Recent mid-size sedan comparos

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I never thought I liked Hondas until I actually owned one.

Funny you should say that. When I look at my personal experience, I can say that I never thought I would dislike Hondas until I actually owned one.

Chalk it up to one bad experience plus some poor decision process on my part. Maybe one of these days I'll give Honda another try.

 

[SteveSRT8]

The only funny thing about the Accord is the low trim level is the real winner here. The tarted up v6 models do not impress the testers as much as the base 2.4 4 banger.

Honda got kudos from C&D on their CVT tuning, too, for those who don't want the manual. Honda has always had a 'fun' dynamic quality to their cars, gets the ergonomics right for most drivers, and has pretty good resale.

I really think their supposed failure rate is GREATLY exaggerated by the internet.

 

[Spazdog]

Once again the Mazda6, Subaru Legacy, and Suzuki Kizashi are excluded.

The Subaru? Okay, it's AWD. That might be seen as an exception to the class.

The Mazda? It's going to get the driver's choice award....or Mazdas usually do anyway. But this particular model of the Mazda6 is quite nearly EPA full-size and is a lot softer than it's predecessor. Plus it's the last year of this particular generation. I can kinda' see them excepting it.

The Kizashi? No excuse. The car rags consistantly tell us how the Kizashi is the "best car that no one is buying" and then they exclude it. Could it be that Volkswagen (who owns a part of Suzuki Auto) is blocking them from comparing it to the Passat? Hyundai apparently had no problems allowing a comparison between the Sonata and Optima.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The only funny thing about the Accord is the low trim level is the real winner here. The tarted up v6 models do not impress the testers as much as the base 2.4 4 banger.

Honda got kudos from C&D on their CVT tuning, too, for those who don't want the manual. Honda has always had a 'fun' dynamic quality to their cars, gets the ergonomics right for most drivers, and has pretty good resale.

I really think their supposed failure rate is GREATLY exaggerated by the internet.


I don't doubt the internet effect at all...I belong to a Volvo XC forum, in which posters rant about how lousy Volvos are, based solely on the experience they've had with a poor, abused, 2nd or 3rd, or even 4th, hand car with maintenance that has not been performed, or has been abused. Some rant on about how Volvo should be sued, punished, etc. (for a car that has had no fluid changes and has a trans go out at 120,000 miles) ....yet, they've been reliable for me...

I wonder if my experience is like Jeff in his post above about Honda? i.e. maintain any given car well and it rewards you with good reliability...

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

The Kizashi? No excuse. The car rags consistantly tell us how the Kizashi is the "best car that no one is buying" and then they exclude it. Could it be that Volkswagen (who owns a part of Suzuki Auto) is blocking them from comparing it to the Passat? Hyundai apparently had no problems allowing a comparison between the Sonata and Optima.


I do wonder if VW is trying to hold Suzuki back in the US.

If they are, I wonder how this ad slipped through...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Once again the Mazda6, Subaru Legacy, and Suzuki Kizashi are excluded.


I bet the article tested "new" 2013 models. They often don't test carry-over models, especially if they haven't scored well in prior testing. I don't know if that's the case with the three models listed above, but that's usually their explanation when asked.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
... The interior quality blows every domestic and most imports of it's era away, and the combination of powertrain and chassis performance is unrivaled. Compare to the boring old Camry, good driving but [censored] interior Altima, mediocre Fusion & Malibu, downright awful Chrysler products, etc. I've driven a lot of cars over the years and always find it refreshing to get back into the Accord. In some ways it drives nicer than our Saab 9-5 Aero.

jeff


I respectfully disagree.

I have never driven an Accord and thought, "I should have bought one of these instead of the Mazda."
My interior matches up to an Accord LX. The big difference there is that for the same price as a 4cyl Accord LX, I got a V6 Mazda6S.
Chassis dynamics? No. Not to the same standard. The Mazda is better sorted.
Noise? Yeah. The Accord is quieter. So is the Chrysler Sebring sedan. That's not saying much.
Cargo capacity? Not even close. Not since the Accord wagon was discontinued. But then again the Mazda 5-door was discontinued so we'll call it a draw
AND, I do not have to deal with that gawdawful gear selector. Several years of the Accord have this cheap plasticky imprecise gear selector. I hate it. It feels like a video game controller. Not a good one either. I guess I've been spoiled by my Chrysler...wait. My Chrysler is a cheap car. A cheap car with a better gear selector!
Reliabilty? There have been a few tiny hiccups in the Mazda (all failed parts clearly labled FoMoCo...coincidence?

)

I wouldn't go as far as to say it is unrivaled. Sure, if you compare it to the Chrysler Sebring or '04-'07 Malibu it's fair to say it's unrivaled...(the Malibu from that era actually doesn't drive that badly but the ugly exterior and tupperware interior make me question GM management's sanity)

 

[fdcg27]

Are we talking about the same Car&Driver?
The November 2012 issue lists the following cars in the following order of preference:

1. Accord
2. Fusion
3. Altima
4. Passat

This comparo involved the new for '13 Accord, while I'm guessing that the comparison tests you referenced involved the outgoing five year old generation.
There is a nice rolling cover shot of these cars, with the Fusion leading the way, its appearance marred by a bad hood fit.
There used to be a quip that the magazine should really be named "Hondacar&Driver".

 

[kkreit01]

Accord has always been a good car (since the middle 90s at least). However, styling has always been bland, vanilla, blah...It's never been a car to turn around, and give a second look at.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: kkreit01
It's never been a car to turn around, and give a second look at.

