Should C.A.F.E standards be raised even higher?

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Originally Posted By: Trav
Social Justice has failed in every single country that has tried it.





I fail to see how raising fuel economy is a form of "social justice". Which I am against BTW. I feel that is a huge problem in this country as well. As is a certain border that remains basically open.
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You guys need to lighten up a little.

CAFE, IMO, is a useless gov't acronym that does nothing! How many other programs are just as bad?

TAXES, definitely not wanted but allows ECONOMICS to come into play. I'm against ANY tax but we need a BIG fuel tax to reduce our rampant consumption. Economics? all I remember is bread or guns on a silly chart. But, I think lifestyle or fuel might fall on that same chart.

Lollipop economics WILL NOT WORK. Subsidizing ethanol, hybrids, electric vehicles... is a guaranteed FAILURE. Free lollipops will not make the world quit smoking. Free milk won't stop someone from boozing. Heavy cigarette taxes has caused a reduction in smoking. Its the same with your FUEL! Imagine how much booze you could drink if there were no alcohol taxes? The tax is a simple way to reduce or control consumption since prohibition of alcohol, fuel, food, cigarettes will just not work.

If you can afford it, who cares. If you can't, then ADJUST or get skinny. Thats it!

Eliminate CAFE. Eliminate subsidies.

I'm glad to see that some have noticed how pathetic our roads are. Yes, we need to get rid of tolls that keep us idling, wasting fuel, and going nowhere. Not an efficient use of time or fuel. And, in the northeast, do they actually pave the roads or are the roads a byproduct of military weapons testing? Potholes everywhere killing tires, alignment(mpg), causing excessive steering issues, brake wear..... Some of that tax increase can fix the roads and eliminate those tolls and issues. Smooth paved roads are not bad for social engineering. Not having to spend 3hrs on the bridge before NYC too would be a fix to that social injustice.

I enjoy the comments from the Canadians(border so close but lifestyle/education/thinking process so interesting). Sad, but they sometimes make us look like we flushed common sense down the toilet. Your Utopia isn't as great as you think it is. But, at least you TRY. Why does it seem that so many of us, in the USA, have given up?

We passed a recycling law years ago. We recycled by using garbage and recycling bins which were kept separate on garbage day. But over the years, everyone forgot how to recycle. So, we had to pass a new law that, if there was no recycling bin with stuff in it, the regular garbage would not be picked up. Its time to increase the US gas tax since we're not making enough of an effort on our own.

The reason why industry and homes aren't addressed is because its not seen. Trucks/suvs are seen everywhere and are an easy target as "gross wasteful consumers". I can't order you to wear a sweater to reduce your home heating bill because I can't see through your walls. And, we like going to work so we don't attack the 'employers' utility bill either.

With hurricanes, earthquakes, and tornadoes, I think that nuclear power needs to be questioned. Electric vehicles are not feasible.
 
Some of you guys just kill me. If Western Europe is this devastated Soviet prison, then why does it never change? Why do they keep electing these horrible socialist governments over and over again? Why are their voting rates so much HIGHER than the US?

Holy cow, take off the tinfoil hats.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I enjoy the comments from the Canadians(border so close but lifestyle/education/thinking process so interesting). Sad, but they sometimes make us look like we flushed common sense down the toilet. Your Utopia isn't as great as you think it is. But, at least you TRY. Why does it seem that so many of us, in the USA, have given up?


Thanks for the support! Canada has its advantages and disadvantages compared to the U.S. but, like the U.S., many are specific to certain regions. Maybe I reinforce the positive aspects of my region more than I should. Regardless, I really shouldn't be commenting on American policy unless it directly affects me or if I can contribute some useful information rather than just an opinion. Most of my automotive media is American-based so CAFE is something I end up reading about often and my desire to vent got the better of me.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
BIG TIME! This thread is full of progressive/socialist political rhetoric but it is being allowed to stay open?


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I know, right? I mean my Gosh, you and your people (or "side") are sooooo under represented on this site you can't get in a word edgewise! (sarcasm)

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Rasie CAFE standards and raise them high! My truck gets 19 MPG on a good day.
Hopefully, my next truck will get better MPG rating thanks to CAFE. What's wrong with that?
 
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Rasie CAFE standards and raise them high! My truck gets 19 MPG on a good day.
Hopefully, my next truck will get better MPG rating thanks to CAFE. What's wrong with that?



You just don't get it.

Your truck doesn't get poor mileage because of low CAFE standards, it gets poor gas mileage because it's a truck, it's big, heavy and probably has a big V8 engine. All these traits are actually handy when the truck is utilized as it was intended to.

CAFE will not change the laws of phisics, if you want a truck that can haul, it will drink lots of gas. Unless of course you want trucks with less capability, maybe jacked up minivans like Ridgeline, just for the looks?
 
I'm completely against higher fuel taxes (or any other "sin" tax) for the purpose of reducing consumption. This would be the worst one of all because unlike cigarette or alcohol tax, you can't really opt out from using gas and using gas isn't exactly the same as a bad habit.

I'm against artificially limiting consumption with the end result of something, in this case gas, costing more than its real market scarcity would dictate. I'm not for it either but I'd rather just see a gas guzzler tax on low gas milage vehicles. Of course, I don't believe gasoline demand is the real reason for high gas prices at this time. Actual producers and consumers should be setting gas prices and supply and demand, not government taxes, CAFE or wallstreet. Gas taxes should be for road repairs only, which are solely needed.
 
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Rasie CAFE standards and raise them high! My truck gets 19 MPG on a good day.
Hopefully, my next truck will get better MPG rating thanks to CAFE. What's wrong with that?

