Question about viscisity

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Originally Posted By: kschachn
So one should not believe ExxonMobil when they say:

"Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy is engineered to offer the same high temperature/high shear viscosity performance as 5W-30 and 10W-30, so it is a good fit for the Florida heat. You can use it with confidence. Same goes for Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy and 5W-20."



They're misleading people by omission. In an abstract sense, they are not incorrect (and that's all that's required for legal CYA), but they omitted identifying the specific type of 5w30/10w30 that AFE shares an HTHS with, the type of 5w30 and 10w30 unique to the North American continent with ~
If you ask me, the 2.0DISI *cough* err I mean 2.0 Ecoboots will 'survive just fine' on ~3.0cP, after all, their higher powered, higher torqued big brother, the 2.3L DISI did so just fine, and even on 5w20 for nearly ten years now.

The only problems that surfaced were from occasional severe viscosity breakdown in the turbo bearing section (when using only low HTHSV RC oils mind you) causing leakage into the K04 turbine housing (and oil smoke) and premature timing chain wear when using the same [censored] low HTHS 30 grades. No big deal, that kind of performance could still be considered "just fine" by some person.

But OP, if you have any sort of estimation that you'll at all have heavy demands on the engine, a 40 grade will actually be more suitable to protect your investment in the long run. But after all OP, it's your investment, not Ford's, not the EPA's, yours. Choose wisely.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Isn't Ford the automaker that started the 5w20 bandwagon??? 5w50 for a certain performance car and now 5w30 for a turbo-4. What's that tell you? 5w20 not good enough?

What it tells me is that different grades are appropriate for different applications. And since the 5W-50 grade is rarely specified it's also rarely appropriate and I posit never for street use.
No Ford is not the first on the "5W-20 bandwagon" and the grades been around for a good 50 years. For example it was spec'd for my girlfriends '69 Datsun 510 for winter use.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

>5W-50
>rarely specified
therefore
>rarely appropriate

1: logical fallacy
2: lubricating oil has one primary function; to keep parts separated. please, enlighten us all as to how a higher degree of parts separation is "rarely appropriate"


Quote:

and I posit never for street use.

lol
straight up sensationalism
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
If Ford seems to think that it is fine for their 2L turbo, not sure why anyone would feel the need to doubt it.


Exactly what I was thinking!

Originally Posted By: dennishiip
I live in California and drive down central valley in 110 degree heat and was thinking the 40W would help in those conditions. I also wonder abut oils shearing down to lower viscosity after some miles rendering them less effective.


Lately I've been staying out of most of these discussions. I will say that in my Grand Marquis I have driven up and down the Grapevine on 100+ degree days with 4 adults and a truck load full of suitcases with no problem. My oil? 5W-20. I have made MULTIPLE trips from San Diego to Phoenix in 115 degree heat in all of my cars. In all of them (except the Mercury) I have used 5W-30 dino. NEVER an oil related problem.

The Aerostar has over 200K miles. The Trailblazer had at least 75K miles when I sold it. The Camry is approaching 100K miles (The Camry doesn't go to Phoenix very often but often goes into the Ca. desert around Indio/Thermal area.) The Mercury that has had 5W-20 all it's life is at 133K miles.

My point is - use what the manufacturer recommends and you will be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
kschachn said:
But OP, if you have any sort of estimation that you'll at all have heavy demands on the engine, a 40 grade will actually be more suitable to protect your investment in the long run. But after all OP, it's your investment, not Ford's, not the EPA's, yours. Choose wisely.

Boy that's as good an example of irrational fear mongering that I've heard in a while.
Define "any sort of ... heavy demands on the engine" and how are you going to measure it? Of course you're not interested in determining what it is but prefer to blindly recommending a 40 grade oil for a light A5/B5 30 grade application second guessing that the OEM has somehow not provided sufficient viscosity reserves in there recommendation.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
CATERHAM said:
2: lubricating oil has one primary function; to keep parts separated. please, enlighten us all as to how a higher degree of parts separation is "rarely appropriate"

Since you clearly don't understand the subject matter I'm pleased to.
If a 0W-20 for example provides all the "parts separation" you could ever require why would you run anything heavier with all the disadvantages associated with it.
Even a light 0W-20 is way heavier than necessary every time an engine is started until oil temp's of at least 70C are achieved.
The lubrication tenet is "As light as possible, as thick as necessary". You seem to believe it's "As thick as possible, as light as necessary". Well I'm sorry but once it has been established just how thick an oil is required for the oil temp's that will be encountered plus allowing for fuel dilution and oil shear, running anything heavier becomes counterproductive.
 