You didn't have to. Any way you turn, you'll probably see another one.

 

[PandaBear]

In general I found these ranking meaningless unless they are broken down to the reason and distribution of the scores.

A person who love Passat because of the driving dynamic and interior may rank it #1 but his friend that wants nothing to do with the history of VW transmission failure may rank it the bottom, but rank an Accord / Camry #1 due to reliability or the reputation of reliability.

 

[jigen]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Are we talking about the same Car&Driver?
The November 2012 issue lists the following cars in the following order of preference:

1. Accord
2. Fusion
3. Altima
4. Passat

This comparo involved the new for '13 Accord, while I'm guessing that the comparison tests you referenced involved the outgoing five year old generation.
There is a nice rolling cover shot of these cars, with the Fusion leading the way, its appearance marred by a bad hood fit.
There used to be a quip that the magazine should really be named "Hondacar&Driver".


Yup. That's the current issue. The Passat did a complete 180 since last year. These new cars seem to really step it up this year. Accord, Altima, Fusion... All of them seem to be great.

 

[kkreit01]

IMO, the Altima has some very impressive numbers. A car that size -- that weighs only 3100+ lbs! All others needs to go on the same diet. Also, a N/A 4-banger (automatic/CVT) that can go 0-60 in 7.4 secs (also pretty impressive).

 

[BearZDefect]

I haven't seen the latest Altima in person, but I did check out and test drive the outgoing generation. I found the interior strangely cramped - insufficient rear sear headroom, front dash consumed too much cabin space. And under the hood it looked like a bad choice for long term ownership - difficult access to parts that need to be replaced soon after 100k miles. And this was the 4 cylinder engine. I was not impressed. The only characteristic I liked was the CVT holding engine RPM where is should be for the desired output - no comparison to my 4 speed automatic.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
In general I found these ranking meaningless unless they are broken down to the reason and distribution of the scores.

Have you ever read Car and Driver? They do a great job of that.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Accord has always been a good car (since the middle 90s at least). However, styling has always been bland, vanilla, blah...It's never been a car to turn around, and give a second look at.

I think the best one was 1986 Accord LXi 4-dr, it was way better than any competitor. IIRC MSRP was about $13k but most dealers in Mid-West demanded and got $3-4k above it.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Accord has always been a good car (since the middle 90s at least). However, styling has always been bland, vanilla, blah...It's never been a car to turn around, and give a second look at.

I think the best one was 1986 Accord LXi 4-dr, it was way better than any competitor. IIRC MSRP was about $13k but most dealers in Mid-West demanded and got $3-4k above it.


I remember the substantial dealer mark-up but it seems like they stickered around $10-11,000. I do not understand how it was "way better" than the competition. It was good but I don't see it being "way better". The 1986 Camry was an ugly car. Very ugly, but it was as reliable as any Camry that followed it. The Stanza was better looking and decent. Like a mini-Maxima. Speaking of Maxima, for that kind of money in 1986 you could actually get a Maxima The 1986 Mazda 626 was arguably the best of the 4 cylinder lot. Good looking with a durable F-series motor and a JATCO transmission (and without needless dealer mark-up)

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I really think their supposed failure rate is GREATLY exaggerated by the internet.


Considering JD Powers and Consumers Reports put Honda quality pretty much on the same par with Ford (and to a lesser extent GM), I'd say their quality is mediocre. Only Toyota is a bit better than all the rest.

Driven a few Hondas and they were always "meh" cars. Drove my Dad's Civic and it was nothing special. Slow, noisy, and had a 1st gear whine (it's an 08) that reminded me of the hum in a RWD Crown Vic. It did have nice steering though. But other than that, it was nothing special at all. About on par with the previous gen Focus (before they got ugly in 07 or so).

 

[SteveSRT8]

Thank God they make more than one kind of car!

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: kkreit01
IMO, the Altima has some very impressive numbers. A car that size -- that weighs only 3100+ lbs! All others needs to go on the same diet. Also, a N/A 4-banger (automatic/CVT) that can go 0-60 in 7.4 secs (also pretty impressive).


Nissan uses a great deal of aluminum including the hood, trunklid and AFAIK, the rear subframe as in my '04 Altima 2.5S(2995 lbs).

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
Accord has always been a good car (since the middle 90s at least). However, styling has always been bland, vanilla, blah...It's never been a car to turn around, and give a second look at.

I think the best one was 1986 Accord LXi 4-dr, it was way better than any competitor. IIRC MSRP was about $13k but most dealers in Mid-West demanded and got $3-4k above it.


Yes, I had an '88 Accord LX w/2bbl carb(not LX-i EFI). And it was a better car that our family's vehciles...Check this out, we all bought a new car this year and the Accord was the best. Not just because I owned it, they all even agreed after driving the Honda.

Our '88 Honda Accord 2.0L 4cyl w/Carb (What a car!)
SIL '88 Toyota Camry LE V6 (Boaring)
SIL '88 Nissan Stanza 4 cyl (Liked it better than the Camry)
BIL '88 Pontiac GrandAm V6 (Clostrophobic/uncomfortable)
FIL '88 Chevrolet Celebrity EuroSport V6 (Not Bad!)
SIS '88 Mercury Sable 3.8 V6 (Very NICE!)
BIL '88 Corvette (Well, a different breed)No comparo!

I have to say though that, I did like the Sable(Taurus) to drive but, what a money pit as was the GrandAm!