quiet engine

[mjo]

A couple of weeks ago, I installed a Frantz toilet paper filter on my Saturn 1.9L '95 SL2 and can say that I am very pleased with it. During the first 500 miles I have noticed a substantial reduction in engine noise. The engine is barely even noticeable now at a stop or during a cruise and have also noticed a slight increase in power. The engine oil is the same Castrol GTX 5W-30 that I have used since I bought the car. I have a Sony CD player with AM/FM tuner that I normally listen to at a setting of 21-23 now I can set it at 14 and the radio stations are still clearly audible. The family notices the change as well.

This car usually burns a quart every 2000 miles. Although a pipe elbow has a slow drip to it which I have yet to cure (it's bad), I haven't noticed a reduction in the oil level.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[RalphPWood]

I remember back in the 60s when engines were very sensitive to dirty oil. Usually it was the hydraulic valve lifters that started rattling first. You could change the oil and the noise would go away. Installing a Motor Guard or Frantz also made the noise go away. An oil change was a temporary fix the filters were a permanent fix.
It is more common to notice a big difference with clean ATF. Transmission fluid is very dirty and transmissions are verty sensitive to dirty fluid. The stock transmission filters are even worse than the stock motor oil filters. Submicronic filters can only clean the fluids clean fluids can do a lot of things. It is very difficult to wear out equipment with clean lubricants. Clean lubricants will virtually stop equipment wear.
Allowing the oil to get dirty then changing it is not a good maintenance program.
"It's time to change our thinking not our oil."

Ralph

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by RalphPWood:
"It's time to change our thinking not our oil."

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Not to knock you Ralph, but in regards to aftermarket automotive filters, what do you have to say to that the reason that people get rid of their ride is because the vehicle itself is actually falling apart, NOT that the engine has actually failed due to lubrication issues.

Sure, a bypass filter may extend the life of a car or light truck engine, but what's the point when the vehicle that surrounds it is falling apart and no longer satisfies the owner?

 

[RalphPWood]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
[qb] "It's time to change our thinking not our oil."

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Not to knock you Ralph, but in regards to aftermarket automotive filters, what do you have to say to that the reason that people get rid of their ride is because the vehicle itself is actually falling apart.

I'm sorry, I'm Mrs. Ralph and I saw that on another forum and thought it said a lot. I have never added anything on Ralph's posts before without asking him. So because it wasn't his idea and he doesn't know about it and I can keep out of trouble if I don't tell him aboutit, I won't.

Mrs. Ralph

 

[Mykro]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

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Originally posted by RalphPWood:
"It's time to change our thinking not our oil."

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Not to knock you Ralph, but in regards to aftermarket automotive filters, what do you have to say to that the reason that people get rid of their ride is because the vehicle itself is actually falling apart, NOT that the engine has actually failed due to lubrication issues.

Sure, a bypass filter may extend the life of a car or light truck engine, but what's the point when the vehicle that surrounds it is falling apart and no longer satisfies the owner?

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Having a Bypass filter(s)installed on your vehicle is in keeping with proper maintenence with your vehicle. If you believe in keeping your vehicles in good condition 100% of the time than Bypass filtration is for you! I can be rest assured that my engine and transmission will last as long as possible before a premature repair comes along that bypass filtration could have prevented. If you believe that your vehicle is going to fall apart long before your engine or transmission will (whereever you have a bypass filter installed ) Than your glass is only half empty!! If you believe your glass is half full then you will keep your vehicle properly maintained and you will be constantly satisfied..

 

[mjo]

> Sure, a bypass filter may extend the life of a > car or light truck engine, but what's the point > when the vehicle that surrounds it is falling apart and no longer satisfies the owner?


Well, I've asked myself the same question. After looking through the Saturn repair manual at the steps that it takes to replace suspension parts vs. installing/rebuilding a used engine, I've found out that it takes significantly more work to do the latter than the former. Not only that, but suspension parts such as a broken control arm, struts, etc can be replaced with some of the more common tools, whereas overhauling an engine requires that you have various hard-to-find and expensive tools. IMO, the Saturn's suspension is simple and easier to replace than such cars as the mercedes or BMW.

A while ago I came to an article about bypass filters and mentions that the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) did a scientific experiment with xrays?? to record wear rates on an engine with & without bypass filters in conjunction with the regular full flow filter. Their finding was that a good bypass filter will extend the life of an engine by 2-3 times. Of course they mean only for an engine with a bypass filter preinstalled. What this means for a used engine with say 100k miles left on it is that if a bypass filter is installed on this engine then it should last for 200k-300k miles instead. Please reply if you would like me to cut and paste the aforementioned article.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mykro:
. If you believe that your vehicle is going to fall apart long before your engine or transmission will (whereever you have a bypass filter installed ) Than your glass is only half empty!! If you believe your glass is half full then you will keep your vehicle properly maintained and you will be constantly satisfied..

