Subie WRX or STi
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sciphi
While it's apples to oranges, adding and then customizing a tune on my Cruze's 1.4T was/is a welcome decision. The added power has come in handy on occasion, and the car pulls hard to its 6500 RPM redline now instead of having no power after 5000 RPM.
That's interesting, did GM tune it that way to save the motor or turbo from high temperatures, or maybe just sandbagging so they can add 20hp at some point for a faster version?
It's always assumed that a small turbo kills higher rpm power, and not much can help that but a bigger turbo or running more boost.
Sciphi mentioned the reason why in another thread. GM probably tuned the car conservatively for reliability.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Tuned Cruzes with the 1.4T gasser mill have blown the M32 manual transmission already. The top gasser Cruzes are putting out ~200-220 ft/lbs, depending on whether they go E85 or not. The M32's 2nd and 4th gears in particular are fragile, and have been lunched at those power levels. Even at 180 ft/lbs, which is what my Cruze puts out on its conservative tune, 2nd gear gets noticeably soft if I repeatedly launch hard. Not a good idea to run 100 ft/lbs more through an already-fragile transmission.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
While it's apples to oranges, adding and then customizing a tune on my Cruze's 1.4T was/is a welcome decision. The added power has come in handy on occasion, and the car pulls hard to its 6500 RPM redline now instead of having no power after 5000 RPM.
That's interesting, did GM tune it that way to save the motor or turbo from high temperatures, or maybe just sandbagging so they can add 20hp at some point for a faster version?
It's always assumed that a small turbo kills higher rpm power, and not much can help that but a bigger turbo or running more boost.
Sciphi mentioned the reason why in another thread. GM probably tuned the car conservatively for reliability.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Tuned Cruzes with the 1.4T gasser mill have blown the M32 manual transmission already. The top gasser Cruzes are putting out ~200-220 ft/lbs, depending on whether they go E85 or not. The M32's 2nd and 4th gears in particular are fragile, and have been lunched at those power levels. Even at 180 ft/lbs, which is what my Cruze puts out on its conservative tune, 2nd gear gets noticeably soft if I repeatedly launch hard. Not a good idea to run 100 ft/lbs more through an already-fragile transmission.
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
Why would you even want an AT in this car?
Exactly. Good man you got the MT.
I'm disgusted by how hard it is to find MT's these days in many cars.
A WRX or STI ONLY offer manual transmission. The original 2002 WRX and up to 2005 they offered a 4 speed autotragic(same as Forester,Legacy) and it was pure garbage with the 2.0L high sprung basically rubberband power curve turbo engine.
Quote:
Why would you even want an AT in this car?
Exactly. Good man you got the MT.
I'm disgusted by how hard it is to find MT's these days in many cars.
A WRX or STI ONLY offer manual transmission. The original 2002 WRX and up to 2005 they offered a 4 speed autotragic(same as Forester,Legacy) and it was pure garbage with the 2.0L high sprung basically rubberband power curve turbo engine.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sciphi
While it's apples to oranges, adding and then customizing a tune on my Cruze's 1.4T was/is a welcome decision. The added power has come in handy on occasion, and the car pulls hard to its 6500 RPM redline now instead of having no power after 5000 RPM.
That's interesting, did GM tune it that way to save the motor or turbo from high temperatures, or maybe just sandbagging so they can add 20hp at some point for a faster version?
It's always assumed that a small turbo kills higher rpm power, and not much can help that but a bigger turbo or running more boost.
Somebody already posted the main reason why. The M32 6-speed manual in the Cruze does not withstand sustained high torque that well.
Stock, the car goes pig-rich after 5000 RPM to protect itself from folks caning it on 87 octane. It dumps fuel and yanks timing to protect from knock. My tune is for 91+ octane, and bumps up the PSI to 19 PSI from 16 PSI stock. It also leans out the high RPM fueling tables, and adds back in timing. It's a pretty conservative tune, even after all that. Don't want to blow the transmission, after all!
