Renewable energy isn't that expensive
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Originally Posted By: SHOZ
There are big problems NOW with ash and what they are trying to do with it in the US. millions of tons.
Yes, and by the EPA declaring it hazardous waste to satiate some "being seen to be doing something" mentality, they are stopping industry from utilising it...NOW
You either want it gone, or want it sitting in dams for a millenia...declaring it hazardous waste guarantees the latter, and the failures that go with it.
There are big problems NOW with ash and what they are trying to do with it in the US. millions of tons.
Yes, and by the EPA declaring it hazardous waste to satiate some "being seen to be doing something" mentality, they are stopping industry from utilising it...NOW
You either want it gone, or want it sitting in dams for a millenia...declaring it hazardous waste guarantees the latter, and the failures that go with it.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
There are big problems NOW with ash and what they are trying to do with it in the US. millions of tons.
Yes, and by the EPA declaring it hazardous waste to satiate some "being seen to be doing something" mentality, they are stopping industry from utilising it...NOW
You either want it gone, or want it sitting in dams for a millenia...declaring it hazardous waste guarantees the latter, and the failures that go with it.
Not quite. The power generators have just been doing the minimum on the East Coast of the US. They are shutting down the coal plants and leaving the ash slurry ponds in place uncovered.
The EPA encourages the reuse of ash when appropriate.
https://www.epa.gov/coalash/coal-ash-reuse
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
There are big problems NOW with ash and what they are trying to do with it in the US. millions of tons.
Yes, and by the EPA declaring it hazardous waste to satiate some "being seen to be doing something" mentality, they are stopping industry from utilising it...NOW
You either want it gone, or want it sitting in dams for a millenia...declaring it hazardous waste guarantees the latter, and the failures that go with it.
Not quite. The power generators have just been doing the minimum on the East Coast of the US. They are shutting down the coal plants and leaving the ash slurry ponds in place uncovered.
The EPA encourages the reuse of ash when appropriate.
https://www.epa.gov/coalash/coal-ash-reuse
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Ash is the big problem now. It has been ignored by generators on the east coast for decades and now they have to do something about it.
Have told you previously that the industry will make it all disappear in the next 20-30 years.
If the EPA stop meddling with the classification and what can legally be done with it.
It appears that they have finally made the decision and classified it as solid waste, which will promote the expansion of beneficial use. The final rule was put in place 04/17/2015.
https://www.epa.gov/coalash/coal-ash-rule
In 2010 a proposal for regulation was in place that would either classify the ash as Hazardous or Solid. No one in their right mind would start or expand a business based on recycling ash until that was settled.
EPA Desigation of Ash as Hazardous or Solid
The right decision was made and we can finally get on with the recycling on a large scale.
Ed
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Ash is the big problem now. It has been ignored by generators on the east coast for decades and now they have to do something about it.
Have told you previously that the industry will make it all disappear in the next 20-30 years.
If the EPA stop meddling with the classification and what can legally be done with it.
It appears that they have finally made the decision and classified it as solid waste, which will promote the expansion of beneficial use. The final rule was put in place 04/17/2015.
https://www.epa.gov/coalash/coal-ash-rule
In 2010 a proposal for regulation was in place that would either classify the ash as Hazardous or Solid. No one in their right mind would start or expand a business based on recycling ash until that was settled.
EPA Desigation of Ash as Hazardous or Solid
The right decision was made and we can finally get on with the recycling on a large scale.
Ed
Anyone who leases solar panels is a sucker who doesn't know how to perform simple math equations.
Have fun with the lien on your home!
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Coal has a lot more drawbacks that ruining the scenic mountains of West Virginia.
Pollution of the atmosphere and waste of toxic metals and ash.
As far as drawbacks go, every other technology also has them, otherwise one would have emerged as dominant in the 40 years they've been beating this drum.
But nothing has.
I don't need to hear what "solar" will be doing in 10 years, because I already heard it 10 years ago.
Same with "wind" - it's "just 10 years away," and it always will be.
They're not mining coal the way the Seven Dwarfs did 100 years ago, marching off with their picks and lanterns, and they're not using it the way they did 100 years ago, either. Clean coal technology has come a long way. It's right here, right now.
Coal has a lot more drawbacks that ruining the scenic mountains of West Virginia.
Pollution of the atmosphere and waste of toxic metals and ash.
As far as drawbacks go, every other technology also has them, otherwise one would have emerged as dominant in the 40 years they've been beating this drum.
But nothing has.
