S55 AMG very high oil consumpiton hard driving

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Certainly replace the PCV valve, if this engine has one, and check the tubing for clogs.



This car likely has a pcv system with an oil separator like most German vehicles do including mine. No real serviceable parts. If something is not working, it needs diagnosis and replacement.

 

[CentAmDL650]

This engine and its car's useage are good candidates for ester based oils.

These come to mind:

Bel Ray EXS 10W50,
Fuchs Titan Race Pro or Silkolene Pro S,
Maxima Maxum4 Ultra 5W50.
Millers Nanodrive 10W50,
Motul 300V 15W50 Competition,
Redline 15W50

Also note, some of those are motorcycle specific oils, but will work perfectly fine in your application.

In many cases, abusive operating conditions can lead to varnish and carbon on the piston rings which leads to accelerated blowby into the crankcase. Ester oils do the best job at dissolving and preventing those things which make the rings stick, getting blowby under control and reducing oil consumption, even at extremely high temperatures and power loads. They also have superior resistance to oxidation & nitration, the best film strength, are nearly shear proof, and can handle fairly high fuel dilution without leaving any sludge or varnish.

Ester oils are the most popular with endurance racers at Le Mans, Daytona, Nurburgring, Spa Francorchamps, Sebring, etc. For a good reason, as the rules of most of those series have a volume limit for oil useage in any given race, after which no more can be added, and the engine consumes its remaining supply until it eventually retires or expires.

While many will claim the price for ester oils may be off-putting (here in the USA $12 - $20 / liter), the replacement cost of an AMG V-8 is likely frightening by comparison. Think of these oils as good insurance on an S55 investment.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
CentAmdL650 - to add to your comment:

"This engine and its car's useage are good candidates for ester based oils."

Maybe..........

Benz-AMG didn't necessarily think so and their recommendations confirm their findings!

Ester based lubricants can and do have issues too. I was "brought up" on Castrol's R series racing lubricants in the 1950s. And later worked with Castrol via their Formula R Synthetic 15W-50 the forerunner of the BMW's 10W-60, and later Formula SLX 0W-30 the forerunner of the GC mentioned here on BITOG - and HDEOs prior to BP

SLX was introduced here in 1996 and touted as a race lubricant. it was heavily promoted by and used in V8 Supercars. It was a seeded job and in the end a failure - but the great ester (Caster) based exhaust smell took me back to the 1950s!

As I have noted on here before GC was withdrawn from the OZ marketplace after a series of engine failures (one of mine included). Its main problem - oxidation and excessive varnish. Later it was reformulated and reintroduced without the prime ester component

So IMO always use ester based lubricants with caution and consideration - and according to the application!

I have been to the Nurburgring and Goodwood (and other locations) a number of times and I can assure you that ester based lubricant use does not dominate at either. BMW for and Porsche do work with their lubricant suppliers in testing and development at the 'Ring - but the last times I was there BMW/Castrol had no specific ester based lubricant in use (24hrs races) - and Porsche were using lubricants from their approved lubricant range

As a footnote the Porsche Museum in Zuffenhausen typically use mineral lubricant in many of their priceless old race cars - some are on 20W-50 too

Pre-war Benz and Auto-Union race cars used lubricant brew(s) based on fuel use. These were primarily synthetics including some with ester components

If there is a technical issue with the OPs car this needs to be addressed of course - but he has not mentioned any!

And for the record and IMO Poland is a truly lovely Country, great Culture, great people and history. I truly feel for it's tragic past few decades - until it was set free to fly again!!

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

Thank you all a lot! I must just only concern about one drawback of heavy oils. What about engine starts in winter. Is it true that it can cause higher engine shear in low temp?

I think that Poland is great, too However, 2 liter can of Motul 300v 15w50 cost $40:/

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

About SLX oil, I have also vintage Mercedes 500SEC w140. Great car, very rare paint 512 almandinrot and some rare additional equipment such as onboard computer, ADS suspension, grey leather etc. In 90's Mercedes Benz service point used SLX in this car. It still runs great but you can see dark brown oil leftovers even on camsaft elements and headcovers! It looks terrible.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
Let's face the truth, many people speaking about Poland as second world country can not even place it on a map.



That is most likely true and don't take those comments to heart. Remember USA is the "first world nation" that still has parts of New Orleans looking like a war zone after hurricane Katrina that happened in 2005!

As far as oil is concerned, listen to Doug, he knows German cars.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
Thank you all a lot! I must just only concern about one drawback of heavy oils. What about engine starts in winter. Is it true that it can cause higher engine shear in low temp?

I think that Poland is great, too However, 2 liter can of Motul 300v 15w50 cost $40:/


How cold does it get where you live? Do you drive your S55 all year? This is where the "W" number on the oil viscosity grade becomes important. SAE spec cold cranking tests are done at the following temperatures:
20W: -15C
15W: -20C
10W: -25C
5W: -30C
0W: -35C

You should be careful to pick an oil that has the lowest spread between the W grade and the high temperature grade that is appropriate for your environment. In general, oils that have a large spread (0W-50) will have more viscosity loss due to shearing than oils that have a large spread (20W-50). So pick the W-grade that is appropriate for the coldest temperature at which you expect to use the vehicle.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
In general, oils that have a large spread (0W-50) will have more viscosity loss due to shearing than oils that have a large spread (20W-50). So pick the W-grade that is appropriate for the coldest temperature at which you expect to use the vehicle.


Oops. Just saw a mistake.

