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Question regarding filters used for extended OCIs.
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I can't figure the full flow change. I'd tend to think that it would load with larger stuff, but would take longer to do so. Some believe that the full flow will be unused. I don't think I would make that stretch. You'll end up with a given level of cleanliness between them. TP/PT will catch some stuff that the full flow would otherwise see, but much of the stuff it takes out is below the full flow's capability.
I don't believe the full-flow is unused...especially in this application where the bypass is filtering "clean" oil from the full-flow filter (all the dirty oil passes through the full-flow). As I believe you have said in the past, even a screen door will catch a 1u particle, just not very efficiently. With this said, I also don't believe the sump is as dirty as we are made to believe...its multi-pass filtering oil that is in an enclosed loop.
I feel that, if the bypass is working, the full-flow should load up at a much slower rate than when installed by itself...mainly due to the fact the bypass is preventing soot agglomeration.
I can't figure the full flow change. I'd tend to think that it would load with larger stuff, but would take longer to do so. Some believe that the full flow will be unused. I don't think I would make that stretch. You'll end up with a given level of cleanliness between them. TP/PT will catch some stuff that the full flow would otherwise see, but much of the stuff it takes out is below the full flow's capability.
I don't believe the full-flow is unused...especially in this application where the bypass is filtering "clean" oil from the full-flow filter (all the dirty oil passes through the full-flow). As I believe you have said in the past, even a screen door will catch a 1u particle, just not very efficiently. With this said, I also don't believe the sump is as dirty as we are made to believe...its multi-pass filtering oil that is in an enclosed loop.
I feel that, if the bypass is working, the full-flow should load up at a much slower rate than when installed by itself...mainly due to the fact the bypass is preventing soot agglomeration.
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Quote:
With this said, I also don't believe the sump is as dirty as we are made to believe...its multi-pass filtering oil that is in an enclosed loop.
More applicable in a hydraulic system. In your engine you're constantly adding material. It's going to be on a curve of what gets missed ..until the filters are taking out less and less and the accumulation is getting more and more.
..but that's not saying that you're wrong about the less dirty than we think thing.
Quote:
I feel that, if the bypass is working, the full-flow should load up at a much slower rate than when installed by itself...mainly due to the fact the bypass is preventing soot agglomeration.
As far as soot, yes. I don't know how a diesel produces insolubles. In a gas engine they appear to fall into a filterable range ..except those that aren't
With this said, I also don't believe the sump is as dirty as we are made to believe...its multi-pass filtering oil that is in an enclosed loop.
More applicable in a hydraulic system. In your engine you're constantly adding material. It's going to be on a curve of what gets missed ..until the filters are taking out less and less and the accumulation is getting more and more.
..but that's not saying that you're wrong about the less dirty than we think thing.
Quote:
I feel that, if the bypass is working, the full-flow should load up at a much slower rate than when installed by itself...mainly due to the fact the bypass is preventing soot agglomeration.
As far as soot, yes. I don't know how a diesel produces insolubles. In a gas engine they appear to fall into a filterable range ..except those that aren't
Well...
I didn't get to 20k, only got to a little more than 17.5k...I did some experimenting with my programmer (there was a software update) and also had been towing heavy. The oil went from looking pretty good to looking pretty bad, and I had a long trip coming up that would have put me over 20k. So I changed oil but didn't have the opportunity to grab a sample. I think the combination of driving with the high-performance setting on the programmer some of the time and the heavy towing added a lot of soot to the oil.
I did however cut both filters apart, and both were in fine shape. Neither had anything caught in the pleats (part of me hoped to see the bypass full of [censored]). The media looked perfectly fine...nothing deformed. I feel 20k would be easy to get with these filters, and I'm shooting for that now that I'm back to a more normal schedule (highway non-towing driving and programmer on an "economy" setting).
Live and learn...
I didn't get to 20k, only got to a little more than 17.5k...I did some experimenting with my programmer (there was a software update) and also had been towing heavy. The oil went from looking pretty good to looking pretty bad, and I had a long trip coming up that would have put me over 20k. So I changed oil but didn't have the opportunity to grab a sample. I think the combination of driving with the high-performance setting on the programmer some of the time and the heavy towing added a lot of soot to the oil.
I did however cut both filters apart, and both were in fine shape. Neither had anything caught in the pleats (part of me hoped to see the bypass full of [censored]). The media looked perfectly fine...nothing deformed. I feel 20k would be easy to get with these filters, and I'm shooting for that now that I'm back to a more normal schedule (highway non-towing driving and programmer on an "economy" setting).
Live and learn...
I have gone both 15,000 (one year) on same filter and also 18 months (3000 miles) on same filter. Both cases were K&N and not have switched to NAPA Gold and believe they will hold up as well. I did have UOA back then for the cases mentioned above, UOA was fine. As I noted many times on this forum, I did a UOA during two 15,000 mile runs once with the filter changed at 7500 and once with no change in filter. Both UOA were similar. My conclusion, (also after cutting them open) was, on a normally operating engine the filters are pretty much useless appendages.
Originally Posted By: Spector
I have gone both 15,000 (one year) on same filter and also 18 months (3000 miles) on same filter. Both cases were K&N and not have switched to NAPA Gold and believe they will hold up as well. I did have UOA back then for the cases mentioned above, UOA was fine. As I noted many times on this forum, I did a UOA during two 15,000 mile runs once with the filter changed at 7500 and once with no change in filter. Both UOA were similar. My conclusion, (also after cutting them open) was, on a normally operating engine the filters are pretty much useless appendages.
I had been using 1 oil filter for 2 OCI's of 6-7k/6mo in '94 LS400, even with the cheapo Proline I got FAR from Pep Boys. I'm thinking about using 1 cartridge oil filter for 2 years in '00 E430 for a total mileage of 22-25k miles, after seeing the filter in excellent shape without any debris with 12-13k/12mo OCI.
I have gone both 15,000 (one year) on same filter and also 18 months (3000 miles) on same filter. Both cases were K&N and not have switched to NAPA Gold and believe they will hold up as well. I did have UOA back then for the cases mentioned above, UOA was fine. As I noted many times on this forum, I did a UOA during two 15,000 mile runs once with the filter changed at 7500 and once with no change in filter. Both UOA were similar. My conclusion, (also after cutting them open) was, on a normally operating engine the filters are pretty much useless appendages.
I had been using 1 oil filter for 2 OCI's of 6-7k/6mo in '94 LS400, even with the cheapo Proline I got FAR from Pep Boys. I'm thinking about using 1 cartridge oil filter for 2 years in '00 E430 for a total mileage of 22-25k miles, after seeing the filter in excellent shape without any debris with 12-13k/12mo OCI.
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