Purolator use decreasing here?

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

It is required to last the factory OCI (and is warranted to last the factory OCI), whatever that is, even if it is 15K+.

That said, most vehicles that run those kinds of OCI's are European and buying a Purolator/FRAM/WIX will often net you discovering a MANN or HENGST (though the former now owns Purolator so...?) in the box anyway.

Also, it seems to be a trend that vehicles running those OCI's have a cartridge filter. The BMW ones for example, while not appearing to be anything other than cellulose (though they could have some synthetic fibres but that is an unknown) are quite large in size, which aides in allowing them to last that long. Of course the spec'd lubricant is also designed for that interval too and they are fitted with large sumps.

Your regular small sumped car isn't going to spec a 15k+ change interval but most of them don't call for a premium long-drain synthetic lubricant either. And by and large these will be the cars that the Classic is being used on.


BMW has rolled back the change interval to 10,000 miles on my cars in spite of their 7 and 8 quart sumps filled with LL-01 BMW motor oil.

The BMW filters used are worthy of 10,000 mile changes but they are much more robust than anything that can be purchased from the commercial filter manufacturers.

To use one of the STP, FRAM, or Purolator (not Mann) built filters in any of my BMW's would be downright stupid.

But the BMW comparison doesn't apply here at all.

Wobbly's ecotec is notoriously hard on all aftermarket filters.

I don't think anyone here on BITOG would expect a bargain filter and Warren dino to withstand 15,000 miles in this application.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Then let's try this one:

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/resources/Pages/FAQs.aspx

Originally Posted By: Purolator

Q: How often should I change my oil filter?
A: The mileage at which to change oil and filters really depends on factors like the driving habits, mileage on the vehicle, and the manufacturer’s recommendation for changing your engine oil and filters. Purolator recommends you change your oil and oil filter every 3,000 miles or as specified by your vehicle’s manufacturer.


So essentially, if you have no OEM guideline, go 3K. Otherwise, follow the OEM's recommendations.


Exactly ... it's not rocket science.

 

[dlundblad]

Regardless of what that says, most here (myself included) would never run a classic to 10-15k intervals. I'm sure the ADBV would stiff as heck too.

 

[WobblyElvis]

The typical manufacturer recommended filter change interval for an automobile in the 60's was 12,000 miles. In the 70's, 15,000 miles. These were big V8s with 5 quart sumps and the engines wore a lot faster. What is hard to believe about 10-15,000 mile filter changes now? If you are going to sell oil filters, your product better meet the longevity requirements of the OEM filter or you are just asking for trouble. The computers on todays cars will often not tell the operator to change oil and filter for well over 10,000 miles. A product that cannot meet this requirement is a serious problem.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Do you think an extended drain is longer than 15,000 miles?


Depends on the application. For may "extended drain" European applications, yes, you are going beyond 15,000 miles.

The fortunate thing is that many of those European applications will not have a Puro Classic or P1 listed, but will have the European (i.e. made in Germany) Bosch, Mann, etc. So, potential media tears or a "budget" filter won't really be concerns.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I just examined the Purolator Classic oil filter removed from my 2.2 GM ecotec engine three days ago. 10,000 mile OCI. The media has several small holes in it. Two days ago I posted in this very thread that I was happy with Purolator filters but not any more. I know 10,000 miles is longer than most people use a filter for but it should not disintegrate like this. I will stay away from Purolator filters.
Fine, you have to care for your engine, but please look at whatever your replacement is after the same milage.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6

BMW has rolled back the change interval to 10,000 miles on my cars in spite of their 7 and 8 quart sumps filled with LL-01 BMW motor oil.


But they have not on other models that spec the longer change intervals including my M5.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The BMW filters used are worthy of 10,000 mile changes but they are much more robust than anything that can be purchased from the commercial filter manufacturers.

To use one of the STP, FRAM, or Purolator (not Mann) built filters in any of my BMW's would be downright stupid.


You must have missed the part when I said you are likely to find the "right" filter in the box even if you buy a Purolator/WIX/FRAM, as the product found in the box is often not. That said, if you DO have a part that they've crossed, it will be warranted for the factory OCI, as we are discussing. Even if that OCI is 15+ thousand miles.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
But the BMW comparison doesn't apply here at all.


Sure it does. They spec a cellulose filter for an insanely long change interval, which is exactly what we are discussing. The key facts are that the filters are large cartridges on cars with large sumps that spec a long-drain synthetic oil as well. The entire system, from filter to lubricant, is designed for the extended drain interval. A Purolator classic, spec'd for a long drain application will be built to withstand the manufacturer spec'd OCI.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Wobbly's ecotec is notoriously hard on all aftermarket filters.

I don't think anyone here on BITOG would expect a bargain filter and Warren dino to withstand 15,000 miles in this application.


