shift pattern - is there a purpose?

[widman]

After almost a week of a Toyota Sienna rental, I still can't figure out why they have an annoying zig-zag pattern to the automatic trans lever. No you really have to look at where you are zigging, and pushing it up to park ends up in reverse unless you zag. My daughter's Odessey is a simple movement like my BMW. Straight up and back with simple stops.

Does anyone know why the've come up with this?

 

[moribundman]

Probably it's just a solution in search of a problem.

 

[bullwinkle]

It's related to the old Ford problem of "jumping" into reverse by accident-they're trying to prevent unwanted (careless?) gear changes (& related liability issues!). My old Mercedes actually even has the "zig-zag", & even most column shifters now make you push on the brake to get the shifter out of Park (Fords anyway).

 

[H2GURU]

I'm inclined to think that "they" let the designers have a little input into this as they are trying to lend an air of coolness to these vehicles by making the shifter almost appear to be a manual trannsmission? I do beleive BMW was the first to lend this look to their vehicles about 10 years ago.

 

[JHZR2]

Toyota copies MB. Even my 1981 MB has this same pattern... however it works, no getting stuck in reverse.

In reality, LOTS of cars have had this sort of thing.

Arent BMW automatic transmissions made by GM and don't honda automatic transmissions suck? I dont know if id use either as a model of good...

JMH

 

[widman]

My BMW transmission is ZF.

 

[exranger06]

My 92 Honda has the regular straight line shift pattern and it has a reverse lockout. It won't shift into reverse unless you press the button on the shifter. Came in handy just last week when my hand bumped it into neutral (and would have knocked in straight to reverse)while moving

It also won't shift out of park unless you press on the brake pedal. However, I think these weird-shift-pattern shifters don't have that button and maybe that's why they have this weird pattern instead?

 

[Silk]

A lot of British cars used this wiggle gate when they started to fit autos in the '60's and '70's - Triumph 2000,XJ6 Jag,Mini's etc.My Mercedes C220 has one,and it doesn't bother me at all.

What I do hate is when the 1st stop is 2nd,or in the case of Honda 2 slots back....they go D4,D3,D2.My Pajero is just the one stop back to drive - knock it back to the stop from neutral and go.

 

[MGregoir]

My car is straight gate, brake to get out of park, can shift reverse to neutral and drive to neutral but not neutral to reverse without brake, and you can upshift without stops.

Downshifting you need the button, and into reverse you need the button.

 

[firemachine69]

I don't even have a button (ECT). Hence the 'yota zig-zag that you are referring to.

 

[Anduril]

I supposedly have an electronically controlled transmission, but still have a button.

 

[oilyriser]

It gets rid of the button, which is a potential failure point.

 

[demarpaint]

Sounds like an OK idea. I had three Fords from the 60's and one from the 70's that jumped out of park into Reverse, when starting. I just passed my road test on a 66 Falcon, and went out for a ride, started the Falcon and it jumped into reverse. I was lucky, and quickly learned to start in in Neutral with my foot on the brake.

I had a 70 Maverick, which I gave to a buddy that owned an auto parts store to use for deliveries. He was just starting out, and I was going to junk it. I told him about the Park, Reverse issue it had, and never to leave it running unattended. He had a guy do a delivery, and left the car running in park, it hopped into Reverse and knocked a gas pump down.

Frank D

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Toyota copies MB. Even my 1981 MB has this same pattern... however it works, no getting stuck in reverse.

In reality, LOTS of cars have had this sort of thing.

Arent BMW automatic transmissions made by GM and don't honda automatic transmissions suck? I dont know if id use either as a model of good...


BMW used GM automatics in the 5-series and probably others for a few years, I think in the early 2000's. They've probably since moved on to other models. It seems that all companies (including GM) just use whatever fits the application best, there are more than a few GM cars that have Aisin transmissions now.

Honda automatics are awful, I'd never buy a car with a Honda automatic. For a while I know there were Honda ric--racers who would drop the POS Honda slushbox out of their Accord and swap in the GM 4T65-E. Might be the best FWD automatic out there.

As for the zig-zag shift pattern, I always thought that it began with Merc many years ago. I still don't like it as much as the double H.

 

[Tosh]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
It gets rid of the button, which is a potential failure point.

Plus it forces you to pay attention and watch where you're placing the lever AND gives a slight sideways position motion and visual feedback AND doesn't shift into moving gear by accidentally knocking lever, so old people are less likely to make a mistake and run themselves over.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Tosh
so old people are less likely to make a mistake and run themselves over.


How do you run yourself over while sitting in the car?

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Tosh
so old people are less likely to make a mistake and run themselves over.


How do you run yourself over while sitting in the car?

Husband running over the wife who's outside...

 

[ThirdeYe]

Originally Posted By: Silk
A lot of British cars used this wiggle gate when they started to fit autos in the '60's and '70's - Triumph 2000,XJ6 Jag,Mini's etc.My Mercedes C220 has one,and it doesn't bother me at all.

What I do hate is when the 1st stop is 2nd,or in the case of Honda 2 slots back....they go D4,D3,D2.My Pajero is just the one stop back to drive - knock it back to the stop from neutral and go.


For most Honda automatic transmissions it goes like this: P-R-N-D4-D3-2-1, what do you mean by the first stop is second? Just don't quite understand what you're trying to say.. or maybe something's just going over my head again.

 

[Max_Wander]

oilyriser, I've yet to come across a lock pushbutton that has failed, is that common? I imagine the zig zag is just cheaper to manufacture, while providing that "cool, it's like a Benz" factor.

 

[FrozenPilot]

The zig-zag pattern is kinda nice once you get used to it. No button to press, just hold the brake and shift. However, Toyota decided to have '3' to the left of 'D', so that when you shift from 'R' to 'D' and a back and left angle, you often end up in '3'. Of course, I've seen people drive off in Mazdas in 'M' mode and drive around in 2nd gear all afternoon. That was one of the factors on the exhaust overheat recall on the Mazda 5 when they came out.