Scented fuel?

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N4cer,

The challenge of your project is that the modern exhaust gas management systems of both diesel and gasoline street vehicles (EGR, catalytic converters, etc.) will tend to break down the aroma compounds (terpenes, esters, aromatics, etc..) that you introduce through the fuel system.

Another problem might arise with the computer managed fuel/ignition system and a "re-tune" might be required to overcome the effects of: 1)increased inlet manifold pressure and reduced throttling losses, 2) heat rejection...lowered peak combustion temperatures not only reduces NOx formation, it also reduces the loss of thermal energy to combustion chamber surfaces,and 3. chemical dissociation.....lower peak temperatures result in more of the released energy remaining as sensible energy near TDC, rather than being bound up in the dissociation of combustion products.

The Manhattan Oil fuel fragrances you cite are used in racing, aviation, motorcycles, and outdoor power applications that don't have these exhaust management systems. Manhattan Oil even recommends reduced efficacy of their product in catalytic systems.

In the research I assisted on some years ago utilizing the terpene Thujone (shown below), the CH3 would "break apart" under the conditions explained above.
110px-%28%2B%29-alpha-Thujon.svg.png


You would be wiser to design a system that introduces an essential oil at the end of the exhaust system.
 
Rg200amp: I asked for facts and got none. So what exactly are you talking about?

Once again you guys are acting like this is some idea that I invented. That's just not the case. It already exists. I'm just wondering if anybody has experienced a cheaper way to do it. The stupid little insults don't matter to me because you guys are acting like it's my original idea. Try to wrap your minds around A PRODUCT AND MARKET ALREADY EXIST. Ok? I IN NO WAY AM PIONEERING THE CONCEPT. So stop telling me why it's a bad idea to have scented exhaust, when it doesn't matter in the slightest bit.

Just give your EXPERIENCE or basically get out. Just kidding. I know your little frail egos would never let it go after this. You're way too ignorant as proven by your posts that act like this is a new concept. Uh I included links to existing products. They aren't mine. Wow!
 
Doitmyself: thank you for grasping the concept. I never imagined on a board with such intelligent people the responses would be so um, interesting. Haha.

The target audience already removes that emissions garbage as soon as they get vehicles. These are guys who drag race their street cars. Emissions equipment is immediately removed and tuned out. So that problem isn't there.

I fully grasp the risks you're proposing. I however doubt they'll matter at least in the diesels because those things burn any oil: ATF, motor oil, veg oil, kerosene, mineral oil, 2cycle. Some burn over 50% waste oils. So I don't see a small fraction of a kerosene or mineral oil based product causing predetonation or a latent burn. Especially since modern diesels have a latent injection event to burn any of the unburned fuels one last time.

Yes my wording sucks but I'm trying to type it while doing other stuff and well, honestly, you're very obviously smart enough to get the gist. Thanks for being adult and offering some good discussion.
 
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Originally Posted By: N4cer
Rg200amp: I asked for facts and got none. So what exactly are you talking about?

Once again you guys are acting like this is some idea that I invented. That's just not the case. It already exists. I'm just wondering if anybody has experienced a cheaper way to do it. The stupid little insults don't matter to me because you guys are acting like it's my original idea. Try to wrap your minds around A PRODUCT AND MARKET ALREADY EXIST. Ok? I IN NO WAY AM PIONEERING THE CONCEPT. So stop telling me why it's a bad idea to have scented exhaust, when it doesn't matter in the slightest bit.

Just give your EXPERIENCE or basically get out. Just kidding. I know your little frail egos would never let it go after this. You're way too ignorant as proven by your posts that act like this is a new concept. Uh I included links to existing products. They aren't mine. Wow!


What are you talking about? I never said it was your idea. I know that these products have been out for a while.
I am saying it's a pointless product. If you think it is going to be "cool" go ahead and do it. Impress all the 17 year olds you can.

I never told you it was a bad idea. I said It is a pointless, dumb idea.

Do what you want. No one cares about it , or your childish attitude. Take your insults to another forum.
 