The context of this discussion is the general acceptable usage profile for the Purolator filters, which you cited as 3K. I provided evidence that this is not the case. They warranty their product for the manufacturer's dictated OCI, even if that OCI is 15K+. Now of course those applications will be few and far between but that really isn't the point. The point is that the filter is required to last in the application it is spec'd for at whatever interval is dictated by the OEM. Nothing more, nothing less. The conservative 3K change interval is for applications without an OEM OCI guideline.

Whether one FEELS comfortable running one of these filters at that change interval is a completely different subject. And this is why I change my oil at 10K (Kilometers, not miles) in my M5, despite the fact that I know the system is designed for longer. The car fuel dilutes like crazy when the weather gets cold and that is something the OLM doesn't appear to account for. This is also why I run M1 0w-40 instead of the BMW 5w-30, I FEEL it is a better oil (and I take its myriad of factory approvals as proof of that) because, like yourself, I want to do what I feel is best by my car.

What is required or specified by the OEM is often very different from what we personally feel comfortable with and while it has been demonstrated a number of times on here by people like dnewton that the OEM guidelines are conservative, many of us, myself included, are still uncomfortable with them. That doesn't change their legitimacy however.

Oh, and Dave would almost definitely expect Warren Dino and a Puro Classic to last 15K miles. Try to find some of his threads, they'll probably disturb you as much as they do me, LOL!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The context of this discussion is the general acceptable usage profile for the Purolator filters, which you cited as 3K. I provided evidence that this is not the case. They warranty their product for the manufacturer's dictated OCI, even if that OCI is 15K+.


+1 ... that's exactly how all the words from Purolator literally reads. If they don't intend that to be the case, then Purolator better change their use & warranty statements.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The context of this discussion is the general acceptable usage profile for the Purolator filters, which you cited as 3K. I provided evidence that this is not the case. They warranty their product for the manufacturer's dictated OCI, even if that OCI is 15K+.


+1 ... that's exactly how all the words from Purolator literally reads. If they don't intend that to be the case, then Purolator better change their use & warranty statements.


To me, their warranty statements mean nothing. We have all seen proof of that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The context of this discussion is the general acceptable usage profile for the Purolator filters, which you cited as 3K. I provided evidence that this is not the case. They warranty their product for the manufacturer's dictated OCI, even if that OCI is 15K+.


+1 ... that's exactly how all the words from Purolator literally reads. If they don't intend that to be the case, then Purolator better change their use & warranty statements.


To me, their warranty statements mean nothing. We have all seen proof of that.


Agreed ... a stated warranty vs how they treat a warrant are two different things. But it's pretty clear what the words of their filter use duration statement says.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The context of this discussion is the general acceptable usage profile for the Purolator filters, which you cited as 3K. I provided evidence that this is not the case. They warranty their product for the manufacturer's dictated OCI, even if that OCI is 15K+.


+1 ... that's exactly how all the words from Purolator literally reads. If they don't intend that to be the case, then Purolator better change their use & warranty statements.


To me, their warranty statements mean nothing. We have all seen proof of that.


Agreed ... a stated warranty vs how they treat a warrant are two different things. But it's pretty clear what the words of their filter use duration statement says.


Exactly. That being said, how much is a warranty worth by a company that doesn't treat their warrants properly?

 

[SilverC6]

You guys go ahead and run your Purolator Classics and other value priced filters out to 15,000 miles.

As for your treatise here on why you should be able to run a Purolator Classic for 15,000 miles, you've convinced only yourselves.

Personally, I hope newbies on this site don't pick up your advice and run with it.

They may not realize that you are speaking rhetorically while doing something totally different.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

The owner's manual for my '76 Plymouth PB100 with the slant-six says to change the oil every 5000 miles and the filter every other oil change.

A 10,000 mile filter change interval is nothing new.

I've got almost all my vehicles changed over to Wix, though I've never had a problem with Purolator.

 

[dlundblad]

Do you still change the filter every other change with 5000 mile oil changes?

 

[MinamiKotaro]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Do you still change the filter every other change with 5000 mile oil changes?


Yep.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
You guys go ahead and run your Purolator Classics and other value priced filters out to 15,000 miles.

As for your treatise here on why you should be able to run a Purolator Classic for 15,000 miles, you've convinced only yourselves.

Personally, I hope newbies on this site don't pick up your advice and run with it.

They may not realize that you are speaking rhetorically while doing something totally different.





It isn't rhetorical at all and you seem to be missing the point, I can only hope this is on purpose and you are being intentionally obtuse. Nobody is stating that it is a wise move to run a Classic blindly for 15K. They are saying run the filter for the manufacturer's required interval which has the potential to be up to or beyond 15K, but as we all know, this is very RARELY the case and usually only applies to Euro applications where there probably won't be a Classic available anyways.