Regardless, it's made the car quite a bit quicker. Pablo would find the same with a tune on his 'Rex.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
While it's apples to oranges, adding and then customizing a tune on my Cruze's 1.4T was/is a welcome decision. The added power has come in handy on occasion, and the car pulls hard to its 6500 RPM redline now instead of having no power after 5000 RPM.
That's interesting, did GM tune it that way to save the motor or turbo from high temperatures, or maybe just sandbagging so they can add 20hp at some point for a faster version?
It's always assumed that a small turbo kills higher rpm power, and not much can help that but a bigger turbo or running more boost.
Somebody already posted the main reason why. The M32 6-speed manual in the Cruze does not withstand sustained high torque that well.
Stock, the car goes pig-rich after 5000 RPM to protect itself from folks caning it on 87 octane. It dumps fuel and yanks timing to protect from knock. My tune is for 91+ octane, and bumps up the PSI to 19 PSI from 16 PSI stock. It also leans out the high RPM fueling tables, and adds back in timing. It's a pretty conservative tune, even after all that. Don't want to blow the transmission, after all!
Regardless, it's made the car quite a bit quicker. Pablo would find the same with a tune on his 'Rex.
Having owned both my opinion is that the WRX is a better street car from the standpoint that it won't beat you up if all the roads you drive on aren't as smooth as glass.
But the STI is massively better on a track. Horsepower doesn't tell the story here, it's all in the drivetrain.
But the STI is massively better on a track. Horsepower doesn't tell the story here, it's all in the drivetrain.
The wait is already killing me!!
Sti for a g'box that doesn't break regularly like the WRX one does. Not many WRX here that are on the original g'box.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The wait is already killing me!!
Patience, Grasshopper
The wait is already killing me!!
Patience, Grasshopper
If this was 2006 i would have said neither, and get a forester XT or outback XT, but sadly subaru thinks that consumers do not want those products. its not like it isnt so freaking easy to stuff the engine into those other cars anyway. Now you can enjoy your 2014 XT forester in CVT (vomit) guise.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sciphi
While it's apples to oranges, adding and then customizing a tune on my Cruze's 1.4T was/is a welcome decision. The added power has come in handy on occasion, and the car pulls hard to its 6500 RPM redline now instead of having no power after 5000 RPM.
That's interesting, did GM tune it that way to save the motor or turbo from high temperatures, or maybe just sandbagging so they can add 20hp at some point for a faster version?
It's always assumed that a small turbo kills higher rpm power, and not much can help that but a bigger turbo or running more boost.
Somebody already posted the main reason why. The M32 6-speed manual in the Cruze does not withstand sustained high torque that well.
Stock, the car goes pig-rich after 5000 RPM to protect itself from folks caning it on 87 octane. It dumps fuel and yanks timing to protect from knock. My tune is for 91+ octane, and bumps up the PSI to 19 PSI from 16 PSI stock. It also leans out the high RPM fueling tables, and adds back in timing. It's a pretty conservative tune, even after all that. Don't want to blow the transmission, after all!
Regardless, it's made the car quite a bit quicker. Pablo would find the same with a tune on his 'Rex.
It's ludicrous how much more hp you can get from just a tune on a stock modern turbo car.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sciphi
While it's apples to oranges, adding and then customizing a tune on my Cruze's 1.4T was/is a welcome decision. The added power has come in handy on occasion, and the car pulls hard to its 6500 RPM redline now instead of having no power after 5000 RPM.
That's interesting, did GM tune it that way to save the motor or turbo from high temperatures, or maybe just sandbagging so they can add 20hp at some point for a faster version?
It's always assumed that a small turbo kills higher rpm power, and not much can help that but a bigger turbo or running more boost.
Somebody already posted the main reason why. The M32 6-speed manual in the Cruze does not withstand sustained high torque that well.
