Refinishing a rifle stock

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Boomer
Do you hunt a lot in rainy weather? Do you wipe your stock down after a day of hunting in the rain?

I think tung oil is OK for a showpiece/take it to the range gun. But for a serious hunter who is exposed to all kinds of weather, a matte finish waterproog outdoor urethane is really a must if you want to protect the wood stock.


The stock is off an old marlin and going on another one that is custom. So it is a straight bolt on. But I will use it in all types of weather so durability is #1 so I think I'll take your advice on the urethane finish coat maybe in a semi gloss and do 3-4 coats with 0000 steel wool in between each coat.

A friend of mine recommended 2-4 coats of marine grade urethane to stand up to weather and some abuse.


I would just make sure that you can find a marine varnish that is not poly. If you ding or chip the finish, poly is very hard to repair. Most of the time you will have witness lines. I would recommend Epifanes and I would put on gloss. You can then use paste wax and 0000 steel wool to adjust the gloss. You can always de or repolish to a glosss as long as you start with gloss. You cannot polish up semi or satin.

 

[BigD1]

If it is going to get wet, Minwax Tung oil finish is an excellent choice. It's an oil and varnish blend, and the finish can be touched up. It would be more resistant to water penetration and chemicals than boiled linseed or boiled tung oil.

 

[BigD1]

Found this interesting. Gun stock oil finish comparison.

 

[punisher]

So much is personal preference.

I have used the Homer Formby "tung oil" and was not impressed. I did one shotgun with it, as well as a small table, and it just always had a slight tacky feel to it. No idea what I was doing wrong.

The most foolproof method so far, an oil based wipe off stain and either gloss or satin polyurethane as a clearcoat. Now, you don't get Weatherby MKV gloss with it, but it looks good and works for rifles/shotguns exposed to the elements. Just a light coat of polyurethane on the internal surfaces of the stock seal it against the elements.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: punisher
So much is personal preference.

I have used the Homer Formby "tung oil" and was not impressed. I did one shotgun with it, as well as a small table, and it just always had a slight tacky feel to it. No idea what I was doing wrong.

The most foolproof method so far, an oil based wipe off stain and either gloss or satin polyurethane as a clearcoat. Now, you don't get Weatherby MKV gloss with it, but it looks good and works for rifles/shotguns exposed to the elements. Just a light coat of polyurethane on the internal surfaces of the stock seal it against the elements.


The forbys does always have a bit of a tack feel to it, but it does cure proper. On a gun I always saw that as a benefit as the gun stays secure in your grip. However, if it bothers you, a light coat of furniture wax makes it more slippery.

Poly is great for certain applications, but just have to repair it once and you will see why I hate it for gun stocks. It does not bond well to itself, which is why it needs to be abraded before every successive coat. The one thing I do like Poly for is flooring.

For a fair weather gun that needs to be shiny, I am actually a fan of using one coat of BLO thinned down 50 percent with mineral spirits to pop the grain and then topped (after given a week to cure the BLO) with good old school lacquer. Nothing shines up to an eye blinding gloss as good as lacquer. You can also use a washcoat of dewaxed shellac to really pop grain. I am just leery of using it because it does not handle the heat of a barrel as well. However, the Russians did use it for many many years on their rifles well. That Russian red finish you see on Mosin Nagants is often a shellac.

 

[doitmyself]

Robenstein,

Reading "between the lines" of your posts, it's clear that you know wood finishes.

Many people are confused by the marketing of products like Minwax Tung Oil/Antique Oil, which are really wiping varnishes rather than "oil" finishes (see the bottom of BigD1's link).

The writings of Bob Flexner clear up this confusion and are an excellent read.

Like you, I would avoid a built up polyurethane finish. Self made wiping varnishes have become my current favorite. They seem to be in between an oil finish and a built up finish.

Thanks for contributing your expertise on this subject area.

 

[userfriendly]

Side story.... I bought a NIB CZ .17 HMR one day the minute I saw it. Look at what just jumped out of the woodwork, that stock doesn't belong on that rifle at that price. I took it home and spent the next week working on the stock. Now it's just another closet queen, too nice to take outside.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

A good oil finish like GB Lin-Speed is far superior to any poly finish, especially in appearance. It is very easy to do blend “repairs” on scratches, and when properly applied an oil finish is much more durable than the metal bluing. Water will bead on a good oil finish.

It's obviously possible to achieve a fairly nice finish with poly. Poly is used in production because it is quick to apply (making it cheaper). But it scratches and pops off with the slightest ding, and it's nearly impossible to repair it acceptably without an entire re-finish. The same type of damage is easy to repair on an oil finish, and there is nothing to “pop off”.