About 15 years ago I decided to do an experiment on my own, we were going from PA to Fla, I changed the oil and filter and filled the crankcase with Sunoco 10W-40. When we got to Fla I checked the oil and realized I used 1 quart of 10-40, on the return trip I used the same amount, 1 qt.
The next year we planned the same trip, with the exact same car, I changed the oil just before the trip but this time filled the crancase with 20W-50, when I got to Fla, I only used half of a qt, and on the return trip, another half. I used 1/2 of the 20W-50 as compared to the 10W-40. This showed me under extreme heat and high speeds the 20W-50 was better, and gave more protection. Till this day I use a heavier oil in the summer and a lighter weight in the winter. I have a Dodge neon that I use 20W50 in the summer, and 10W-30 in the winter, I have 148,000 miles on it and still runs beautiful, Dino only in this car.
 
Amen Caterham. Like the OP said, 5w-30 is the weight Ford likes for that engine. Just buy a quality oil in that weight and sleep well at night. Your engine will last longer than the rest of the car will.
 
This isn't a thick vs thin thread.

I used the afe0w30 and have had it drop to 8.9-9.2cst. I won't recommend it for anything other than MPG.

This 2.0t holds 5.7 quarts, which seems alot for a small engine!
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech

I used the afe0w30 and have had it drop to 8.9-9.2cst.

And what damage, if any, did it cause to your engine?
 
Not to be a [censored], but i didn't have the time to disassemble the engine and measure everything just for you. Maybe next time.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Not to be a [censored], but i didn't have the time to disassemble the engine and measure everything just for you. Maybe next time.

So I guess you don't really know if there was any harm done.
 
The average Ford will be driven for more miles than the average German car through its lifespan.
These Fords survive just fine on the viscosities Ford recommends.
Therefore, use the grade Ford recommends and sleep well.
If you want to use a Euro spec oil, go right ahead.
No harm will be done.
This engine, like most, will tolerate a wide range of SAE grades as well as HTHSV.
Just check what's recommended in other markets.
IDK if this powertrain is offered in Japan, but if it is a 0W-20 would be recommended, while in Europe, an old-school forty grade would be the favored blend.
Use what you'd like but rest assured that the API SN 5W-30 that the OEM recommends will allow the engine to outlast the rest of the car.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Where is everyone seeing this?

Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
0w30afe tends to shear quickly into a 20 grade. Might not good be the best choice if visc is needed.


Yeah, it hasn't ever sheared for me
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Define "any sort of ... heavy demands on the engine" and how are you going to measure it?


Simple. Does the owner plan to 'lean on it' for a while or do any other sort of competitive sprint runs, track the vehicle? And how might he measure his intentions?

Quote:

Of course you're not interested in determining what it is
but prefer to blindly recommending a 40 grade oil for a light A5/B5 30 grade application




Considering it's power density and big, red-hot hairdryer A3/B4 is perfect (more optimal from a engine wear perspective) for for maximum, longest-term wear protection, not A5/B5-like Starburst oils. Too bad the latter is cheaper, most available here and slashing 'viscosity reserves' from an A3/B4 theoretically boost Ford's CAFE score.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
No Ford is not the first on the "5W-20 bandwagon" and the grades been around for a good 50 years. For example it was spec'd for my girlfriends '69 Datsun 510 for winter use.


Is that the one that "specs" 5W20 up to a blistering 10F, while 10W30 can go from under 10F to over 90F ?

Wouldn't call that being part of any bandwagon really...nor really a specification, just a limited option in the day when there were obviously more suitable lubricants that could be used all year 'round.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Mobil recommends it's 0W-40 for pretty much every application everywhere there is no CAFE.


Not for this engine. Ford specify WSS-M2C-913D (5w30) for the 2.0L Ecoboost even when fitted to Australian Ford Falcons. Come to think of it, 335kw Supercharged V8 Falcons take good old 5w20 too. The big 310kw 4L I6 turbo Falcon on the other hand does spec something different, 15w40.
 
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