Stock, the car goes pig-rich after 5000 RPM to protect itself from folks caning it on 87 octane. It dumps fuel and yanks timing to protect from knock. My tune is for 91+ octane, and bumps up the PSI to 19 PSI from 16 PSI stock. It also leans out the high RPM fueling tables, and adds back in timing. It's a pretty conservative tune, even after all that. Don't want to blow the transmission, after all!
Regardless, it's made the car quite a bit quicker. Pablo would find the same with a tune on his 'Rex.
It's ludicrous how much more hp you can get from just a tune on a stock modern turbo car.
Quote:
Now you can enjoy your 2014 XT forester in CVT (vomit) guise.
I'm a MT guy, but I have to say the CVT Subaru is using is pretty good! It's not what I expected. I'd still opt for the MT though.
I'm thinking the WRX may be the perfect car for me. I'd get a dedicated set of snow tires and be good to go. Beach use would have to be limited though.
Now you can enjoy your 2014 XT forester in CVT (vomit) guise.
I'm a MT guy, but I have to say the CVT Subaru is using is pretty good! It's not what I expected. I'd still opt for the MT though.
I'm thinking the WRX may be the perfect car for me. I'd get a dedicated set of snow tires and be good to go. Beach use would have to be limited though.
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Pablo
WRX Limited 5dr ordered. Satin Pearl.
Estimated January 2014 delivery.
By the way, there's one sitting at the Subaru dealer in Peoria (Phoenix), AZ... right now.
True and thanks for the PM. It's got the $1500 NAV system, which I declined.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
WRX Limited 5dr ordered. Satin Pearl.
Estimated January 2014 delivery.
By the way, there's one sitting at the Subaru dealer in Peoria (Phoenix), AZ... right now.
True and thanks for the PM. It's got the $1500 NAV system, which I declined.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
Why would you even want an AT in this car?
Exactly. Good man you got the MT.
I'm disgusted by how hard it is to find MT's these days in many cars.
+1 and glad to decline the nav too - sounds like a car set up how it should be... Congrats!
Quote:
Why would you even want an AT in this car?
Exactly. Good man you got the MT.
I'm disgusted by how hard it is to find MT's these days in many cars.
+1 and glad to decline the nav too - sounds like a car set up how it should be... Congrats!
Another month down. Cool thing really allows me to save money. Three months to go.
I've even sold nine guns and a bunch of ancillary stuff I never use. Converted to cash, less clutter is good.
I've even sold nine guns and a bunch of ancillary stuff I never use. Converted to cash, less clutter is good.
Having spent a lot of time in and around both the WRX and STI, the former is a very potent car that is able to very easily make far more power than you could ever use on the street, and avoids the boy-racer look of the STI. I would never go so far as to say it's a sleeper, but it is definitely more subtly aggressive.
I admit that I am not a fan of AWD, I believe that the front wheels are to point where you want to go and the rear are to get you there, but of all the AWD systems iI've used, Subaru is at the top. Audi's Quattro is overrated, IMHO, but the Gallardo (especially the Superleggera) makes great use of it, and feels much better than any Sx/RSx
As far as the easy power...
- Upgraded downpipe is a must-have
- Combine an upgraded intercooler with upgraded (better flowing, aluminum and or silicone) I/C piping and a good intake
- Full exhaust isn't necessary, but I would do a section 1 at least, to improve spoolingby bbetter matching the downpipe
Do the above and then get it tuned. I would not recommend tuning without at least the above supporting mods, as you will hit a wall and have major issues with heatsoak. People are too quick to think "turbo = turn up the boost" and forget how driveability is affected. A peak engine that doesn't come on boost until 4500rpm is not a good thing for the street, and if you have ever been in or driven a Porsche 930 Turbo, you know why.
Instead, you want to get the turbo spooling as much as possible, as quickly as possible, which gives you absolutely immense gains in throttle response, and an insanely linear power curve where you have the vast majority of peak torque available across most of the Rev range.