I don't need to hear what "solar" will be doing in 10 years, because I already heard it 10 years ago.
Same with "wind" - it's "just 10 years away," and it always will be.
They're not mining coal the way the Seven Dwarfs did 100 years ago, marching off with their picks and lanterns, and they're not using it the way they did 100 years ago, either. Clean coal technology has come a long way. It's right here, right now.
Solar has been the next big thing for the last 40 years.
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Have we figured out how to store that renewable energy for nighttime yet? Hmm, didn't think so...
Yes.
You can use molten sodium to store thermal energy and drive steam turbines @ times of low sun or night; i'm sure that is not what you want to hear.
http://www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy-storage
We know you don't want renewables to succeed, but technology marches on...
Sure, let it march on.
But not with one dime of my tax dollars.
You know, if that sort of "advancement" was spent on making fossil fuels more efficient...
That is what the idiot tax payers are for.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Have we figured out how to store that renewable energy for nighttime yet? Hmm, didn't think so...
Yes.
You can use molten sodium to store thermal energy and drive steam turbines @ times of low sun or night; i'm sure that is not what you want to hear.
http://www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy-storage
We know you don't want renewables to succeed, but technology marches on...
Sure, let it march on.
But not with one dime of my tax dollars.
You know, if that sort of "advancement" was spent on making fossil fuels more efficient...
That is what the idiot tax payers are for.
Originally Posted By: milkboy
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Coal has a lot more drawbacks that ruining the scenic mountains of West Virginia.
Pollution of the atmosphere and waste of toxic metals and ash.
As far as drawbacks go, every other technology also has them, otherwise one would have emerged as dominant in the 40 years they've been beating this drum.
But nothing has.
I don't need to hear what "solar" will be doing in 10 years, because I already heard it 10 years ago.
Same with "wind" - it's "just 10 years away," and it always will be.
They're not mining coal the way the Seven Dwarfs did 100 years ago, marching off with their picks and lanterns, and they're not using it the way they did 100 years ago, either. Clean coal technology has come a long way. It's right here, right now.
The most advanced coal generator is in Illinois. It came online in 2005. Just what has changed? They strip the mercury and acid waste but it still needs disposed. There they do have the plant built on top of the mine. But the strip mining out west and the mountain top mining in the Eastern US is how they do it now.
They use to shaft mine in this area 100 years ago. There were the piles of pretty colored trailings that had been left behind. I see they now have finally cleaned this up. On the East coast they are closing the power stations and their planis was to leave the ash in pits, uncovered and unlined.
duke power coal ash fines and issues
mountaintop mining
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Coal has a lot more drawbacks that ruining the scenic mountains of West Virginia.
Pollution of the atmosphere and waste of toxic metals and ash.
As far as drawbacks go, every other technology also has them, otherwise one would have emerged as dominant in the 40 years they've been beating this drum.
But nothing has.
I don't need to hear what "solar" will be doing in 10 years, because I already heard it 10 years ago.
Same with "wind" - it's "just 10 years away," and it always will be.
They're not mining coal the way the Seven Dwarfs did 100 years ago, marching off with their picks and lanterns, and they're not using it the way they did 100 years ago, either. Clean coal technology has come a long way. It's right here, right now.
The most advanced coal generator is in Illinois. It came online in 2005. Just what has changed? They strip the mercury and acid waste but it still needs disposed. There they do have the plant built on top of the mine. But the strip mining out west and the mountain top mining in the Eastern US is how they do it now.
They use to shaft mine in this area 100 years ago. There were the piles of pretty colored trailings that had been left behind. I see they now have finally cleaned this up. On the East coast they are closing the power stations and their plan
duke power coal ash fines and issues
mountaintop mining
I've been saying this for a while, Money talks and the other stuff walks!
When coal and oil become prohibitively expensive due to running out of the stuff, renewable and other forms of energy will take off. Until then, not so much. Yes, slowing down (you can't stop it) global warming and keeping the atmosphere clean are laudable goals, and do grab the attention of quite a few (many of them influential) folks. But it will take an economic reason to make the move for the masses, many of whom in the world today are dirt poor making do with little today.
When coal and oil become prohibitively expensive due to running out of the stuff, renewable and other forms of energy will take off. Until then, not so much. Yes, slowing down (you can't stop it) global warming and keeping the atmosphere clean are laudable goals, and do grab the attention of quite a few (many of them influential) folks. But it will take an economic reason to make the move for the masses, many of whom in the world today are dirt poor making do with little today.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Ash is the big problem now. It has been ignored by generators on the east coast for decades and now they have to do something about it.