The attitude here is that I somehow asked for input on the product in general. When I asked specifically for facts and experience related to finding an alternative that is cheaper. Yes for financial gain. I know nothing about rivers. I'm an LSx guy myself, but it's been the alcohol burning big blocks that used it every time but one, and he was a gasoline BBC.

So why did you (and others) comment when you had nothing to offer on the experience or facts regarding the product?
 
Originally Posted By: N4cer
The attitude here is that I somehow asked for input on the product in general. When I asked specifically for facts and experience related to finding an alternative that is cheaper. Yes for financial gain. I know nothing about rivers. I'm an LSx guy myself, but it's been the alcohol burning big blocks that used it every time but one, and he was a gasoline BBC.

So why did you (and others) comment when you had nothing to offer on the experience or facts regarding the product?


Dude. I don't think your understanding. Having your exhaust fumes smell like cherry or whatever scent, is a stupid and pointless thing.

Your wanting facts.

Fact is, I, along with many people, think people that worry about scenting their fuels are funny as all [censored].

While ur adding the fuel scents, you may want to glue some fake air vents on your hood. Oooo and tint your tail lights to!
 
Try to keep up. I'm not trying to find out if you like it. Save your breath. No need to let it bother you. You just really have no reason to post since I don't care if anybody approves. Just wondering if an alternative works or not because there's a market for it that I'd love to capitalize on. You don't have to like drag cars or the many guys that use the scent at the track, but it's there and your disapproval doesn't change it. So what do you want to result from your posts? Let's get to it so you can get out and stop babbling. What is your goal in posting in this thread?
 
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: N4cer
The attitude here is that I somehow asked for input on the product in general. When I asked specifically for facts and experience related to finding an alternative that is cheaper. Yes for financial gain. I know nothing about rivers. I'm an LSx guy myself, but it's been the alcohol burning big blocks that used it every time but one, and he was a gasoline BBC.

So why did you (and others) comment when you had nothing to offer on the experience or facts regarding the product?


Dude. I don't think your understanding. Having your exhaust fumes smell like cherry or whatever scent, is a stupid and pointless thing.

Your wanting facts.

Fact is, I, along with many people, think people that worry about scenting their fuels are funny as all [censored].

While ur adding the fuel scents, you may want to glue some fake air vents on your hood. Oooo and tint your tail lights to!



Funny how this guy complains about attitude when his own is so much further down the scale.

No reason to add scent to fuel.

Here's another fact. MMO adds a faint scent of wintergreen.

Here's another. You ain't going to smell it while driving.
 
None of that matters to me. The thing that matters is what customers claim they experience and what causes them to buy it. And you DO smell it in a performance vehicle when sitting still, which is over half the time you're at the track. Have you never even been? So you're commenting on a product you've got zero knowledge of, and an activity you've got zero experience in. Good idea. Let's keep this going. I love watching people make themselves look illiterate.
 
Does making fuel smell nice have any benefits for the fuel system?

Lubricate the fuel pump/seals/injectors?

Clean the fuel system and scavenge water that ethanol attracts?

Provide a film of protection in our fuel system to stop corrosion?

Act as a cleaner for our spark plugs/valves/combustion chambers?

Clean the ring packs?

Leave a film on the cylinder walls to eliminate cold start metal wear?

If making fuel smell nice does none of the above, then there is no reason to do it.

No amount of infantile insults will change that.
 
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I don't know about the oil for oil warmers.....you're gonna need some "uber concentrated" to have any lasting scent when it comes out of your exhaust.....


But yea, I can understand why products like this are not on the market; gas/exhaust smells HORRIBLE for a reason, to STOP people from huffing it. Why put a product on the Walmart and AAP shelves to make the exhaust smell like orange peels, after all this work has been done to make the exhaust purposely smell horrible, give you headaches, etc....hehe.

Another option, would be to go to these "race companies" who sell the "gas-scents" and pull their Material Safety Data Sheets, to see if it's something you could "reverse engineer" the product with over-the-counter-esque concoctions
smile.gif




But as far as the oil warmer oils, I'd pull the MSDS for those, and see if they are truely "oil" - they may have trace amounts of water within the "oil" so the product "goes further" and "looks like more" hehe.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Does making fuel smell nice have any benefits for the fuel system?