By properly balancing the intake and exhaust sides, done with the aforementioned "supporting" mods (as well as others), you significantly increase the engine's ability to breath, thereby increasing exhaust gas velocity AND volume, which spins the turbo to speed more quickly. Also, the cooler intake charge from a well integrated intercooler, and just as importantly the intercooler piping, allows for higher boost levels without risk of detonation.
The best IC piping is the shortest, and I have yet to see a better option than mandrel bent stainless steel with SwainTech heat resistant coating.
Furthermore, SwainTech header treatment applied to the downpipe, and their heat dissipation coating on the intercooler, all work together to keep heat where it should be, increasing exhaust velocity and decreasing underhood tempo.
I admit that I am not a fan of AWD, I believe that the front wheels are to point where you want to go and the rear are to get you there, but of all the AWD systems iI've used, Subaru is at the top. Audi's Quattro is overrated, IMHO, but the Gallardo (especially the Superleggera) makes great use of it, and feels much better than any Sx/RSx
As far as the easy power...
- Upgraded downpipe is a must-have
- Combine an upgraded intercooler with upgraded (better flowing, aluminum and or silicone) I/C piping and a good intake
- Full exhaust isn't necessary, but I would do a section 1 at least, to improve spoolingby bbetter matching the downpipe
Do the above and then get it tuned. I would not recommend tuning without at least the above supporting mods, as you will hit a wall and have major issues with heatsoak. People are too quick to think "turbo = turn up the boost" and forget how driveability is affected. A peak engine that doesn't come on boost until 4500rpm is not a good thing for the street, and if you have ever been in or driven a Porsche 930 Turbo, you know why.
Instead, you want to get the turbo spooling as much as possible, as quickly as possible, which gives you absolutely immense gains in throttle response, and an insanely linear power curve where you have the vast majority of peak torque available across most of the Rev range.
By properly balancing the intake and exhaust sides, done with the aforementioned "supporting" mods (as well as others), you significantly increase the engine's ability to breath, thereby increasing exhaust gas velocity AND volume, which spins the turbo to speed more quickly. Also, the cooler intake charge from a well integrated intercooler, and just as importantly the intercooler piping, allows for higher boost levels without risk of detonation.
The best IC piping is the shortest, and I have yet to see a better option than mandrel bent stainless steel with SwainTech heat resistant coating.
Furthermore, SwainTech header treatment applied to the downpipe, and their heat dissipation coating on the intercooler, all work together to keep heat where it should be, increasing exhaust velocity and decreasing underhood tempo.
Any regret or temptation to wait after the reveal of the 2015 WRX this week?
Since you ordered a 5 door (the only way to go IMO!) and they seem to be going sedan-only (for now at least, I'm not convinced that'll last too long) I'm guessing not.
Since you ordered a 5 door (the only way to go IMO!) and they seem to be going sedan-only (for now at least, I'm not convinced that'll last too long) I'm guessing not.
JUST got the phone call.
Saturday AM I get to pick my car up.
Here is the weird part: It's my wedding anniversary. The wife will suspect something is up when I don't give the car to her!
Saturday AM I get to pick my car up.
Here is the weird part: It's my wedding anniversary. The wife will suspect something is up when I don't give the car to her!
Originally Posted By: Pablo
JUST got the phone call.
Saturday AM I get to pick my car up.
Here is the weird part: It's my wedding anniversary. The wife will suspect something is up when I don't give the car to her!
Congrats. Just don't let them prep the car (aside from mechanical) -- once they wash it, they'll probably swirl up the paint.
JUST got the phone call.
Saturday AM I get to pick my car up.
Here is the weird part: It's my wedding anniversary. The wife will suspect something is up when I don't give the car to her!
Congrats. Just don't let them prep the car (aside from mechanical) -- once they wash it, they'll probably swirl up the paint.
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