Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Apples and oranges IMO. The 820s is an OEM filter designed to go the full OCI of the vehicle per the OLM which could be well over 10k. MC filters are a value, but I don't consider them value "jobber" filters like the Classic, Fram PH, Pro Select, Drive Works, STP etc. They are also constructed of different media.. How different? Who knows. The Classic is good for that too apparently, but it has too many grey areas in terms of when or when not to use a P1 vs. a Classic IMO.
They aren't really apples to oranges. The FL-820S is just a much better value because of the extra "features" like the threaded-end bypass (a Ford-spec thing that even none of the premium aftermarket filters for that app have BTW) and the silicone ADBV, which is meant to deal with the bleed-down issue that causes start-up rattle on the Modular.
Efficiency-wise, they are very similar. The FL-820S uses Ford-spec media, which, based on the latest rash of tears, appears to be better than the Classic (and PureONE) media. But the efficiency, as I noted, is quite comparable. And also, the Classic and PureONE have the same warranty, LOL! Neither are designed to be run longer than the factory OCI. The difference between the two really comes down to the silicone ADBV and the more efficient media in the PureONE. The former being the reason Purolator, IMHO, recommends the PureONE for vehicles that see more than 15K in annual mileage (due to the hardening of the nitrile unit).
Also, if we were to bring the cheapo FRAM's into the mix, again, very comparable efficiency-wise. None of the FRAM offerings, not even the Ultra, have the threaded-end bypass.
But if we move past the FL-820S, which we all acknowledge to be a great value, what about the Honda, Hyundai and Toyota OEM filters? Construction-wise there is far less of a difference between them and their aftermarket brethren. They are nothing special. And the efficiency on some of them is abysmal.
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
If one was to have an engine failure due to a Classic being ran too long, I bet Purolator would just either not respond to the email or say the filter was misused.
Yes, I bet they would be difficult but they cannot say it was misused if the manual was followed for OCI length. How they are in dealing with warranty issues is another thing all together than what their warranty says. Which is a bit of a nod to just using OEM filters IMHO.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I honestly like how Fram categorized their filters by intended usage. Very dummy proof and easy to determine correct usage. Plus as I said before, the ADBV of the Classic would most likely be as stiff as a dog toy after that use 10k+.
True on the ADBV, but many of the OEM ADBV's aren't silicone either. The MOPAR filters use nitrile for example. The silicone ADBV is IIRC, primarily a Ford thing.
And even with FRAM, despite their marketing "spin":
Originally Posted By: FRAM
FRAM EXTRA GUARD® Oil Filter
For everyday drivers who perform routine maintenance on their vehicle every 3,000-5,000 miles.1 Extra Guard is engineered for use with conventional oil.
The reference for that little "1" states:
Quote:
1 Follow recommended change intervals as noted in your vehicle owner's manual
Because the filter manufacturer cannot REQUIRE you to change the filter sooner than the OEM dictates. In order to qualify as an OEM replacement part, it MUST be suitable for the OEM change intervals.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Its interesting to see how this thread turned around.. Decreasing use in Purolator filters to how long it is safe to run a classic filter which is determinded by reading between the lines of a company with a [censored] poor reputation in customer service.
OVERKILL, realistically, how long would you consider running a classic anyways? (Assuming they aren't known to tear within the first few hundred miles of normal use.)
I think the thread got interesting
If I was a person inclined to run cheap filters (I'm not), I would run a Classic on any application that it was spec'd for for the duration listed in the manual. UNLESS it was an application that is known for ADBV issues (like a Modular).
So, I'd run one on the Charger for example, with no concerns, for a 10,000Km (not miles) OCI. Even with the nitrile ADBV because the filter is threads-up, making the ADBV issue moot and the factory filter is really very similar in construction (I cut and posted one recently).
On the other hand, there is no Classic for my M5, and the FRAM is a just a re-boxed MANN.
But I would not run one on the Expedition and in fact I've pretty much shied away from all aftermarket filters in that application due to the benefits and value the FL-820S offers.
I think we often forget that many of the filters we discuss on here (FRAM ULtra, AMSOIL EaO, Royal Purple...etc) are actually significantly BETTER than the OEM filters for most applications, particularly the Asian ones I've already touched-on. In those cases, the filters like the Classic, Fram PH line...etc really ARE a direct replacement for OEM and in some cases actually offer higher efficiency.
Fleets of cabs, police and limo's use those cheap filters at the factory OCI length successfully for insane amounts of mileage. It is because we obsess over the minutia on BITOG that our views are so jaded. It doesn't make us wrong, but it does bring one to pause and consider the actual relevance. If Jim Bob can get 200,000 miles out of his 4.6L changing PYB and Orange Can's at the interval dictated in the manual, where is the added value I'm getting out of using an FL-820S and Mobil 1? Yes, my engine will be cleaner at the same mileage, but if it isn't the engine failing that ultimately is the demise of the vehicle then what have I accomplished? It is that kind of stuff that we need to be considering IMHO.
This doesn't mean I'm going to change my habits BTW
I'm using a FRAM Ultra and AFE 0w-20 in the Charger, FL-820S and the rest of my PU 5w-30 in the Expedition at the moment. But I am definitely aware of the fact that buddy using whatever he found on sale at Walmart with a matching screaming orange can will probably get the same life out of his vehicle. My buddy's brother blew up his F-250 the year before last because the shop forgot to put oil in it after changing it. It spent its life with the oil being changed at like Jiffy Lube or something following the interval dictated by Ford. It had something like 600,000Km on it on what we would consider a "junk" combo.
And then we've got our own Dave Newton running what we all consider insane OCI's using the very "junk" we are discussing here
