Rotate without balancing?
- Thread starter RDXman
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Depends on the miles and if the tires really need balancind or not .They usually can use a rebalance though.
Yes
Yes
I do it all the time w/o a balance job. A tire shop will tell you that the wear on the tires alters the balance. It probably does, (but I doubt it will matter), and that's usually to sell a balance job.
Frank D
Frank D
I just went throught this last week. If you only have 5k miles on tires probably not going to make a difference. But after 15k miles usually there is a change. I had one tire which had a major change and all the others were only a 1/4 ounce.
if you have lifetime balance, then y not do a balance when you rotate.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
if you have lifetime balance, then y not do a balance when you rotate.
1. If there isn't a problem it's a waste of time.
2. If there isn't a problem, odds are they will come out of the shop worse than they went in. At the least, lug nut torque and tire pressure will be wrong.
if you have lifetime balance, then y not do a balance when you rotate.
1. If there isn't a problem it's a waste of time.
2. If there isn't a problem, odds are they will come out of the shop worse than they went in. At the least, lug nut torque and tire pressure will be wrong.
There's no need to balance your tires at every rotation unless there's a problem.
i guess i should have said i take the car with lifetime balance, back to sears where the tech that was my apprentence still works. i taught him well and he will get the balance absolutely perfect. on the Volvo and when i had the mustang, we scrape the sticky weights off and clean the wheels completely to make sure the balance is perfect, then cover the weights with 200mph tape. when i had the mustang, i had Konig wheels with 275/40YR17 Michelin Pilot Sports, i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
No needed evry 5000 miles, neither is rotation. I rotate for seasons, saving the pair with most tread for up froont in winter. Rebalance maybe once in a tire's life is about right, if you want it perfect. No a big deal until you have a problem.
Quote:
i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
Is the very small weight (1 0z. ) needed to balance that tire any indication of tire quality ?
I've seen some no-name tires with multiple wheel weights needed to balance the tire.
i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
Is the very small weight (1 0z. ) needed to balance that tire any indication of tire quality ?
I've seen some no-name tires with multiple wheel weights needed to balance the tire.
We get our tires at Walmart/Sams Club, which has free balance & rotation for the life of the tires.
But I think its easier to rotate them myself than to take them in and wait on them to do it.
So in the 300k we've put on vehicles in the last 10 years, our tires have very rarely been balanced after the initial install. But I rotate them occasionally.
I have never had an uneven wear or vibration problem. If we did, I'd get them balanced. Until then, no.
But I think its easier to rotate them myself than to take them in and wait on them to do it.
So in the 300k we've put on vehicles in the last 10 years, our tires have very rarely been balanced after the initial install. But I rotate them occasionally.
I have never had an uneven wear or vibration problem. If we did, I'd get them balanced. Until then, no.
I'll do it myself.*
(* - outside temperature permitting)
(* - outside temperature permitting)
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Quote:
i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
Is the very small weight (1 0z. ) needed to balance that tire any indication of tire quality ?
I've seen some no-name tires with multiple wheel weights needed to balance the tire.
i think it was a combination of a high quality tire and wheel combo, that and it was mounted properly.
but in my time balancing tires, i can say that Michelin needed the least weight to properly balance then any other brand.
Quote:
i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
Is the very small weight (1 0z. ) needed to balance that tire any indication of tire quality ?
I've seen some no-name tires with multiple wheel weights needed to balance the tire.
i think it was a combination of a high quality tire and wheel combo, that and it was mounted properly.
but in my time balancing tires, i can say that Michelin needed the least weight to properly balance then any other brand.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Quote:
i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
Is the very small weight (1 0z. ) needed to balance that tire any indication of tire quality ?
I've seen some no-name tires with multiple wheel weights needed to balance the tire.
There are three elements to "Quality":
1) Design Quality: That is, how "robust" (I really hate that word!) is the design. In another thread there's a discussion about the number of plies in a tire - and that would be an example of "Design Quality".
2) Manufacturing Quality: That is, how good the manufacturing process is in preventing things that should not happen. This is what we usually think of as "defect prevention". So unless you analyze lots of tires - X ray, visual inspection, shearography, etc. - you won't be able to assess this.
3) Manufacturing Consistency: That is, how much different is one sample from another - and this is the area this question is addressing. Of course, balance is one of those properties that is easily measured and might be an indicator of consistency.
But there are a couple of things that affect the balance:
1) The balance of the rim itself. Many people don't think about the rim when they discuss tire balance, but it's always there. One of the interesting things is that a rim's imbalance could both make the tire and rim assembly require more weight to balance - or less weight - depending on the relative position of the imbalance of the 2 components. So if you see a lot of balance weights, you can't really be sure if you are seeing the rim or the tire or the combination (Although it is generally the tire requires more weight.)
2) Consistency: The only way to assess that is to measure a large number of sample and then construct statistical comparisons. Very tedious.
3) Sorting: Most tire manufacturers have machinery in their factories that measure various properties of tires. Balance, uniformity, and bulges are common things that are measured.