Once you sand down to bare wood, smear some mineral spirits on the wood to get an approximation on the finished appearance. At that point you can better judge if you might want to try a stain to alter the shade.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Robenstein,

Reading "between the lines" of your posts, it's clear that you know wood finishes.

Many people are confused by the marketing of products like Minwax Tung Oil/Antique Oil, which are really wiping varnishes rather than "oil" finishes (see the bottom of BigD1's link).

The writings of Bob Flexner clear up this confusion and are an excellent read.

Like you, I would avoid a built up polyurethane finish. Self made wiping varnishes have become my current favorite. They seem to be in between an oil finish and a built up finish.

Thanks for contributing your expertise on this subject area.



I am familiar with Flexner's work. I could have saved myself a lot of cussing, sweat, tears, and dollars if I had stumbled on him earlier instead of learning by trial and error.

 

[BrianF]

I have done 3 stocks so far: My Remington 550-1, Enfield No5Mk1 and my Longbranch No4.

I soaked them in very hot water in the tub, a bit of Vim floor soap and then a plastic Brillo pad to scrub out the [censored]. Once all done and dry I used very fine grit sand paper to take the sharp edges out.

Then moved onto approx 15 coats of double boiled linseed oil with mineral spirits to cut it. Progressively worked to [censored] near just the oil. Having approx. 24 hours to dry in between coats.

I use a bit of that lemon smelling wood furniture oil, what ever its called... a few times a year.

When the dirt fades the color I will do this all again.

Love the finish!!

 

[Robenstein]

That lemon smelling furniture oil is just scented mineral oil. The problem is that mineral oil never, ever cures. Indeed it can make the wood softer over time and lead to cracks. You see this all the time with old double guns that had mineral oil based gun lubes soak into the stocks. The recoil eventually leads the softened wood to crack.


Soaking in hot water can also lead to warping of the wood. Looks like you have lucked out with that. But in the future, just put more linseed oil on the gun instead of lemon oil. If you need to clean the wood, then wipe it with more mineral spirits.

 

[Cujet]

I restored the laminated stock on my Russian M44. I purchased the gun for $69, still packed in cosmoline grease. I used solvent and a heat gun to remove the oils from the stock. I then washed it in very hot water with citrus degreaser. Sanded and used the heat gun again.

I then simply used "Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil" gun stock oil and steel wool.

After many hours, I believe I have the nicest looking Russian M44 in existence! It actually looks quite good in person, much better than the pics show. Too bad it's so inaccurate.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I restored the laminated stock on my Russian M44. I purchased the gun for $69, still packed in cosmoline grease. I used solvent and a heat gun to remove the oils from the stock. I then washed it in very hot water with citrus degreaser. Sanded and used the heat gun again.

I then simply used "Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil" gun stock oil and steel wool.

After many hours, I believe I have the nicest looking Russian M44 in existence! It actually looks quite good in person, much better than the pics show. Too bad it's so inaccurate.

I want an m44. I have been told that they are more accurate with the bayonet folded out into position.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I want an m44. I have been told that they are more accurate with the bayonet folded out into position.


In the case of this rifle, it does not matter much where the bayonet is positioned. The gun will be on the paper at 50 yards once. After that, who knows where the bullets go. It's truly horrible.

(My 91-30 is much more accurate. I put an aftermarket stock on the 91-30 and that helped a good bit.)

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I want an m44. I have been told that they are more accurate with the bayonet folded out into position.


In the case of this rifle, it does not matter much where the bayonet is positioned. The gun will be on the paper at 50 yards once. After that, who knows where the bullets go. It's truly horrible.

(My 91-30 is much more accurate. I put an aftermarket stock on the 91-30 and that helped a good bit.)


Gotcha, if the bore is decent the only thing i could suggest is bedding in the stock.

 

[Clevy]

Y
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I restored the laminated stock on my Russian M44. I purchased the gun for $69, still packed in cosmoline grease. I used solvent and a heat gun to remove the oils from the stock. I then washed it in very hot water with citrus degreaser. Sanded and used the heat gun again.

I then simply used "Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil" gun stock oil and steel wool.

After many hours, I believe I have the nicest looking Russian M44 in existence! It actually looks quite good in person, much better than the pics show. Too bad it's so inaccurate.