This sentence should read:
In general, oils that have a large spread (0W-50) will have more viscosity loss due to shearing than oils that have a small spread (20W-50).

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

Motul 300v 15w50 seems to be ideal. I rarely drive when is below 0. However, in Poland sometimes in winter temperature reaches about -20 celsius. And what about ester-based oil smell? Does they really have sweet smell? I want to buy this oil online but I am quite afraid because it is easy buy fake oil in Poland.

 

[fdcg27]

You mention the smell.
Does this oil use castor bean basestock?
That does have a very distinctive and evocative scent.

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

I don't know really but I heard that all ester-based oils have sweet sell.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
fdcg27 - Yes, Castrol has been a castor base user (off and on) for many decades
The sweet smell is a treasure for some like me..................

Of course Mobil make a range of ester baser lubricant - Esterex is their Brand name

Not all ester lubricants "are the same" - IMO, only use as directed and in a suitable application as specified

 

[CentAmDL650]

Motul 300V has a smell like licorice and anise from the oil itself and is a neon green color like some antifreezes. I have not noticed any suggestion of smell at all from the exhaust, but the motorcycle I use it in is fairly new (now 15,500 miles) so it does not consume any oil during its OCI. I do not believe they use any castor oil at all in their blend, just diesters and polyol-ester base oils, and of course, additives.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Certainly replace the PCV valve, if this engine has one, and check the tubing for clogs.



This car likely has a pcv system with an oil separator like most German vehicles do including mine. No real serviceable parts. If something is not working, it needs diagnosis and replacement.

Would it be similar to the system used in turbo Volvo engines and Saab engines?

I know turbo engines have complex PCV systems, but do supercharged engines also have complex PCV systems?

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

Thank you, smell can be usefull clue. And what about keeping car parked in negative temperatures? I don't drive often in winter but what If the car stays long outside in winter. Last winter record is -27.

I don't know much about PCV in Mercedes but I promise I will educate myself.

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

I found Bel-ray EXS 10W50 in Poland. Price is really good ($45 for 4l approx. 1 gallon) and it seems to be better for winter than 15w50, it's also ester made and because Bel-ray is not popular in Poland it's easier to buy genuine one. However, it is advertised only as motorbike oil. What about Mercedes cars?

 

[CentAmDL650]

I read the US version of the MSDS for BelRay EXS 10W-50 4T, it appears to contain 80 - 90 percent ester products (polyol-esters?), and 10 - 20% combined of:

- hydrotreated heavy napthenic petroleum distillates,
- catalytic dewaxed light paraffinic oils,
- white petroleum mineral oil.

No CAS numbers for PAO components are reported. No CAS numbers for castor oil are listed.

I think this oil would pass the German synthetic labeling laws that require 70+% Gr.IV and or Gr.V content.

Under physical properties, they claim amber color, 865.00 kg/m^3 density, and boiling point of > 250°C, which reads as though it will have a very low NOACK number.

They also state the 4T oil is JASO-MA -MA1 & -MA2 compliant at the same time, and conforms to API SG/SH/SJ/SL/SM (for non-energy conserving motor oils). So the zinc and phosphorous will each be between 900 - 1300 ppm to meet SM. No description of SAPS level.

I would say all indications are it would be a good choice - but I know of no UOA which measures the molybdenum levels, as critics here like to criticise high moly levels for adding to ring varnish.

If you use it, remember to frequently assess the oil's condition in the first OCI, as with using any crankcase cleaning product if very large quantities of sludge/ varnish/ carbon/ or resin may be dissolved into the oil, the oil may reach its contamination limit and have a reduced effectiveness at lubricating and cooling the engine. Also, with a history like yours of excessive consumption, buy significant extra quantities to add as make-up oil, because esters (generally) clean gradually, and you will likely continue to have moderate to high consumption for as much as 2 OCIs. I would even go as far as to impose an upper speed limit of like 180 km/hr on the 1st OCI so no negative surprises happen.

On a different note, on my way to the auto parts store Saturday, I saw a gorgeous white W221 S600 sedan with diplomatic consul Florida plates. A truly stately-looking car, but just casually moving along with the rest of traffic.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
I found Bel-ray EXS 10W50 in Poland. Price is really good ($45 for 4l approx. 1 gallon) and it seems to be better for winter than 15w50, it's also ester made and because Bel-ray is not popular in Poland it's easier to buy genuine one. However, it is advertised only as motorbike oil. What about Mercedes cars?


Since you mentioned Mercedes oil specs that means you're somewhat familiar with their requirements. Now, why would you even mention a MOTORCYCLE oil for this car? Does it list any of the Mercedes specs? I highly doubt it. The base of the oil means nothing, if the rest of the formulation package is weak or meant for a different application.

You've been given plenty of information about the PROPER oil you should use, and you go off and look at the oddest oils. Hmm... something doesn't feel right with this whole scenario.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: MercedesAMG_Pola
Motul 300v 15w50 seems to be ideal. I rarely drive when is below 0. However, in Poland sometimes in winter temperature reaches about -20 celsius. And what about ester-based oil smell? Does they really have sweet smell? I want to buy this oil online but I am quite afraid because it is easy buy fake oil in Poland.


The Motul 300V 15w50 sounds like a good oil for your application. I have used Redline quite a lot, and have not noticed any kind of a sweet smell.

 

[MercedesAMG_Pola]

I just bought Mobil1 5w50. That's the safest solution. Little bit thicker than M1 0w40 and still meets MB 229.3/1. However, I am seduced by ester-based oils and I really would like to try one of them.