Stop Drinking Diet Soda....Now

[Pop_Rivit]

I haven't consumed any sort of soda for decades. The obvious health issues aside, I simply don't like putting any sort of sweetener into anything I consume.

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Sounds to me like diet sodas are being blamed for people not being able to control their eating/drinking habits otherwise. Why blame the diet drinks for the diabetes when it was really the Golden Corral that caused it?


I think a lot of obese people attempt to justify their bad habits by hiding behind their diet soda (or other diet drinks). It's a sad testament to the mentality of the obese when they can't confront their problem and control their health. Much like an alcoholic who isn't able to control his drinking, it boils down to a lack of willpower and self control.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23088901

Quote:
Twenty-nine male Wistar rats received plain yogurt sweetened with 20% sucrose, 0.3% sodium saccharin or 0.4% aspartame, in addition to chow and water ad libitum, while physical activity was restrained. Measurements of cumulative body weight gain, total caloric intake, caloric intake of chow and caloric intake of sweetened yogurt were performed weekly for 12 weeks. Results showed that addition of either saccharin or aspartame to yogurt resulted in increased weight gain compared to addition of sucrose, however total caloric intake was similar among groups. In conclusion, greater weight gain was promoted by the use of saccharin or aspartame, compared with sucrose, and this weight gain was unrelated to caloric intake.

You snipped this critical comment from the above abstract:
"... evidence regarding their real effect in body weight and satiety is still inconclusive..."
and this:
"We speculate that a decrease in energy expenditure or increase in fluid retention might be involved."

They didn't control for physical activity or water retention? It doesn't seem as though those researchers conducted a particularly rigorous test.

Will a car run with an empty gas tank? No. And a body cannot get fat on no calories.

 

[supton]

I don't know if artificial sweetners are good or bad; the studies seem to go back and forth. I figure it's just better to avoid. Given the impact on my teeth I don't drink either kind of soda. I give into temptation, in particular during summer (when I'm drinking lots of fluids) but overall I just don't.

I like sticking with coffee (which I have to use sugar in), tea (which sometimes I can have neat), lots of water, beer and wine. I've actually had an herbal tea at resturants a time or two when I just didn't want water. I figure, human bodies have been ingesting that stuff for a long time, and possibly evolved around them--sweetners are relatively new on the scene for us.

 

[javacontour]

I think it was in another thread where I read someone write something to the effect, "Ever see obese concentration camp detainees?"

Eating is like a budget. You have to control both intake and output. In the case of food and exercise, if your intake exceeds your output, you will gain weight.

Making it personal, it's been a weekend of steaks for one reason or another. This morning, after last nights pre-Valentine's Day dinner with oilBabe I weight 1 pound more than I did Friday morning.

Nothing that two or three days at the gym won't correct. At my burn rate of 1000-1200 calories/hour at the gym, it takes over three hours to torch a pound of fat.

It's far easier to put it on than take it off.

Of course, as you build more lean muscle mass, you increase your metabolic rate. But even workouts Sat, Sun, yesterday and Monday couldn't make up for the food-fest we enjoyed this weekend.

So today it's egg white omelet, lots of fruits and veggies and probably some lean tuna or other fish for lunch.

Gotta balance the books

 

[DBMaster]

The overall issue is that there really isn't ONE thing that is responsible for all our health woes. It would be SO easy to find that one thing that is so toxic that just discontinuing it would put everything right again. Unfortunately, health issues are caused by a combination of factors, some controllable, some not.

No matter what you do you're still going to die and, most likely, you're still going to end up with one or more chronic conditions - if you live long enough.

So, we have plenty, more or less, yet we make ourselves into some very anxious and unhappy people.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
It's a sad testament to the mentality of the obese when they can't confront their problem and control their health. Much like an alcoholic who isn't able to control his drinking, it boils down to a lack of willpower and self control.


I totally disagree with this statement.

Do you think anyone wants to be obese? Do you think anyone wants to be an alcoholic? Don't you think these people have tried and tried to stop their addiction and have failed miserably?