So buy a truck that gets better fuel mileage, or an even more radical idea, buy a different vehicle that meets the requirements that improves your fuel mileage. It isn't CAFE's fault your truck only gets 19 mpg on a good day.

Anyone else amused when the statements generally run along the lines of I approve higher costs for someone except when they impact my particular choice?
 
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Rasie CAFE standards and raise them high! My truck gets 19 MPG on a good day.
Hopefully, my next truck will get better MPG rating thanks to CAFE. What's wrong with that?

The fact that you think the responsibility of picking a vehicle that fits your needs and budget falls on a government entity is whats wrong with that.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Nayov
Rasie CAFE standards and raise them high! My truck gets 19 MPG on a good day.
Hopefully, my next truck will get better MPG rating thanks to CAFE. What's wrong with that?

The fact that you think the responsibility of picking a vehicle that fits your needs and budget falls on a government entity is whats wrong with that.

Exactly, the market will produce what people want. If it was currently possible to build a truck that got 30mpg , was heavy enough and had enough engine to pull 7-8000lbs and did not do any more damage to a small vehicle than another small vehicle, don't you think the automakers would already be producing them?. Ford is getting the echoboost v-6 that will tow and some say it gets 20mpg on the highway unloaded. My point is if its possible and the PEOPLE want it, it will be produced. Taxing or Penalizing only hurts the market.
 
So..."the market will produce what the people want" huh? Nothing to do with CAFE, and this is kind of off topic; but if that's so..Than apparently the "PEOPLE"(American consumer) want to buy products from other countries (namely China). Because they are cheaper. So what if there are toxic metals in some of the kids jewelry, and lead paint on kids toys. No one cares. So what if those products used to be manufactured in the U.S.(minus the toxic metals, and lead paint)providing jobs that will probably never come back. No one Cares!
You know what spasm3? I agree with you. The market does produce what the(majority of the) people want. Unfortunately, what the consumer wants, may not always be what is best for the future.
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Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I enjoy the comments from the Canadians(border so close but lifestyle/education/thinking process so interesting). Sad, but they sometimes make us look like we flushed common sense down the toilet. Your Utopia isn't as great as you think it is. But, at least you TRY. Why does it seem that so many of us, in the USA, have given up?


Thanks for the support! Canada has its advantages and disadvantages compared to the U.S. but, like the U.S., many are specific to certain regions. Maybe I reinforce the positive aspects of my region more than I should. Regardless, I really shouldn't be commenting on American policy unless it directly affects me or if I can contribute some useful information rather than just an opinion. Most of my automotive media is American-based so CAFE is something I end up reading about often and my desire to vent got the better of me.


Don't apologise for having an opinion on the American automotive policy just because CAFE is not applied in Canada. Our market choice is 99% driven by what happens in the U.S. because our auto industry is integrated.
 
Kender you hit the nail on the head.

Americans and what they want and everyone else can go to H--- doesn't cut it in the global scheme of things anymore.

Sometimes we need others to lead the way and take us on the right path.

We may not like change but it happens.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Kender you hit the nail on the head.

Americans and what they want and everyone else can go to H--- doesn't cut it in the global scheme of things anymore.

Sometimes we need others to lead the way and take us on the right path.

We may not like change but it happens.


Thanks.
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If the folks who want government to get out of the way and not distort the marketplace, then I really hope they're lobbying to end any and all government subsidies to oil companies. I can't think of a faster way to send the price of gas to $8/gal than getting government out of the way and let the oil companies fund their own work and pay taxes just like everyone else.
 
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Originally Posted By: antonmnster
If the folks who want government to get out of the way and not distort the marketplace, then I really hope they're lobbying to end any and all government subsidies to oil companies. I can't think of a faster way to send the price of gas to $8/gal than getting government out of the way and let the oil companies fund their own work and pay taxes just like everyone else.


The oil companies can raise the price of gas to whatever they want in one hand, and chit in the other and see which one fills up first. The price of gas can only be as high as consumers can afford to pay. Oil companies still have to be able to sell their product to make a profit, which is why gas prices have quit going up over the last week. Apparently, the economy can't support $4 gas, let alone $8 gas...
 
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It's WAYYYYYY too late on the gov't distorting your marketplace!!!

They've got their fingers in too many places already.

Oil is pretty much done rising, but not because that's all we'll pay.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Oil is pretty much done rising, but not because that's all we'll pay.


Really? You think the oil companies are now all of a sudden generous and caring?
 
Originally Posted By: fsskier
+1, no +100!!

Living easily within ones income is so full of huge benefits.... but the forces of marketing and advertising suck in the gullible!!

Earlier I also noted a poster bemoaning small "slow" cars. Perhaps he had not noted that a lot of these cars are quicker than SUVs, Pickups, large cars, etc, indeed a few are rockets.
The 0-60 time on my wife's Corolla is the same as the stunning quick Chrysler 300 in the 50's.


This is SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem with letting the market dictate demand for vehicles based on fuel prices in the absence of any fuel mileage regulations is that people will continue buying lower fuel mileage gas hogs because they can, even when they really can't afford them. They do it by going into DEBT. I see it all the time. People are lemmings, They are sheep. They think they must have the latest SUV or gas hog sedans with 400 hp because that is what marketing tells them they need to stay within the norms of society, and then ultimately society tells them they need in order to fit in.

I get looked down upon (by stupid sheep) for driving a Toyota Corolla all the time. I laugh!

One of the best days of my life was when I finally awakened to the fact that our system based on marketing and false promise that simply enriches huge multi-national corporations is a joke. I'm not going to go into debt just so someone won't look down on me for driving a compact car. It is fun to listen young women [censored] and whine at the gas pump while filling up their ego booster SUVs and putting the bill on their credit cards with 20 grand on their balance!
 
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