S55 AMG very high oil consumpiton hard driving

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
I just bought Mobil1 5w50. That's the safest solution. Little bit thicker than M1 0w40 and still meets MB 229.3/1. However, I am seduced by ester-based oils and I really would like to try one of them.



That is a very good starting point. Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: il_signore97

This car likely has a pcv system with an oil separator like most German vehicles do including mine. No real serviceable parts. If something is not working, it needs diagnosis and replacement.


Would it be similar to the system used in turbo Volvo engines and Saab engines?

I know turbo engines have complex PCV systems, but do supercharged engines also have complex PCV systems?




That I cannot answer as I'm not familiar with the PCV systems in a Volvo or Saab. Also, it would have nothing to do with being supercharged or turbocharged. My car is naturally aspirated but still has an oil separator device instead of a replaceable PCV valve. Turbocharging / Supercharging can affect PCV plumbing design, but does not necessarily affect the oil separator design itself as it's function remains the same (just more potential blow by to deal with in a boosted application).

 

[Gokhan]

I am guessing that 5W-30 you are using is ACEA A3/B4; so, it's not that much thinner than 10W-40.

I would have your valve-stem oil seals replaced. They are probably junked from all the high-speed driving and aging and you're effectively driving without valve-stem oil seals. You can't fix a broken engine by using a different oil.

Here is the procedure:

Wonders of valve-stem oil seal replacement

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I am guessing that 5W-30 you are using is ACEA A3/B4; so, it's not that much thinner than 10W-40.



Mercedes Benz begs to differ with your statement... They specifically state that although 229.5 approved oils encompass 0W30, 5W30, 0W40, and 5W40 grades, AMG engines are specifically required to use a minimum of xW40 grade oils with no exceptions.

Right from the horse's mouth...

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I am guessing that 5W-30 you are using is ACEA A3/B4; so, it's not that much thinner than 10W-40.

Mercedes Benz begs to differ with your statement... They specifically state that although 229.5 approved oils encompass 0W30, 5W30, 0W40, and 5W40 grades, AMG engines are specifically required to use a minimum of xW40 grade oils with no exceptions.

Right from the horse's mouth...

229.5 and 229.51 also allow 10W-xx. 229.52 only allows 0W-xx and 5W-xx.

That's fine. 0/5/10W-40 is slightly little thicker than a 229.5(1/2) 5W-30. It'll help slightly with the oil consumption and give a little wider margin of wear protection. What I was saying was that his engine needs repair and he can't simply fix it by using a slightly thicker oil. Perhaps his oil consumption will drop from 8 qt per 1000 miles to 6 quarts per 1000 miles but it won't improve much more than that. This level of oil consumption is probably also resulting in heavy oil deposits at the valves and in the combustion chamber and ruining the catalytic converter.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I am guessing that 5W-30 you are using is ACEA A3/B4; so, it's not that much thinner than 10W-40.



Mercedes Benz begs to differ with your statement... They specifically state that although 229.5 approved oils encompass 0W30, 5W30, 0W40, and 5W40 grades, AMG engines are specifically required to use a minimum of xW40 grade oils with no exceptions.

Right from the horse's mouth...

Gokhan didn't say to run 5w-30. All he said was that a 5w-30 that meets ACEA A3/B4 is not much thinner than 10w-40, and I would agree with that. I don't see how what you posted from MB contradicts what he wrote.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Gokhan didn't say to run 5w-30. All he said was that a 5w-30 that meets ACEA A3/B4 is not much thinner than 10w-40, and I would agree with that. I don't see how what you posted from MB contradicts what he wrote.



The way I read Gokhan's post, it sounded like he was justifying that since the ACEA A3 xW30 grade is so close to the xW40 grade, that it shouldn't make much of a difference. But as I pointed out, MB has decided that the difference IS significant enough to exclude all xW30 grades (despite the A3 rating) from this particular engine family. So there must be a bigger difference than we realize.

Also, before we start pointing to all kinds of mechanical "problems" with this guy's car, we should realize that he's not cruising at 65 mph on a Sunday afternoon. He's driving seriously fast for extended periods of time, in which oil consumption is quite normal and acceptable as indicated by Doug Hillary. At the very least, he should give a more suitable oil a try just as Doug suggested.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Also, before we start pointing to all kinds of mechanical "problems" with this guy's car, we should realize that he's not cruising at 65 mph on a Sunday afternoon. He's driving seriously fast for extended periods of time, in which oil consumption is quite normal and acceptable

That's what I said right at the beginning.

Still, 0.5 liter per 100 km sounds a bit excessive.

 

[il_signore97]

^lol...

to that... And yes, it does sound like a lot of oil and would most certainly bother me if it were my car.


