Should I try Red Line oil?

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I have an '89 BMW 325i approaching 300k miles. I'd like the engine to last as long as possible before rebuild and it is in good shape now with solid compression. It's a nice engine design, straight-six, not particularly overstressed, no particular oiling problems or other issues with the design. I drive it ~30k/year and often tow motorcycles with it, 500-1000lb ttw.

There are lots of varnish-type deposits in the top end, ranging from light brown to black in color. It was like that when I got it and hasn't gotten better or worse.

I ran two full A-RX clean/rinse cycles a while back and it made no detectable difference in the way the engine ran or looked.

I have run a variety of oils, mostly Delo 15W-40 since I found BITOG, and have been happy with their performance but have not done any UOAs on the car. I do have a kit on the way for the most recent 6k run. My thinking has generally been that there will be no advantage to running a more expensive oil because no advantage ever shows up in UOAs. The recommended viscosity from below 0F to over 100F is 15W-50.

Lately I've been toying with trying Red Line oil. Here's why:

- I am curious whether the strong cleaning affect of the Grp V base will clean the varnish deposits. It's probably just cosmetic but I'd like it clean and, like I said, I'm curious.

- People who use it seem to swear by it and believe that they are getting better protection despite what UOAs say. They also swear it makes their engines run better. Again I'm curious and I want to see whether I become a believer.

- I would be happy to take advantage of longer OCIs if it's reasonably cost-effective.

I'd like to hear the opinions of folks out there in general, and I have a few specific questions:

Do you think there will be a noticeable cleaning effect?

If so, what will happen to the gunk that is cleaned? Will it be a problem?

What do you recommend as a first OCI on the stuff? If I do it I'll probably run at least two OCIs before deciding whether to switch back.

What grade should I run? Oils have come a long way since the manual was printed. I wouldn't mind going lighter for an economy benefit but also wouldn't mind sticking with a heavier weight to get the extra cushioning effects, if only for noise reduction benefits. Owners tend to believe that these cars like a heavier-weight oil, generally. Obviously I don't want to give up one ounce of engine protection.

Are there any grades of Red Line that are considered to have particularly exceptional qualities?

Thanks in advance for any feedback. I'll be sure to post UOAs with my results when the time comes.
 
Sure you could use it and it will probably clean to some degree. I also think M1 HM and 0w40 will clean as well. I've heard M1 0w40 cleans very well due to the grp V base oil component. Give the RL a shot.
 
First thing I consider is OEM recommended oil viscosity. Secondly, does that viscosity meet OEM specification.

Based on the information you have provided, I will second buster's recommendation of Mobil 1 0W-40.

I wouldn't consider any oil that didn't meet OEM spec.
 
Thanks for the replies so far.

I'm not going to run Mobil 1 or any other synthetic for the time being. It is Red Line that interests me because of its reputation and its Grp V chemistry.

I am also not concerned at all about specifications, only performance.
 
Originally Posted By: glennc
Are there any grades of Red Line that are considered to have particularly exceptional qualities?


From what I've been told by their head tech (Dave), the chemistries/add packs/base stock blends are very similar between all of their street grades, with the exception of their Euro 5W-40. This is the ONLY one in their lineup that they claim to have to add viscosity index improvers to in order to meet that range of weight.
All of the rest they claim meet their respective weight ranges solely on the virtue of the elasticity of their (supposedly) high group 5/ester base stocks.
But NO ONE it seems knows just what those percentages are (of group 5 vs. group 4 base stocks), and neither Dave, nor ANYONE else in that company are saying/willing to disclose this information (claiming 'proprietary info' as the rationale for this).
 
IMO it's gotta be either the 10w-40 or 5w-40. Your car seems to have no problem pumping 40-weights, and if the factory oil was a 50-weight dino from the late 80s then a modern 40-weight synthetic like Red Line should protect more than well enough.

If you drive the car year-round, I'd say go for the 5w-40. I highly doubt your car will be hard enough on that oil for shearing to be an issue. You might as well have the better cold flow properties.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: glennc
Are there any grades of Red Line that are considered to have particularly exceptional qualities?

But NO ONE it seems knows just what those percentages are (of group 5 vs. group 4 base stocks), and neither Dave, nor ANYONE else in that company are saying/willing to disclose this information (claiming 'proprietary info' as the rationale for this).

That's easy enough to get a rough estimate on by having an aniline point test done on a sample. A nice guy ran that test on 3 Mobil 1 samples I sent him. :) High ester content will give low aniline point.
 
redline is an excellent choice and far better oil then all the mainstreet oils i been using for years in my fords..i would not use anyy other oil...i think you will be very pleased..stay away from run of the mill cheapened mobil 1, castrol products pennzoils.etc.this is my experiences
 
i am nobody for sure.

Would I run redline in a 300,000 mile motor?

U r kidding, right?

If a guy has to do what he has to do, he has to do it.

i would spend five minutes w/ a magazine, but then i aint the one w/ the redline fixation..........
 