Lubricate the fuel pump/seals/injectors?

Clean the fuel system and scavenge water that ethanol attracts?

Provide a film of protection in our fuel system to stop corrosion?

Act as a cleaner for our spark plugs/valves/combustion chambers?

Clean the ring packs?

Leave a film on the cylinder walls to eliminate cold start metal wear?

If making fuel smell nice does none of the above, then there is no reason to do it.

No amount of infantile insults will change that.
It draws attention, and that's why some people do it. As I said, whether I believe it to have medical proof wasn't asked, but people REPORT less headaches when sensitive to the smell. I actually don't think it makes sense but I wasn't asked. I just know they report it.

Originally Posted By: ahoier
I don't know about the oil for oil warmers.....you're gonna need some "uber concentrated" to have any lasting scent when it comes out of your exhaust.....


But yea, I can understand why products like this are not on the market; gas/exhaust smells HORRIBLE for a reason, to STOP people from huffing it. Why put a product on the Walmart and AAP shelves to make the exhaust smell like orange peels, after all this work has been done to make the exhaust purposely smell horrible, give you headaches, etc....hehe.

Another option, would be to go to these "race companies" who sell the "gas-scents" and pull their Material Safety Data Sheets, to see if it's something you could "reverse engineer" the product with over-the-counter-esque concoctions
smile.gif




But as far as the oil warmer oils, I'd pull the MSDS for those, and see if they are truely "oil" - they may have trace amounts of water within the "oil" so the product "goes further" and "looks like more" hehe.
Thanks for the input man. Good thoughts.
My issue isn't really whats in the marketed products. It's what's in the shelf products. Water is bad. I'll look at the MSDS on the shelf products like you said. Good idea.

As for the smell, you're talking about people with just a few gallons in a tank at an event. It's not really at risk for huffing. So that's not an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Funny how this guy complains about attitude when his own is so much further down the scale.


Have you read how he was talking to members here?!?!?!?

I will give this guy attitude all day and all night. He wants to name call and get bent because he does not like to replys he is getting.

He acts like a kid. So i'll treat him like one.
 
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Have you read how he was talking to members here?!?!?!?
You mean the people who are babbling about their opinion of the product?
 
Originally Posted By: N4cer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Have you read how he was talking to members here?!?!?!?
You mean the people who are babbling about their opinion of the product?


The product???

What product? The scented LAMP OIL your asking US if you can put it in your fuel tank!?!?!?!?!?!
Originally Posted By: N4cer
Is there any chance that I could use the scented oils like for oil warmers? Like from walmart. Or even the scented lamp oil?



lol.gif


This is tooo funny.
 
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: N4cer
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Have you read how he was talking to members here?!?!?!?
You mean the people who are babbling about their opinion of the product?


The product???

What product? The scented LAMP OIL your asking US if you can put it in your fuel tank!?!?!?!?!?!
Originally Posted By: N4cer
Is there any chance that I could use the scented oils like for oil warmers? Like from walmart. Or even the scented lamp oil?



lol.gif


This is tooo funny.




crackmeup2.gif
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: Trajan


Funny how this guy complains about attitude when his own is so much further down the scale.


Have you read how he was talking to members here?!?!?!?

I will give this guy attitude all day and all night. He wants to name call and get bent because he does not like to replys he is getting.

He acts like a kid. So i'll treat him like one.


Yep, I've read it. Haven't seen such vitriol since the Great Synlube Push.

The OP has been around since 06, one would think by now that making fuel smell purdy, since it does nothing but make it palatible for huffing, isn't something that comes up.

People who are around decomposing bodies. like MEs or cops, put something on just under the nostrils to deal with the smell.

But then again, you don't get to brag "My exhaust smells like Chanel #5!!"
 
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Well, he did ask what intelligent people thought. He found out that intelligent people don't want to make their exhaust smell purdy.

Ed
 
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