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I admire people who maintain their cars well and get 300,000+ miles out of them. I take good car of my cars, but usually get rid of them at about 200,000 miles because I want something new. There is no point to a bypass engine oil filter for someone who does that.

However, with the problems that are showing up in a variety of automatic tranmissions, a bypass filter for an AT might make sense for someone who is "only" keeping their car 150k-200k miles.

Bypass filters also make a lot of sense for someone who wants on "just because". There is more to life than just what makes the most economic sense.

 

[RalphPWood]

Clean oil will make a transmission and engine work a lot better even if you only keep the car 100 thousand miles. Allowing lubricants to get dirty, wear and foul the equipment then draining the lubricants benefit a lot of people but not the equipment owners. I was at an oil change place for an inspection sticker and that old cash register was ringing! Transmission flushes, engine flushes, oil and fluid changes. The best fluid to flush an engine or transmission is clean fluid. Some say that most wear is caused by starting your engine. If your oil is dirty most wear is caused by dirty oil. You have to be street wise or you are just a babe in the woods. It's like a guy that doesn't understand cars at a used car dealer. They sell you a filter that doesn't clean oil then they tell you to come back in 3,000 and they will drain your dirty oil. It takes me less the 2 minutes to change the Motor Guard and add a qt of oil every 4,000 miles on the Camry.
There are so many abrasives in transmission fluid it's a wonder they last as long as they do. Changing the Motor Guard every 50,000 on the Camry is more than it needs for the ATF. My next filter change will be due at 230,000 miles. Unless I get a bad tank of fuel the Camry should go another 100,000 for the fuel filter. I can do without dirty injectors.

Ralph

 

[RJCorazza]

Ralph Wood ;
How frequently should a Motor Guard diesel fuel filter be changed on a 2.2 L tractor? I installed one earlier this month without too much difficulty.
Its use is 200 hours per year, or about 8000 miles equivalent. (I use 1 hour=40 miles as opposed to 1=35 because the tractor is running full speed about 80% of the time). Also the fuel is filtered through a 10 micron filter during transfer and the OEM 15 micron filter gets the fuel before the Motor Guard filter. I am thinking of replacing the Motor Guard filter element perhaps every 2 years?

 

[RalphPWood]

quote:

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Originally posted by RJCorazza:
Ralph Wood ;
How frequently should a Motor Guard diesel fuel filter be changed on a 2.2 L tractor? I installed one earlier this month without too much difficulty....

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R J,
The way you have the Motor Guard hooked up the stock filters are doing most of the work and the Motor Guard only has to deal with what is too small for the stock filters to remove but still large enough to wear the injection system. A couple of years should work fine.
My tractor is a 51 Farmall Model H with a Chevrolet Celebrity 4 cylinder engine and a turbo hydromatic transmission hooked up to the Farmall transaxle with a 12" drive shaft. The fuel tank is the origional propane tank with a gasoline fill neck. The front end is a Ford truck twin I beam welded solid and pivoted in the middle. It has the Ford power steering. It has a Allison Chalmer front end loader with a trencher hydraulic pump driven off the front of the crankshaft. It has a Subaru fuel pump pulling gasoline thru a Motor Guard and feeding a Jeep carburator. I just got a fork truck roll bar to put on it.
Normally I like to install the Motor Guards as a primary filter to keep the stock filters clean. On the Ford Powerstrokes it works fine because they have a very good electric fuel pump. The Motor Guard is the best of the TP filters when you are putting them on vacuum. They don't leak vacuum unless you pinch paper in the gasket. When the (T) handle starts compressing the TP the paper will try to get out. The company I work for is using Cottonelle. I told the head engineer it's either get me some firmer TP or I will have to use the Motor Guard elements. He said use the Motor Guard elements. I have to remove the plastic core for hot lube oil. The next day after I put a 6 dollar element in the Caterpillar mechanic will take it out and put in TP.

