Race vs Street Mileage

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^SORRY, but NOT with equally skilled drivers, and equal rubber/brake pad compounds on anything more open than an autocross course with 5' radius turns in it.

Maybe THIS is what you meant by your "twisties" (a term I HATE, BTW, since it is soooo 'ricer' sounding, and their first reflexive reply when they get roasted on a straightaway/apex exit, i.e.; "yeah, but I'll KILL you in the twisties")??

The 2000 IS a very balanced, responsive, tossably agile little car, BUT it DOES have it's limitations, however high they may be.

SORRY but you're wrong and I've got lots of seat time in the car over the past few years to back it up. I'm talking about road courses like NJMP Thunderbolt and Lightning and the North Course at Pocono where there are sections of closely linked turns. And twisties is not a ricer term, it's something I expect to see in a Dan Neil review in the WSJ. Cars that I can consistently be quicker than in in these sections: Nissan 350/370Z, C5 Vettes, Porsche Boxsters up to the 987 chassis (I only listed cars I encountered multiple times over several years as a good sample). Now pretty much any C5 Vette will walk away from me on a straight but that's not what I'm writing about.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Great respect here for the S2000, most of it for the track manners. Once wound up tight it goes well and the handling is on par with many much more expensive or exotic cars.

But it's all up to the driver! I outbraked a trailered-in Porsche at an HPDE in Homestead once at the entrance to the infield raceway from about 155 mph and he looked me up at lunch in complete consternation. He was simply intimidated by his car. One of the pro drivers took him out for a couple of hot laps and he was much faster after that!

S2000 ia a terrific car at the track, I actually do not like it for street use.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But it's all up to the driver! I outbraked a trailered-in Porsche at an HPDE in Homestead once at the entrance to the infield raceway from about 155 mph and he looked me up at lunch in complete consternation. He was simply intimidated by his car. One of the pro drivers took him out for a couple of hot laps and he was much faster after that.


THANK YOU!! ^^^THIS is what I was trying to explain.

If one keeps encountering the same skill lacking drivers in other cars, it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a fair comparison between actual cars, even if identically prepped otherwise.

I have seen 'lowly, low tech' LSx f bodies lapping ultra high buck, high snoot 'supercars' in open track sessions, if we want to start disregarding the driver's credibility.

 

[gofast182]

I understand what you're saying and don't disagree but in HPDE events, where drivers are grouped based on experience, I still feel comfortable with my statements because I've seen the types of cars I mentioned many, many times and with different drivers thus creating a logical sample in my mind.

As a side note, I also notice drivers of high-end/supercars being intimidated by their rides. There's no place on the street we can drive our cars to their potential and with such high HP in those cars, there are even tracks where its difficult, not to mention overwhelming for drivers who aren't used to it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Exactly. The street is generally a poor place to experiment with 160 mph threshold braking!

Precisely the reason I took to the track decades ago, I want to know where the limits of my platform lie. For many modern cars this is REALLY high now.

 

[KenO]

meh, it's not e30

 

[mattf2]

Mr. Gofast,

"Car and driver" ran an S2000 in SCCA T2 competion, using the logic that it was a nimble car with great power to weight, and should dominate the class.

IIRC, they were thoroughly trounced by LS1 powered camaros. Do some internet research, it should show up. Some time in the late 90's early 2000's?

In HPDE, I too have passed many "faster" cars, including porsches and Z06's. I have also been passed by many "slower' cars, including a miata or 2

Most of what you've seen at your DE's are the better driver going faster.



As far as road racing miles vs street miles, I've subscribed to 10:1 ratio. As we run 24 hours of LeMons and Chumpcar, we're running from 14-24 hours in a single race weekend. Lots of miles... the VIR 24 would typically be over 1400 miles for a top 25% team. If it's 15:1, we're putting some serious stress on that motor oil. Of course in an endurance race you're not running to redline on every shift.

 

[A_Harman]

For the most part, I've found S2000's to be rolling chicanes. I have had good dice's with one or two of them that are highly modified, but not stock or close to stock ones.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I owned one for 6 months I purchased at auction.

It was a gutless wonder from a stop, unless you had 4k on tap there wasn't enough to keep up with a ten speed. Sure, if I wicked it to the max it ran well. But it could barely keep up with traffic unless flogged.

A great track weapon but not my cup of tea on the street...

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: mattf2
Mr. Gofast,

"Car and driver" ran an S2000 in SCCA T2 competion, using the logic that it was a nimble car with great power to weight, and should dominate the class.

IIRC, they were thoroughly trounced by LS1 powered camaros. Do some internet research, it should show up. Some time in the late 90's early 2000's?

In HPDE, I too have passed many "faster" cars, including porsches and Z06's. I have also been passed by many "slower' cars, including a miata or 2

Most of what you've seen at your DE's are the better driver going faster.



As far as road racing miles vs street miles, I've subscribed to 10:1 ratio. As we run 24 hours of LeMons and Chumpcar, we're running from 14-24 hours in a single race weekend. Lots of miles... the VIR 24 would typically be over 1400 miles for a top 25% team. If it's 15:1, we're putting some serious stress on that motor oil. Of course in an endurance race you're not running to redline on every shift.

I guess it goes both ways depending on the variables. The S2000 is definitely a momentum racer so a track with more straights than turns/bends are not going to be its cup of tea. I have a buddy who races professionally with NASA and he's come to learn not to take the car to certain tracks. Another buddy has one, completely stock engine but with a built race suspension on slicks and he was beating a ZR-1 and a crazy fast Lotus Exige. To your other point, I agree that HPDE events have more of a driver skill factor involved than race events where that tends to even out.