As a side bar, I've only driven on the Autobahn twice in my life, and both times were with rental cars (obviously) so I couldn't care less about oil consumption. But it's amazing the amount of work an engine must be doing for hours on end with the loud pedal literally planted to the floor, and all without any drama or immediate issue! I guess that is why the German manufacturers are especially careful with their design and selection of service components to ensure proper operation in this type of duty cycle.

 

[Gokhan]

I would think the oil consumption could increase with the RPM, as the engine is doing more cycles and sucking more oil. RPM also increases the oil pressure and oil flow, which could result in additional oil being sucked in. It's not to mention that it also increases the oil temperature, making the oil thinner, which also increases the oil sucked in.

All this said, I still believe that his valve-stem oil seals are junked and need to be replaced. The amount of oil consumption he is experiencing in regular driving is indicating that he is effectively driving without valve-stem oil seals, as they don't provide any sealing whatsoever anymore. Whatever oil that could be sucked in through the valve-guide clearances are being sucked in.

Going to 5W-40 from a 5W-30 that is almost as thick as 5W-40 will make some difference but not enough to curb the annoyingly excessive oil consumption. Forget 5W-40; with his valve seals, even with 15W-40 or 20W-50, the oil consumption will still be annoyingly excessive on the autobahn.

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

I totally agree with Gokhan. However, I am pretty obsessed about my cars.Many times, I was replacing parts which were just fine. That's why this time I want to try with the cheapest option before I will do anything else. Replacing valve seals is quite cheap procedure in Poland, there is one guy who is AMG Engines tuner and I spoke to him. He told me three scenarios, first one is changing the oil, second one is replcaing valve sealings (about $600) and then complete renovation with piston rings replacement etc (over $2000). That's why I am starting with the simpliest one. The car runs just great, I haven't noticed any other problem with engine. Catalytic converters have been replaced about 200kkm so I hope the new set despite that oil consumption will last at least for 80-100kkm.

Nowadays, having such cars seems to be pointless. I personally, don't have time to drive and enjoy them. The W220, W140 still are pretty solid and reliable cars, but I also own w221 S600 and it's a piece of junk. W221 is designed to bring you back to dealership to pay for constantly breaking electronical devices. I am thinking about selling some of my cars and buying new not fancy car with low consumption.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
W221 is designed to bring you back to dealership to pay for constantly breaking electronical devices.

The same can be said about all new MB vehicles, sadly.

 

[hattaresguy]

Sigh yeah the new high end cars are just lease specials.

Have you changed the super charger oil? I beleive on that motor its separate...

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
^lol...

to that... And yes, it does sound like a lot of oil and would most certainly bother me if it were my car.


As a side bar, I've only driven on the Autobahn twice in my life, and both times were with rental cars (obviously) so I couldn't care less about oil consumption. But it's amazing the amount of work an engine must be doing for hours on end with the loud pedal literally planted to the floor, and all without any drama or immediate issue! I guess that is why the German manufacturers are especially careful with their design and selection of service components to ensure proper operation in this type of duty cycle.


Hence why the typical Mercedes holds 8-9+ quarts of oil, and has large radiators for just about every fluid. Plus big cooling fans, under body air control to cool the rear end and brakes etc. Than you get into internal engine stuff like oil cooled pistons, 4 bolt mains, double row timing chains, etc.

They are designed to run at WOT until the tank runs dry.

The OP runs them fast but 120-130 is a very comfortable easy cruising speed in an S class.

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

That is amazing how easily these cars can do 200km,300km and more when you drive them hard. I remember doing 90km on autobahn in half an hour in w140 with 300td diesel engine or driving 240km/h for 100km in the old s-class w140 with m119 engine. I will always remember my first s class which was w116 with stunning red leather interior, tiny headlamps wippers, small 3,5 liter V8. When it was 35 years old the engine was running like brand new. This is the reason why I love them so much. Unfortunetely, these cars are not so practical nowadays. The are traffic jams, small parking spaces, emission regulations, irrational petrol prices.

I've never changed the oil in my supercharger. I think that dealership in Poland doesn't provide such procedure which is sad because.I heard that the old oil can decrease performance and be harmful for the mechanism.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy


Hence why the typical Mercedes holds 8-9+ quarts of oil, and has large radiators for just about every fluid. Plus big cooling fans, under body air control to cool the rear end and brakes etc. Than you get into internal engine stuff like oil cooled pistons, 4 bolt mains, double row timing chains, etc.

They are designed to run at WOT until the tank runs dry.

The OP runs them fast but 120-130 is a very comfortable easy cruising speed in an S class.