We rarely see Redline reports because the UOA's have been not that good. I don't think Redline is any better than M1/PP/Amsoil for daily drivers. Their racing oils might be.
 
Originally Posted By: glennc


I ran two full A-RX clean/rinse cycles a while back and it made no detectable difference in the way the engine ran or looked.

Lately I've been toying with trying Red Line oil. Here's why:

- I am curious whether the strong cleaning affect of the Grp V base will clean the varnish deposits.

You kidding right? If ARX couldn’t help – nothing will.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
But NO ONE it seems knows just what those percentages are (of group 5 vs. group 4 base stocks), and neither Dave, nor ANYONE else in that company are saying/willing to disclose this information (claiming 'proprietary info' as the rationale for this).

That's easy enough to get a rough estimate on by having an aniline point test done on a sample. A nice guy ran that test on 3 Mobil 1 samples I sent him. :) High ester content will give low aniline point.


Care to share the results? Or summarize here if you've shared the results before? Am curious....
 
Originally Posted By: bigjeffie
Would I run redline in a 300,000 mile motor?

U r kidding, right?


No.
 
Originally Posted By: gaspo
Originally Posted By: glennc
I ran two full A-RX clean/rinse cycles a while back and it made no detectable difference in the way the engine ran or looked.

- I am curious whether the strong cleaning affect of the Grp V base will clean the varnish deposits.

You kidding right? If ARX couldn’t help – nothing will.


No, I'm not kidding.

Why won't Red Line help?
 
Quote:

Why won't Red Line help?


Probably because it is designed to lubricate, not clean; arx is designed to clean.

Pointed question: if Redline DOESN'T clean your engine are you going to be disappointed with its performance?
 
Originally Posted By: glennc

Care to share the results? Or summarize here if you've shared the results before? Am curious....


I posted this in a thread in the Euro oil forum:

"Mobil 1 Aniline points

5W-40 TDT (Turbo Diesel Truck): 276F
0W-40: 254F
10W-30 High Mileage: 248F

A common TMP ester used in PCMO
Mobil's SpectraSyn Plus PAO of 6 cst viscosity has an aniline point of 257F. http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Public...traSyn_Plus.pdf

I don't know what effect on aniline point additive packages have. Also, maybe Bruce's equipment doesn't match Mobil's exactly. But...

276F for 5W-40 TDT is high and with such low values for esters I don't think it could have much in it. Delvac 1 has also shown near zero values for oxidation in VOAs which indicates there's not much ester in it. Esters have oxygen atoms in them so are picked up in the oxidation test."
 
If you are going to run Redline based primarily on its cleaning ability, I think you may be wasting money. It's a great oil that really works well in stressed engines with turbos, etc, but in your situation would be overkill, IMO. I would think that you would get more continuous cleaning from running your current HDEO with a 3 or 4 oz. maintenance dose of ARX every oil change. As a side benefit of the ARX, it adds some additional wear protection and friction reduction.

Heck, if you want it visibly clean up top, get some Schaeffers Neutra and run 1-2 oz per quart of engine oil for 500-1000 miles at the end of several consecutive oil changes. PM "Mokanic" here, as I believe this is what he does to clean up engines before switching them to Schaeffer blends or full synthetic oils. Neutra is not anything like an engine flush. It pours like a lighter weight oil and has lubricating ability. This is the same stuff that can be used in gas or diesel fuel systems for cleanup and lube ability. A very versatile product, and not really expensive, either.

Bottom line is Redline will keep an engine clean while protecting the engine against wear even in severe operating environments. Redline may possibly do SOME additional cleaning as will several other synthetics. But ARX (including maintenace dose) or a couple runs of Neutra will clean way more than a synthetic oil alone will do.
 
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We do dyno runs on many engines and Red Line performs well under stress. Our opinion of Mobil 1 0w-40 is that it is a good 30 weight oil, that is under stress the already thin 40 weight oil becomes a 30 weight(no flames please).

I'm interested in your Auto-Rx results. Removing varnish and stains that you can see looking in the valve cover oil fill hole is not the way to evaluate its performance. Auto-Rx goes after deposits and the area you are looking at does not have much oil flow. Varnish until it becomes really dark and wide spread is mostly a cosmetic issue. I think your treatments did remove stuff but you had a hard time seeing the results. If you have just finished the Auto-Rx cycles you might want to try a 15w-40 like Delo 400 with a maintenance does of Auto-Rx for a few cycles. You will get the lubrication you need and be able to handle the ongoing removal of deposits that were attacked by Auto-Rx but have not migrated out into the oil stream yet. You can run a few short intervals with Delo and oil filters for the price of one oil change with Red Line. I think this would be a better plan to use the diesel/gas grade 15w-40 for a few changes. If you can afford it I also think you should get a uoa from Terry Dyson. Be careful about anyone else. You need a base line if you are going to use Red Line because Red Line is a bit different from most other engine oils and is not often misunderstood by the average lab tech. Many trash mouth Red Line without ever having used it because they somehow know better. Don't be misled. It's a very good oil. Coming here and gathering information will serve you well. Let us know what you figure out.
 
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