If the solution really was will power and self-control, people wouldn't have these problems. These people would simply make up their minds to quit doing whatever destructive behavior they are doing, and they would move on with their lives.

I have witnessed a lot of people, upset and take a firm stand to change their situations. They make vows and promises. They set up a plan. They do this with the utmost sincerity. Most of the time, they do this with tears streaming down their faces and snot bubbles coming out of their noses. They are upset and determined. They would do anything to change....but they can't seem to, no matter how hard they try or what they try.

People like this require a spiritual experience to over come their dilemna.

Let me use myself as an example: I have a lot of will power. I graduated #1 in my high school class. Played in Burger King National High School football All-Star game. Was a double major in Chemistry and Physics at a prestigious undergraduate college while playing football. Obtained my graduate degree from Harvard. I studied and worked for the Air Force and NASA. Ended up in drug discovery for Eli Lilly in their Neuroscience division.....all by the age of 26.

Yet, despite all my awards and accolades, I became an over-weight alcoholic drug addict who ended up in prison for 5 years. Not a lot of guys with graduate degrees from Harvard in prison, let me tell you. I could, and did, anything I wanted to. I accomplished whatever I set my mind up to. But this was the only challenge I couldn't overcome. No matter how much I wanted to (and I did) or how much I needed to (boss, wife, and family on my back), I couldn't defeat this.

This has nothing to do with will power....if you are inflicted with the disease of addiction. If you can loose weight just by deciding you want to, or stop drinking because you make up your mind....you are not an addict. But those afflicted with the disease of addiction, they can do nothing about their problem.

The power to overcome these dilemnas must come from someplace else. Their only hope is to surrended and let something else change them.

I would have laughed at such a post if I would have read this 10 years ago. I would have thought this guy must be a quack. I have a head full of knowledge and nothing about the solution makes sense. But I've tried everything, and it's the only thing that worked....and I had to try everything, before I was willing to try this. Unfortunately, this is just how it works for most people.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Mega congrats on overcoming your problems. Perhaps you will inspire someone else to put down a bottle.

I've watched alcohol and other drugs ruin some good folk's lives many times, it's terribly sad to see it happen while they deny anything is wrong.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23088901

Quote:
Twenty-nine male Wistar rats received plain yogurt sweetened with 20% sucrose, 0.3% sodium saccharin or 0.4% aspartame, in addition to chow and water ad libitum, while physical activity was restrained. Measurements of cumulative body weight gain, total caloric intake, caloric intake of chow and caloric intake of sweetened yogurt were performed weekly for 12 weeks. Results showed that addition of either saccharin or aspartame to yogurt resulted in increased weight gain compared to addition of sucrose, however total caloric intake was similar among groups. In conclusion, greater weight gain was promoted by the use of saccharin or aspartame, compared with sucrose, and this weight gain was unrelated to caloric intake.

You snipped this critical comment from the above abstract:
"... evidence regarding their real effect in body weight and satiety is still inconclusive..."
and this:
"We speculate that a decrease in energy expenditure or increase in fluid retention might be involved."

They didn't control for physical activity or water retention? It doesn't seem as though those researchers conducted a particularly rigorous test.

Will a car run with an empty gas tank? No. And a body cannot get fat on no calories.


I think the study hint that artificial sweetener doesn't satisfy craving like normal sugar does, and there might be a balance between sweet taste and the amount of calorie intake. So if this balance is broken with artificial sweetener, the eaters would just stuff themselves with other food and actually causes more overeating.

The effect of the amount of physical activity may actually be a result, so not controlling can be justified.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23088901

Quote:
Twenty-nine male Wistar rats received plain yogurt sweetened with 20% sucrose, 0.3% sodium saccharin or 0.4% aspartame, in addition to chow and water ad libitum, while physical activity was restrained. Measurements of cumulative body weight gain, total caloric intake, caloric intake of chow and caloric intake of sweetened yogurt were performed weekly for 12 weeks. Results showed that addition of either saccharin or aspartame to yogurt resulted in increased weight gain compared to addition of sucrose, however total caloric intake was similar among groups. In conclusion, greater weight gain was promoted by the use of saccharin or aspartame, compared with sucrose, and this weight gain was unrelated to caloric intake.