Have you tried the folded piece of paper trick. It acts like a fret on a guitar adjusting bore harmonics.
Believe it or not mos2 can help bring back an old bore too.
Fold up a piece of paper so it's thick enough to separate the stock from the barrel. Take a few shots. Move the paper back or forward based on group size.
I've seen old mosins with so little rifling left it barely spun the bullet but could manage 4" groups with open sights at 100 yards standing.
I need sandbags and a scope to get any kind of group but I've learned that I have a natural talent for this shooting stuff.
Try the "fret" paper trick.
Reloading will help too. Tuning the load for the rifle will help tighten groups too.
Cheap imported ammo is fun for blasting but not very accurate in my experience. On a cold barrel with a single fouling shot and Chinese spam can ammo I can't get any tighter then 2" groups with my sks. That's off a bipod and sandbag shoulder rest.
However single shot target plinking up to 100 yards I can't miss. The chrome barrel need that minute to cool between shots and it's decent but repeat fire sends fliers.

Glass and bolt bedding can't hurt either. I understand it's not an expensive gun and you may not want to spend money on it however I've learned how much fun a days shooting can be and that's worth any price.
Unless you are hoping for collectors value.
My k-31 is a fine example of a gun I do t want to do anything to.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: BrianF
I have done 3 stocks so far: My Remington 550-1, Enfield No5Mk1 and my Longbranch No4.

I soaked them in very hot water in the tub, a bit of Vim floor soap and then a plastic Brillo pad to scrub out the [censored]. Once all done and dry I used very fine grit sand paper to take the sharp edges out.

Then moved onto approx 15 coats of double boiled linseed oil with mineral spirits to cut it. Progressively worked to [censored] near just the oil. Having approx. 24 hours to dry in between coats.

I use a bit of that lemon smelling wood furniture oil, what ever its called... a few times a year.

When the dirt fades the color I will do this all again.

Love the finish!!


You soaked a wood stock in hot water?

I hope you free floated the barrel because if not that stock is going to twist and create pressure points on the barrel which is going to distort barrel harmonics which translates to no accuracy whatsoever.
Ever seen hardwood floors after a flooding mishap. I'm a journeyman carpenter and have seen more than I care to remember.
Water causes the wood fibres to swell and because not all fibres swell at the same rate this causes it to warp. Hardwood floors expand and swell so much they buckle and lift and the weakest point which tends to be at the wall.
Stock manufacturers kiln dry their lumber to get all the moisture out so so warpage occurs over time.
You've effectively raised the moisture content of the stock and simply put its ruined. Never,ever soak a stock in a hot bathtub. I cannot believe you really did that.
No way that gun shoots even remotely straight anymore. No possible way.
Maybe it shot horrible before so you just didn't notice.
Then you refinished the wood trapping all that moisture inside the wood. So if you take it out in the winter and it freezes my bet is the stock actually cracks with the water freezing and pulling on the fibrous wood veins.

To all bitogers never,ever do this to a stock. Not one you want to keep anyway.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I restored the laminated stock on my Russian M44. I purchased the gun for $69, still packed in cosmoline grease. I used solvent and a heat gun to remove the oils from the stock. I then washed it in very hot water with citrus degreaser. Sanded and used the heat gun again.

I then simply used "Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil" gun stock oil and steel wool.

After many hours, I believe I have the nicest looking Russian M44 in existence! It actually looks quite good in person, much better than the pics show. Too bad it's so inaccurate.

Tru Oil works well, but it is expensive and does not store well. Essentially it is a polymerized linseed oil. It does really bring out the grain in some woods though, especially figured walnut and maple. I have seen a few guitar builders that use it to bring out the grain in a spalted maple top on their les paul clones.

 

[userfriendly]

Browning offers hunting rifles and limited edition shotguns with maple stocks. If I was to buy one, it would be to play with the wood color and investigate the possibilities of what can be done with maple. Do they take to clear neutral oil, red or yellow?
I haven't cracked or warped a stock yet, but on old wood I'll drill a couple of small relief holes behind the butt plate before removing the old oil from the stock with hot water. Before applying oil or finish I'll dry the wood for a day on a electric base board heater. If I get the color wrong, off it comes with hot water and back onto the heater.

 

[Robenstein]

The only tinted oils I know of off hand are the Watco Danish Oils. Otherwise all oils will impart an amber hue, with tung oil being a bit lighter than Linseed based oils. If you want a truly neutral color you would have to use clear lacquer, one of the new water based acrylics, or an ultra blonde shellac (pops the grain and imparts only a small tint of amber).

Laurel Mountain Forge makes some great gunstock stains that work awesome with maple. Just let them cure well before using an oil finish on them.

Instead of messing with hot water and repeated drying, I would just use a strong solvent. Water can not only warp wood, but it raises the grain, which leads to more sanding.