The statement that was taken issue with was yours, which was that the Classic was only good for 3K. This is wrong. The Classic is good for the recommended factory interval; it is REQUIRED to meet the OEM interval and is warrantied as such. In a situation where there is no OEM recommended interval, Purolator recommends a 3K OCI.

This really isn't that hard to understand.

You seem to be missing the boat on the difference between what a filter is RATED for (and warranted for) and whether this is being advocated as a bright move. I tried to indicate earlier, and thought I explained quite well, that these are two very different things. Nobody looking for premium filtration or extended drain usage is going to be advised to run the Classic. It is an OEM-style replacement meant to be run for the OEM-advised interval. It is meant to meet the basic filtration and capacity needs dictated by the manufacturer for the manufactured stated oil change schedule, nothing more. Purolator recommends that the PureONE be used for cars that see higher annual mileage but it has the exact same warranty as the Classic.

Extended drain interval filters are those like the Fram Ultra, M1 EP, AMSOIL EaO...etc. Filters specifically designed to go LONGER than the factory interval; these are not just designed to last the OEM OCI. They are in a different category and anybody on here looking for advice on either a premium filter, an extended drain filter or both will be advised as such.

You seem to be so caught up in your own personal bias that you aren't really understanding what is being said.

 

[SilverC6]

I understand the discussion clearly.

Your legalistic analysis just doesn't make any sense other than as a purely academic discussion.

I personally believe commercial oil filter manufacturers are not yet up to speed with auto manufacturers' recommendations for extended drains.

I don't see value priced filters from commercial filter manufacturers being much different than they were 15 years ago.

But the demands on these filters have doubled or even tripled with the advent of 10,000 or 15,000 mile OCI's.

Certainly, in the future, you will see more entry level filters using composite media or even full synthetic media to meet these higher service demands.

In the interim, I wouldn't bet the family car on any current value priced oil filter for a 15,000 mile OCI.

 

[WobblyElvis]

The filter change schedule recommended by GM in 1976 was 15,000 miles. This is not new.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
The filter change schedule recommended by GM in 1976 was 15,000 miles. This is not new.


With all the [censored] oil they had back then, I am very surprised. Somebody somewhere must not have known something.. Just like how smoking wasn't thought to be bad for you. Oil today is much better than it was then yet I think its fair to assume newer model vehicles (that are very easy on oil) average around 10,000 mile OCIs.

Maybe I am wrong in my thinking? Who knows..

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I understand the discussion clearly.


Then where is the disconnect? This reply doesn't make sense in the context of my above post. If you understand what I'm saying, then we should be on the same page. But we are obviously not.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Your legalistic analysis just doesn't make any sense other than as a purely academic discussion.


It makes perfect sense in the context of what we were discussing, which was your claim that the Classic was, as per Purolator, only good for 3K miles. That is patently false and I hope we've moved past that now.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I personally believe commercial oil filter manufacturers are not yet up to speed with auto manufacturers' recommendations for extended drains.

I don't see value priced filters from commercial filter manufacturers being much different than they were 15 years ago.

But the demands on these filters have doubled or even tripled with the advent of 10,000 or 15,000 mile OCI's.

Certainly, in the future, you will see more entry level filters using composite media or even full synthetic media to meet these higher service demands.

In the interim, I wouldn't bet the family car on any current value priced oil filter for a 15,000 mile OCI.


But the construction in most of these filters (except the Euro ones which we've already discussed) aren't much different than the OEM filters. If there was a big difference I'd agree with you, but I don't see that difference. What I see is a short list of premium aftermarket filters designed and marketed for extended drain intervals beyond the OEM OCI and the majority of the filters, everything ranging from the FRAM orange can to the Purolator Classic and PureONE filters, being designed and marketed for the factory OCI.

The construction of the FL-820S for example, aside from the threaded-end bypass and silicone ADBV isn't much different from the Classic. Take a look at the Honda filters, essentially FRAM TG's. Most of the OEM filters, designed and tested for the OEM intervals, aren't anything exotic and some of them are horrible at filtration compared to some of the aftermarket filters, like a few specific Honda and Toyota OEM filters with efficiency ratings in the 50% range.

The really neat filters aren't OEM at all, and come from those same commercial filter manufacturers you appear to be chastising as "not up to speed", but they are the non-OEM filters, specifically designed for extended drain use. These filters are BETTER in construction and filtration than the OEM filters.

If the issue is with the type of filter spec'd for the OEM intervals, intervals that are getting longer in length, then the issue should be with the OEM, as they are the ones that set the standards for the application. A quick analysis of the OEM filter for a given application should tell you how exotic or mundane those standards are. That said, even the FL-820S, a non-exotic filter and a pretty good "value" filter, handles long drain intervals incredibly well as demonstrated by a number of members here, particularly 2010_FX4, who has run long drain intervals with them and done plenty of "cut and posts".