You snipped this critical comment from the above abstract:
"... evidence regarding their real effect in body weight and satiety is still inconclusive..."
and this:
"We speculate that a decrease in energy expenditure or increase in fluid retention might be involved."

They didn't control for physical activity or water retention? It doesn't seem as though those researchers conducted a particularly rigorous test.

Will a car run with an empty gas tank? No. And a body cannot get fat on no calories.


You've got to admit that it's just a tad more rigorous than your original assertion on why diet sweeteners might be linked with weight gain, which was pure supposition, and involved no lab rats of any kind.

The study works, because the only thing that changes is the sweetener...the rats can exercise how they want, and they aren't fed a diet of either 100% sugar, or 100% aspartame (your zero tank analogy).

Being a chemical compound, with metabolic byproducts, aspartame may (and I say may) have other actions on either organs or nervous system, and is something other than "sweet with zero calories".

As an example...caffeine has no real calories, and is lab tested to reduce weight...and it's not your zero tank hypothesis.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-e...x-1226543639563

 

[apwillard1986]

"I think the study hint that artificial sweetener doesn't satisfy craving like normal sugar does, and there might be a balance between sweet taste and the amount of calorie intake. So if this balance is broken with artificial sweetener, the eaters would just stuff themselves with other food and actually causes more overeating."

I think this must be the case. You sure seem to see lots of folks shot-gunning diet sodas all day long. I have to believe that one regular soda a day would be better on the whole than eight or nine diet sodas.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
It's a sad testament to the mentality of the obese when they can't confront their problem and control their health. Much like an alcoholic who isn't able to control his drinking, it boils down to a lack of willpower and self control.


I totally disagree with this statement.

Do you think anyone wants to be obese? Do you think anyone wants to be an alcoholic? Don't you think these people have tried and tried to stop their addiction and have failed miserably?

If the solution really was will power and self-control, people wouldn't have these problems. These people would simply make up their minds to quit doing whatever destructive behavior they are doing, and they would move on with their lives.

I have witnessed a lot of people, upset and take a firm stand to change their situations. They make vows and promises. They set up a plan. They do this with the utmost sincerity. Most of the time, they do this with tears streaming down their faces and snot bubbles coming out of their noses. They are upset and determined. They would do anything to change....but they can't seem to, no matter how hard they try or what they try.

People like this require a spiritual experience to over come their dilemna.

Let me use myself as an example: I have a lot of will power. I graduated #1 in my high school class. Played in Burger King National High School football All-Star game. Was a double major in Chemistry and Physics at a prestigious undergraduate college while playing football. Obtained my graduate degree from Harvard. I studied and worked for the Air Force and NASA. Ended up in drug discovery for Eli Lilly in their Neuroscience division.....all by the age of 26.

Yet, despite all my awards and accolades, I became an over-weight alcoholic drug addict who ended up in prison for 5 years. Not a lot of guys with graduate degrees from Harvard in prison, let me tell you. I could, and did, anything I wanted to. I accomplished whatever I set my mind up to. But this was the only challenge I couldn't overcome. No matter how much I wanted to (and I did) or how much I needed to (boss, wife, and family on my back), I couldn't defeat this.

This has nothing to do with will power....if you are inflicted with the disease of addiction. If you can loose weight just by deciding you want to, or stop drinking because you make up your mind....you are not an addict. But those afflicted with the disease of addiction, they can do nothing about their problem.

The power to overcome these dilemnas must come from someplace else. Their only hope is to surrended and let something else change them.

I would have laughed at such a post if I would have read this 10 years ago. I would have thought this guy must be a quack. I have a head full of knowledge and nothing about the solution makes sense. But I've tried everything, and it's the only thing that worked....and I had to try everything, before I was willing to try this. Unfortunately, this is just how it works for most people.