Oh, I know... I love the over-engineering of these vehicles, but they do need to be "driven" to keep them running in top shape. Driving to work and back just doesn't do them justice

And Quattro Pete, thankfully my experience has not been as such... We have 3 2009 models in the family (mine being the only manual transmission version), and for the most part have been relatively trouble-free, save for a few niggles here and there at the beginning. I hope it stays that way (...knocking on wood right now lol)

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
I totally agree with Gokhan. However, I am pretty obsessed about my cars.Many times, I was replacing parts which were just fine. That's why this time I want to try with the cheapest option before I will do anything else. Replacing valve seals is quite cheap procedure in Poland, there is one guy who is AMG Engines tuner and I spoke to him. He told me three scenarios, first one is changing the oil, second one is replcaing valve sealings (about $600) and then complete renovation with piston rings replacement etc (over $2000). That's why I am starting with the simpliest one. The car runs just great, I haven't noticed any other problem with engine. Catalytic converters have been replaced about 200kkm so I hope the new set despite that oil consumption will last at least for 80-100kkm.

Nowadays, having such cars seems to be pointless. I personally, don't have time to drive and enjoy them. The W220, W140 still are pretty solid and reliable cars, but I also own w221 S600 and it's a piece of junk. W221 is designed to bring you back to dealership to pay for constantly breaking electronical devices. I am thinking about selling some of my cars and buying new not fancy car with low consumption.



Please do come back and let us know how it works out when you get around to trying the above items. For now, enjoy the car and keep the oil full

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
And Quattro Pete, thankfully my experience has not been as such... We have 3 2009 models in the family (mine being the only manual transmission version), and for the most part have been relatively trouble-free, save for a few niggles here and there at the beginning. I hope it stays that way (...knocking on wood right now lol)

Consider yourself lucky. We are definitely ditching ours when the extended warranty is up, which will be very soon.

The car had the rear SAM (one of the computers) replaced, the whole COMMAND nav system replaced, nav wheel/knob replaced, folding side-view mirrors replaced, oil level sensor replaced, and sunroof had to be reprogrammed because it wasn't closing. And that's on top of some serious mechanical issues, one of them requiring a new transmission at only 60K miles. It is the first year model - maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Consider yourself lucky. We are definitely ditching ours when the extended warranty is up, which will be very soon.

The car had the rear SAM (one of the computers) replaced, the whole COMMAND nav system replaced, nav wheel/knob replaced, folding side-view mirrors replaced, oil level sensor replaced, and sunroof had to be reprogrammed because it wasn't closing. And that's on top of some serious mechanical issues, one of them requiring a new transmission at only 60K miles. It is the first year model - maybe that had something to do with it.



Wow, that's terrible. Sorry for your luck, and I really do hope that it's just because of the first model year syndrome. Mine has had it's blower motor replaced before the warranty expired and not because it didn't work, but because it made intermittent squeaking noises that drove me nuts. Other than that and a couple of rattles from the kick panels that the dealer took care of with felt, I've been good. I don't have the Command system, so no issue there. I also disable the auto folding mirrors for the winter because I think the melting and freezing affects their longevity. All of our MB's have been out of warranty for some time now, so hoping nothing too painful occurs in the near future

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

Hello everybody again

I switched oil in Mercedes Service Station to Mobil1 5w50. I was personally checking all the procedure. We put about 7 liters of oil (max level 7,5) so the oil level was in the middle of the dipstick. I chacked the old oil filter to see if there wasn't any metal particles. I noticed only that the oil filter was very black because of the old oil and I mean completely black. All I can say that I feel huge improvement in oil consumption and oil properties. Last oil looked like it was burned (extremely black, like tar). 5W50 is clean and after leaving the drop on the paper I can see that the color is solid without any strong contaminations. I think that it's because better ability of contaminations absortion of the new oil. Maybe I am biased by predicted result but I think also that 5w50 isn't so easy to overheat. For about 200-300km really hard driving the oil level is pretty same.

However, one problem is still present. I live in the are sorrunded by small mountains and when I am usually driving home i like to push the car to the maximum from the bottom of the steep road to the top and again down. When I was using 5w30 I quite often got massage: Add 1.0 liter of engine oil. Today, I got the same massage (after switching to 5w50) I changed the level manually in my garage and it was the same as at the beggining. The electronic measuring system displayed: Add 1.0 liter to reach maximal level. I think that the system informs to add oil after any notification of low level even if current level is ok. It's pretty anoying. I think that the oil sensor can be also broken.

Thanks again for the help. Mobil1 5W50 seems to be great choice. The engine is running little bit smoother. Maybe I can feel very very delicate drop in horse power when RPM are low but in the higher range the engine seems to work more stable.
I also noticed slight ticking sound from catalityc converters, maybe that's the process of throwing out the remainings of the old oil. I heard once something like that after driving really fast the new Porsche Cayenne Gemballa so I am hopping that it isn't anything bad. The oil consumption is 0 for now. Even after driving in traffic and extremely fast driving.