With a fully signed title, I don’t understand why a bill of sale is required. Is the title marked with the dealership as the owner? If not, just say you bought it privately.
Poop Storm Used Car Purchase
- Thread starter Kurtatron
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Anyone can sign a title however a bill of sale is simple legal document supporting transfer of ownership including specifics like price paid, parties involved , VIN etc.
I don’t understand why anyone would not provide a bill of sale nor ask for one unless something is shady or they don’t know better (original poster ).
The bill of sale is just another layer to protect the buyer and the seller and these could just as easily be forged as the title signature.
But the issue here is DMV not transferring the ownership because there is no bill of sale. Usually it’s not a requirement. Maybe Florida is different
Edit:
Here are the requirements in Florida, no mention of the bill of sale document.
Sorry if I missed it in this mess.. I mean thread, but you have the clean title for the vehicle, right?
Why not just print a generic receipt off your DMV's website and fill it out yourself as if the vehicle was private sale. Make up your own receipt.
Why not just print a generic receipt off your DMV's website and fill it out yourself as if the vehicle was private sale. Make up your own receipt.
A bill of sale is just a handwritten anything -- as was noted it could literally be on a napkin or fast food wrapper.
It's more easily forged than a title which is an official document with watermarks or stamping or [insert security feature].
They also really make me nervous because it's very plausible the VIN is written incorrectly or illegible, or the date is wrong (maybe it's that January time of year when we're still used to writing 2023 but it just became 2024) and that will only cause problems and confusion-- another reason I'll never volunteer a bill of sale. Now, if it's required and they ask for it, obviously there's no choice.
Whether a signature on a title is forged or an entire bill of sale is forged, it's still theft and a crime. If anything mere possession of the title counts for something, and is why young drivers are taught to never store your title in the glove box, ie too easy to grab and sign. But if someone is going to forge a title signature, creating an entire bill of sale is not a bridge too far.....
walterjay is providing good advice. Making up your own receipt and taking it to the Florida DMV would constitute fraud and subject the OP to prosecution. Remember, this transaction has been reported to the local police as a theft by the salesman who allegedly absconded with the cash. As such, a thorough investigation will ensue that will bring into question any manufactured "bill of sale".
A couple decades ago Four Wheeler did a little editorial called "The Fishbowl Theory." Granted, this was in SoCal which is notoriously horrible (I picture Marge's sisters in The Simpsons) but it was about difficulties registering a vehicle.
They found that by getting in line three different times they were told they needed different things (supporting documents, fees, etc) by each clerk. The final time the clerk just allowed them to register right then and there.
It's always stuck with me because I've even been able to do this in CO, although with a smaller office I come back the next day (and hope for a different clerk).
This is a good strategy to try with no risk. Go to a different FLHSMV branch office and try to get the title transferred without mentioning the bill of sale. You might luck out and get it past the clerk since nothing on the website says a bill of sale is required. I'd even try the original location again several days later with the hope of getting a different clerk.
Who signed the title over? Travis? A manager? If someone other than Travis signed it it’s really odd they wouldnt have record of sale unless its a real Mickey Mouse operation.
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What the person did is a crime. I think you have a civil case against the dealership. Is the car $2300 in total? If so maybe small claims will do. I would say they take the car back, and you get $400,000 for what you’ve been put through!
Edit I too got taken by a used car salesman. I didn’t do a pre purchase and turns out the brakes pulsated and the driver door actuator didn’t work. This was a new car dealer so even though the salesman never returned my calls the service dept fixed the issues for free with OE parts. I wasn’t in a very good position as they didn’t have to do anything.
Edit I too got taken by a used car salesman. I didn’t do a pre purchase and turns out the brakes pulsated and the driver door actuator didn’t work. This was a new car dealer so even though the salesman never returned my calls the service dept fixed the issues for free with OE parts. I wasn’t in a very good position as they didn’t have to do anything.
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I’ve been considering buying a car off a used car lot in Nashville. This thread makes me wonder how much of a hassle it would be if something went wrong on an out of state purchase. I can only imagine how much of a hassle it would be if the dealer goofed up the paperwork.
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The thing that surprised me (I don’t buy many cars) is the new Buick GMC in NY, collected sales tax and obtained plates for PA, while selling me a used car. The used car guy even started charging Phila tax which is higher, based on his web search of the sales tax. They even overcharged using estimated fees, AND refunded the overage along with a PA plate. All on the up and up. As far as I know one pretty much uses a broker to get plates in PA so there is some fee. In NYS we went to DMV directly.
It would seem to me like that new car dealers would have “better?” Used cars that were not wholesaled, and best chance of fixing errors made by employees. Sure higher prices. I think the key is they are flipping cars that didn’t need to be sent to auction and also making a large profit. Cars usually have a minimal warranty. Whereas a used car dealer bought those 2nd tier cars at auction and they can go as-is.
This same thing happened to me in Tulsa many years ago. I went to the prosecuting attorney, told him my story, and listened while he called the used car dealer and explained to him that he was facing jail time. He put me on the phone and the dealer told me to return the car and he would give me my money back. I got my money back and learned a lesson.
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Going way back I put a $5,000 deposit (stupid) on a Toyota MR2. I changed my mind and paperwork said non refundable. These clowns at Toyota all laughed and said you just lost $5k. Since I lived in Albany I went to consumer affairs and some law intern called the dealer and told me I could go pick up a check the next day after noon.
Same exact circumstances?
This seems risky. The lawyer did mention small claims court would be adequate in the case that the dealership does not resolve my proof of purchase issue. I may go there if the issue is not resolved, but only if they refuse to help me.
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How’s you back? Any lower back pain, dizziness, nightmares? j/k
If they refunded the money and you give back the car, that would seem reasonable. Because you can’t register it. But imagine if the dealers records are so bad they have no record of the car? It’s not your fault an employee stole the money…
Just go to a different DMV branch and try again. Generic bill of sale forms online. Not saying what to do with one to avoid a vacation.