You're welcome to believe what you like, but you'll find me lacking in compassion because you're not able to control what you choose to stick in your mouth (or veins).

Alcohol abuse, drug abuse and obesity is simply a choice some people make-nothing more. They choose to hide behind excuses for their behavior, but it was their choice to drink, use drugs, or over eat, and then wallow in a cesspool of self pity and attempt to shift the blame somewhere else.

Much of my family is very overweight, and some are obese. When I was in my early 20's I realized I was gaining a few pounds and make the decision to live a lifestyle that doesn't allow for obesity. I didn't hide behind the "genetics" excuse, I didn't hide behind any excuse at all-I simply took control of my life and my health and made a lifelong commitment. No different than anyone who is overweight can do, no different than anyone who is an alcoholic can do, no different than anyone who chooses to stick drugs in their veins can do. Now at nearly 69 years old I'm fit, I still jog on a regular basis, I have none of the health issues that plague many 40 and 50 year old guys, I take no prescription medications (nor any pills of any sort), and I'm still extremely active and feel great.

You can choose to be the master of your destiny, or you can choose to let life run you over. But you do indeed have a choice. The only thing to be laughed at is spending life cowering behind the excuse that addiction is a disease.

 

[daves87rs]

I can understand both points of this here....


Some of it is simply self control, but there is also the element of influence, whether family or otherwise.

 

[TheLoneRanger]

"If you eat a candy bar and wash it down with
a diet soda, they cancel each other out." - Unknown

About 6 years ago I lost 25 lbs. mostly by substituting diet sodas for regular. I believe that helped me with weight loss, but got me concerned with the health hazards of artificial sweeteners (Aspertane).

My doctor says they aren't harmful, but I ask him
the same question again every year. Just not convinced yet...

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
You've got to admit that it's just a tad more rigorous than your original assertion on why diet sweeteners might be linked with weight gain, which was pure supposition, and involved no lab rats of any kind.

That study was about as rigorous as overcooked spaghetti.

In a nutshell, this is what the researchers said in their Abstract:
"We conducted a certain study during which we made Observation X.
But you can't read anything into Observation X, since we didn't control for Variables Y and Z.
And we think Y and Z may have skewed the results."

At least the researchers are honest enough to admit the defects in their study.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The study works, because the only thing that changes is the sweetener...the rats can exercise how they want, and they aren't fed a diet of either 100% sugar, or 100% aspartame (your zero tank analogy).

The study does NOT work. If it did, the researchers would not have stated that they "suspect" that two uncontrolled variables may be responsible for the results they recorded.

If you have uncontrolled variables, then you have a potentially invalid test. And the researchers admit as much.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Being a chemical compound, with metabolic byproducts, aspartame may (and I say may) have other actions on either organs or nervous system, and is something other than "sweet with zero calories".

A reasonable hypothesis, but one that has never been shown to be true.

I remind you that water is also a chemical compound; the researchers "suspect" it to be a factor in weight-gain. That they "suspect" water-retention strongly implies that they did not run a control study with the same individual rats to determine a baseline for water-retention (and levels of physical activity).

Originally Posted By: Shannow
As an example...caffeine has no real calories, and is lab tested to reduce weight...and it's not your zero tank hypothesis.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-e...x-1226543639563

That page requires a login to see the text.

However, taking that study at your assertion, and assuming it to be scientifically valid, then it only shows caffeine to have properties that artificial sweeteners have not been shown to have.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: TheLoneRanger
About 6 years ago I lost 25 lbs. mostly by substituting diet sodas for regular. I believe that helped me with weight loss, but got me concerned with the health hazards of artificial sweeteners (Aspertane).

My doctor says they aren't harmful, but I ask him
the same question again every year. Just not convinced yet...

Aspartame has been on the market since 1984 (followed by several competitors), with billions upon billions of gallons of beverages sold. In almost 30-years, not one single case of any sort of health problem of any kind has been shown to definitively be traced to the use of Aspartame. The same cannot be said for cigarettes, which within 30-years were already producing cases of lung-cancer, and had earned the nickname "coffin nails".