Motor Guard rates their element at 1/10th micron. I can mix 1/20th micron average lamp black in fuel and remove enough of it on the first pass to turn it clear. TP will do the same thing. I am going to ship the filters with the Motor Guard elements. Motor Guard can't handle shipping me filters with no elements or internal parts. I am getting good at removing the cores so that they will fit my larger internal parts.
A Motor Guard dealer in Dallas says he has been selling the filters for 25 years and has never heard of using them for motor oil or fuel. I wonder where he things the name Motor Guard came from. When I signed up as a Motor Guard dealer in 1966 all they had was lube oil filters. People were using the lube oil filters for compressed air and other things. The young people out in California call what I do with the filters special use. There are still some old guys left. An old Motor Guard dealer and VW mechanic traded me a (30 year old) new M-100 still in the box for a M-30 to filter cooking oil for his VW diesel. I needed the instructions even though they are 30 years old. I had more info than the factory had kept. There are still people calling the factory asking about lube oil filters. They send they on to me.

Ralph

 

[sifan]

mjo - Since you did not change the oil while installing the Frantz filter, how many miles was on the oil? After 500 miles of driving as , did you notice any increase in engine load as the engine tries to push oil thru the dirty TP?

 

[mjo]

> mjo - Since you did not change the oil while >installing the Frantz filter, how many miles was > on the oil? After 500 miles of driving as , did >you notice any increase in engine load as the >engine tries to push oil thru the dirty TP?

Oops, there is a typo in my original message. What I meant to say was that I have used Castrol GTX for the Saturn since I bought it. Not that I have kept the original oil in it. Owned the car for 2 years now and did an oil change right after Frantz installation. The interesting point I was trying to make was that I noticed a difference not after the oil change but after 500 - 1k miles of driving it with bypass filter on it. Presumably, the TP roll was cleaning grit, water and what not out of the engine.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Sure, a bypass filter may extend the life of a car or light truck engine, but what's the point when the vehicle that surrounds it is falling apart and no longer satisfies the owner?

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Jelly, since the creation of the Frantz (or any other bypass filter), engines have had many .. many evolutions in regards to "cleaning up their act". Hence the benefit of them has been masked by typical life cycles of 100k plus. This was unheard of for a 50s, 60s, or 70s engine. Sure you would see a few here and there (I owned quite a few used 100k cars of 60s vintage) ..but the vast majority of them were in the bone yard. The longer living older engines were also MUCH more powerful. A 425 Olds V8 with 10.5:1 pistons still have ample power to propell the vehicle even if two or three of the cylinders were all but dead. Just index you expections to a higher level with contemporary engines.

Transmissions on the other hand ...have gone in the other direction IMHO. They've become MORE problematic and are just about THE most frequent killer to an otherwise functional automobile. No one is going to spend $1700-3000 to rebuild a trans in a car that has a book value of about the same amount. Some might ..but it takes a special view of transportation and maintenance that is far too rare in most consumers. If a $100-150 installation can eliminate this "weak link" ...the rest is up to your ability to basically keep the fit and finish of the car in acceptable condition. Sure other sub systems can take a crap ..but they tend to be of the $$$ amount that any car experiences in a sub-100k life cycle. A complete brake or exhaust job can run a good bit over a few hundred $$$ if the owner can't do it themselves. Does it matter if it's brakes or the AC ..or the PCM??

IMHO ..there aren't going to be too many technological advancements on the fuel economy front that are going to be "radical" ..at least in the piston engine. So depending on your wallet ..the cost of a $300-500 per month payment isn't going to make much sense if you've got a 25-30 (or more) mpg giving 100% service to you.

The rest is basically choice or vanity.

 

[RalphPWood]

Filters that clean oil have been around sinced the twenties and they are all bypass filters. Bypas filters were almost abandoned in the sixties except for some heavy duty engines. Filters that clean oil interfer with the oil change business big time. They also greatly increase engine life. Filters that clean oil do not make the engine work harder. The oil pressure the engine has depends on the pressure relief valve in the oil pump and the wear of the engine and oil pump. If the engine and oil pump are so badly worn that the oil pump can't supply the engine and have enough oil left for the oil filter you need to overhaul the engine and maybe replace the oil pump. I have seen a few where the oil pressure light would flicker at idle. After the filter was installed the oil light would stay on at idle. I try to avoid installing a submicronic bypass filter on a piece of junk. It's like the old song "A Fifty Dollar Saddle And a Ten Dollar Horse".
I like peiple that tell me to change the oil when I install the Motor Guards. I keep a 15 qt drain pan for that purpose. Fifteen quarts will keep me in oil for years. It made some sense to drain the oil when the Frantz or Motor Guard was installed in the old days when engines were very dirty. I believe in putting the filter to work. We used to toss the full flow filter so that the submicronic bypass filters didn't have to clean the full flow filter and the oil. My Toyota has no full flow filter.

Ralph