Have told you previously that the industry will make it all disappear in the next 20-30 years.
If the EPA stop meddling with the classification and what can legally be done with it.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Ash is the big problem now. It has been ignored by generators on the east coast for decades and now they have to do something about it.
Have told you previously that the industry will make it all disappear in the next 20-30 years.
If the EPA stop meddling with the classification and what can legally be done with it.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
I've been saying this for a while, Money talks and the other stuff walks!
When coal and oil become prohibitively expensive due to running out of the stuff, renewable and other forms of energy will take off. Until then, not so much. Yes, slowing down (you can't stop it) global warming and keeping the atmosphere clean are laudable goals, and do grab the attention of quite a few (many of them influential) folks. But it will take an economic reason to make the move for the masses, many of whom in the world today are dirt poor making do with little today.
The US is awash in natural gas.
I've been saying this for a while, Money talks and the other stuff walks!
When coal and oil become prohibitively expensive due to running out of the stuff, renewable and other forms of energy will take off. Until then, not so much. Yes, slowing down (you can't stop it) global warming and keeping the atmosphere clean are laudable goals, and do grab the attention of quite a few (many of them influential) folks. But it will take an economic reason to make the move for the masses, many of whom in the world today are dirt poor making do with little today.
The US is awash in natural gas.
Renewable energy is cheaper than peak demand price gouging in a heat storm by the power plants (I've seen PG&E Smart rate at about 60c / kWh during heat storm, 15 days per year, from 2pm-7pm). Solar doesn't cost 60c / kWh during a sunny day heat storm, that we can all agree upon.
Renewable is not as cheap as power plants paying you to take their energy at night so they don't have to shut the plant down, that we can also agree upon.
So, why do we want to not build SOME solar energy to match the amount of air conditioning need during the summer heat storm, and use the existing power plant for the rest of our need? Having the extreme of too much or no solar at all just don't make sense to me at all.
Renewable is not as cheap as power plants paying you to take their energy at night so they don't have to shut the plant down, that we can also agree upon.
So, why do we want to not build SOME solar energy to match the amount of air conditioning need during the summer heat storm, and use the existing power plant for the rest of our need? Having the extreme of too much or no solar at all just don't make sense to me at all.
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Solar has been the next big thing for the last 40 years.
Until the Chinese paid for the manufacturing facilities and start selling them for near / below cost. They are now super cheap because they have a fixed cost to pay (facility, mortgage, loan) regardless of how many panels they sell.
Solar has been the next big thing for the last 40 years.
Until the Chinese paid for the manufacturing facilities and start selling them for near / below cost. They are now super cheap because they have a fixed cost to pay (facility, mortgage, loan) regardless of how many panels they sell.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Have fun with the lien on your home!
Are you intoxicated?
No he is not, if you got into a solar lease or purchase agreement at a bad price, you cannot get out of it until you buy out your panel. If the new buyer are not willing to resume your agreement, you have to buy it out with your own money before you can remove the lien to sell the house.
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Have fun with the lien on your home!
Are you intoxicated?
No he is not, if you got into a solar lease or purchase agreement at a bad price, you cannot get out of it until you buy out your panel. If the new buyer are not willing to resume your agreement, you have to buy it out with your own money before you can remove the lien to sell the house.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
I've been saying this for a while, Money talks and the other stuff walks!
When coal and oil become prohibitively expensive due to running out of the stuff, renewable and other forms of energy will take off. Until then, not so much. Yes, slowing down (you can't stop it) global warming and keeping the atmosphere clean are laudable goals, and do grab the attention of quite a few (many of them influential) folks. But it will take an economic reason to make the move for the masses, many of whom in the world today are dirt poor making do with little today.
The US is awash in natural gas.
Yes, we are awash. That is one of the reasons why it will be many years or decades before renewable really gets rolling.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
I've been saying this for a while, Money talks and the other stuff walks!
When coal and oil become prohibitively expensive due to running out of the stuff, renewable and other forms of energy will take off. Until then, not so much. Yes, slowing down (you can't stop it) global warming and keeping the atmosphere clean are laudable goals, and do grab the attention of quite a few (many of them influential) folks. But it will take an economic reason to make the move for the masses, many of whom in the world today are dirt poor making do with little today.
The US is awash in natural gas.
Yes, we are awash. That is one of the reasons why it will be many years or decades before renewable really gets rolling.
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