Diabetes clinics often recommend diet drinks to save on calories. Better to fill up on that than on food.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
you'll find me lacking in compassion because you're not able to control what you choose to stick in your mouth (or veins).

If only the mind was that simple.

Fat people are fat for two simple reasons:
1) too many calories
2) too little exercise for the calories consumed.

You know that sort of "hollow" feeling you get in your stomach when you're hungry? Well, fat people have a tendency to find that feeling to be very uncomfortable and emotionally troubling; they spend much of their day trying to keep that feeling from happening. That's why they're constantly snacking with candies, chips, cookies, french fries, whatever they tend to like. You don't see it, but that's what they do. They're aware of what their constant snacking looks like to outsiders, so they hide it from people they know.

Ever dealt with a fat person on a diet? Chances are excellent that they spend much of their time talking about the diet they're on, and the food that they're not eating. That diet is a torture, an imposition. The goal ends up being almost meaningless.

"Fat" is largely an emotional thing, not a willpower thing. That's why it's so hard to stick to a diet: diets rob the emotion of the comfort that it's seeking.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Aspartame has been on the market since 1984 (followed by several competitors), with billions upon billions of gallons of beverages sold. In almost 30-years, not one single case of any sort of health problem of any kind has been shown to definitively be traced to the use of Aspartame.


Not one ?

ever ?

Got a link ?

 

[PR1955]

In a perfect world scenario, I would agree(of course in a perfect world, there would be no drug or weight problems). But most addictions are developed at a young age, when we are mentally and emotionally immature, and frequently do make bad decisions. Yes, the addict made a DECISION to consume drugs, or excessive food, or alcohol. But once an addiction has set in, it is NOT just a matter of willpower, it is a physical "need" for the body. Have you had any experience with an addict who sincerely wants to quit ? It is not just as simple as "stop". It takes an enormous amount of willpower, and often intervention and assistance of some sort.
An addict who is in denial, or just refuses to try, is not the same as an addict who wants to change, but does not posess the strength.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

You can choose to be the master of your destiny, or you can choose to let life run you over. But you do indeed have a choice. The only thing to be laughed at is spending life cowering behind the excuse that addiction is a disease.


Yeah, we are each the master of our own destinies. I applaud you for being in shape and healthy, and this has all come about because of your persistent strong will power.

But in the addict, addiction is self-will run riot. It's our perfectly normal instincts that have gotten way off kilter and out of balance.

I owe all my success to God and it is because of my addiction, that I have found Him. So actually, being an alcohoilc/drug addict is the best thing to have ever happened to me. It has ultimately enabled me to be the person that God meant me to be.

If I can control everything in my life with will-power, than why would I need God? You are in control. You are God. At the end of my day, I choose to rely on Him for strength to be the man I want to be, that He wants me to be. Because I have all the desire and intentions to be the best man I can be, but I lack the ability to carry that out.

 

[doitmyself]

Hi Pop Rivit and others.

I can appreciate your point of view, but contest it based on the idea that you have not "walked a mile in someone else's moccasins".

Have you ever dealt with a debilitating mental issue? Something as "simple" as depression, not even considering the really bad psychiatric diseases?

Keeping things simple, follow my analogy based on my limited education of the subject. Brain functions can "misfire" just like a car can misfire due to "bad wiring". Study about seratonin and it's function in the brain. With this situation, one cannot choose or will themselves to make the brain operate normal. It is a physical malfunction not unlike diabetes or other ailments. A person cannot choose or will these ailments away either. Lifestyle can certainly affect outcome, but I know of people with "perfect" lifestyles that still get cancer.

It's that simple. Choice and will cannot fix a physical/brain impairment. SOME people have this type of impairment regarding addictions and other mental issues. Choose not to rate it as a disease, if you wish. But, it is a physical condition that requires more than choice or will to manage in SOME people. Is that idea impossible to accept?

I am just asking people here with perfect lives to take my analogy into account regarding opinions about choice and will. Everyone is not the same as you.