every gear and I had cold shift issues at 50-60 degrees.

Tried diluting it a bit with some OE that I had on hand, but it didn't help too much.

I ended up replacing it with Motul Gear 300 which has similar specs to OE except lower viscosity @ 40 and higher viscosity @ 100 and a -60F pour point. So far I'm liking it. Shifts well like OE but I don't get that clashing feeling which was sometimes felt.

Basically, if I had a highway commute to work everyday, I'd choose the MTL-R. The shifts at operating temp were completely smooth and had that "cushioned" feeling that I prefer, however cold shifting was just pretty sad. Motul doesn't offer the same thick feel as the MTL-R but the cold flow is much much better.

Dave

 

[MolaKule]

You might try the MTL-P for extreme cold weather operation since it has GL5/GL4 EP protection as well, but is slightly lower in viscosity.

Some of our northern tier customers use that instead of MTL-R.