If you can measure it, you can sort it (that is remove items with high values) Reports from several former Michelin employees seem to point to a lot of scrap tires at Michelin's plants - this seems to point to sorting as one way Michelin maintains its "Quality".
From my perspective, this is all a matter of cost. If you can get someone to pay 30% more for your product, you can affort to throw away worst 10% of your production - and anyone could make their quality look good if they could throw away the worst ones. But if you can't afford it, then you can always sort at the dealership level - which has an unfortunate side effect.
Quote:
i never needed more than 1 oz per wheel of weight and the car never had any balance issues whatsoever.
Is the very small weight (1 0z. ) needed to balance that tire any indication of tire quality ?
I've seen some no-name tires with multiple wheel weights needed to balance the tire.
There are three elements to "Quality":
1) Design Quality: That is, how "robust" (I really hate that word!) is the design. In another thread there's a discussion about the number of plies in a tire - and that would be an example of "Design Quality".
2) Manufacturing Quality: That is, how good the manufacturing process is in preventing things that should not happen. This is what we usually think of as "defect prevention". So unless you analyze lots of tires - X ray, visual inspection, shearography, etc. - you won't be able to assess this.
3) Manufacturing Consistency: That is, how much different is one sample from another - and this is the area this question is addressing. Of course, balance is one of those properties that is easily measured and might be an indicator of consistency.
But there are a couple of things that affect the balance:
1) The balance of the rim itself. Many people don't think about the rim when they discuss tire balance, but it's always there. One of the interesting things is that a rim's imbalance could both make the tire and rim assembly require more weight to balance - or less weight - depending on the relative position of the imbalance of the 2 components. So if you see a lot of balance weights, you can't really be sure if you are seeing the rim or the tire or the combination (Although it is generally the tire requires more weight.)
2) Consistency: The only way to assess that is to measure a large number of sample and then construct statistical comparisons. Very tedious.
3) Sorting: Most tire manufacturers have machinery in their factories that measure various properties of tires. Balance, uniformity, and bulges are common things that are measured.
If you can measure it, you can sort it (that is remove items with high values) Reports from several former Michelin employees seem to point to a lot of scrap tires at Michelin's plants - this seems to point to sorting as one way Michelin maintains its "Quality".
From my perspective, this is all a matter of cost. If you can get someone to pay 30% more for your product, you can affort to throw away worst 10% of your production - and anyone could make their quality look good if they could throw away the worst ones. But if you can't afford it, then you can always sort at the dealership level - which has an unfortunate side effect.
Originally Posted By: ksJoe
We get our tires at Walmart/Sams Club, which has free balance & rotation for the life of the tires.
But I think its easier to rotate them myself than to take them in and wait on them to do it.
I buy our tires at Sam's Club (generally) also. I usually rotate myself (and obviously not re-balance), but for the first rotation for the van, I was lazy and took it in. They re-balanced the tires anyway, as a matter of practice. Some of the wheel weights moved slightly. Unfortunately, the old weights left small grooves in the wheel finish and you can see those now. No more free rotations...I'll do it myself and NOT have them re-balanced.
I've never had to re-balance tires after a rotation.
We get our tires at Walmart/Sams Club, which has free balance & rotation for the life of the tires.
But I think its easier to rotate them myself than to take them in and wait on them to do it.
I buy our tires at Sam's Club (generally) also. I usually rotate myself (and obviously not re-balance), but for the first rotation for the van, I was lazy and took it in. They re-balanced the tires anyway, as a matter of practice. Some of the wheel weights moved slightly. Unfortunately, the old weights left small grooves in the wheel finish and you can see those now. No more free rotations...I'll do it myself and NOT have them re-balanced.
I've never had to re-balance tires after a rotation.
With normal tire wear, I see no reason to rebalance. I've only rebalanced one pair of tires in my life. The tires were badly cupped due to the girlfriend driving while needing a wheel alignment. They didn't vibrate enough for her to notice, but I certainly did, and the balancing helped.
down here I've had the best tyre service from KMart Tyre and Auto, funny enough. reasonable price, good friendly service, and didn't mind me standing around int he shop having a look.
Worst was another chain, beaurepairs, who COULD NOT listen to what I was telling them. I said, to change the FRONT two tyres. Guy at teh counter goes and talk to the guys at the back, they bring the car in, and start breaking the valves of the rear tyres! I had to shout from across the lot to make the idiots stop... they replaced the valve stem of one rear tyre with a steel one, not rubber.
Worst was another chain, beaurepairs, who COULD NOT listen to what I was telling them. I said, to change the FRONT two tyres. Guy at teh counter goes and talk to the guys at the back, they bring the car in, and start breaking the valves of the rear tyres! I had to shout from across the lot to make the idiots stop... they replaced the valve stem of one rear tyre with a steel one, not rubber.
I rotate my own tires and have not had any problems, so I would say, no rebalanceing is needed. I would take in my tires for a rebalance if I sensed that there was undo vibration or noise...
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