Plan to change oil and not the oil filter?

[skyship]

My V40 1.9D produced excellent UOA results after 10,000 km and the Blackstones chap said the oil filter should be good for the 20,000 km service interval.

The insolubles were at 0.4 when the stated limit is 0.8 and I changed oil and filter, BUT next service with the same LM 5/40 Synthoil, I am thinking of saving money by not changing the Volvo oil filter and just changing the oil only. I will
then do another UOA after the final full service at 20,000 km.

This type of cheaper oil change procedure is used for older marine diesels that suffer from fuel contamination etc and I have used it to good effect before by doubling the number of oil changes and only using the recommended change interval for the filter.

My diesel is in very good condition(Touch wood)and I am changing the oil more often as the TBN fell from 9.6 to 4.7 over the 10,000 km and due to the horrific amount of stop-start driving I have to do, I want to stick to a half of natural virgin oil only figure and not play with additives at present until my UOA confirms my service schedule is good. In the longer term I plan to try Indian medicine (LM top up oil additives) at 10,000 km, but that will be a test for next year.

I do think the lower TBN figure of 1.0 published by Blackstones is pushing the green envelope and will stick with the half figure.

Anyone got an informed opinion about that less frequent oil filter changed idea?

It costs me 80 Euros to get the oil only changed and 120 to get the oil and filter changed, so I will save 20 Euros every oil change, which is more than the cost of a full UOA!

I would like to try a high performance extended life oil filter, BUT Volvo did not export the 115hp 1.9D to the USA and I have tried every site to no effect, so will have to wait for Mr Bosche to sell them in the EU next year.

 

[boosted]

Filters are cheap so change it.

 

[LeakySeals]

Agree with Boosted. But depending on the filter used, you could. What kind is it?

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: boosted
Filters are cheap so change it.


Not a fan of this logic. Based on the OP, filters are NOT cheap.

I run filters in my finace's Civic for the recommended two intervals (~14-15K miles.) I would do the same I'm your case, so long as the filter is rated for the interval.

 

[toneydoc]

If you are happy with the UOA results at 10000 km and plan to do more km between changes, I would not extend the interval past 15000 km in my car. I would change the oil and the filter at that point and just forget the oil analysis. I would call that green myself. And by stopping the analysis, I could pay for a new filter and feel good about the oil and filter change.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: skyship
I would like to try a high performance extended life oil filter, BUT Volvo did not export the 115hp 1.9D to the USA and I have tried every site to no effect, so will have to wait for Mr Bosche to sell them in the EU next year.

As I replied in your other thread, according to Mann catalog, their W 920/38 filter should fit your engine and if I'm not mistaken it is rated for 30k km.

 

[Malo83]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: boosted
Filters are cheap so change it.


Not a fan of this logic. Based on the OP, filters are NOT cheap.

I run filters in my finace's Civic for the recommended two intervals (~14-15K miles.) I would do the same I'm your case, so long as the filter is rated for the interval.

Surely you jest!!!
Spend thousands on a car and yet cheap out on an oil filter for a few bucks!

 

[rrounds]

I run 15k miles on my oil filter(7.5k miles on the oil) and my uoa on the second oil change looks better than the first oil change. I do run a oversize oil filter(over twice as large as the stock filter) on my S2000. No need to waste money and toss a good filter just like there's no need to waste money and change your oil every 3k miles or less.

ROD

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Agree with Boosted. But depending on the filter used, you could. What kind is it?


I use genuine Volvo filters made in Germany and they cost about 20 dollars each. I have my car serviced by a garage and they charge me for nearly an hours labor as the bottom engine covers have to be removed to change the filter, but the sump can be drained without removing the covers, so not changing the filter does save time and money.
The filter is approved for the 20,000 km service interval which is the maximum I will leave it in place, assuming the UOA shows it's still working.

 

[skyship]

Thanks and I have used Mann filters before as they are regarded as being nearly as good as a Volvo one, but switched to real Volvo ones after flushing out the engine etc.
Is the number you quote a long life or high performance filter, as I did not know Mann made one?

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: skyship
I would like to try a high performance extended life oil filter, BUT Volvo did not export the 115hp 1.9D to the USA and I have tried every site to no effect, so will have to wait for Mr Bosche to sell them in the EU next year.

As I replied in your other thread, according to Mann catalog, their W 920/38 filter should fit your engine and if I'm not mistaken it is rated for 30k km.

 

[Jim Allen]

People seem to forget that oil filter efficiency improves with use, so by the end of that second interval, that filter will be very efficient and more fully used up.

As long as the filter does not plug... and that isn't likely as long as there is enough filter area (hesitate if it's a tiny filter) or with an engine that isn't making a bunch of junk (i.e. a tired engine with worn rings that will drop a bunch of carbon and combustion byproducts into the oil). The caveats I see are a) use a quality filter so the moving parts (ADBV & Bypass) don't fail in service, b) don't do it with a short hopper that may be generating sludge, c) be soemwhat reasonable on the interval (no double 10K runs, for example). Several manufacturers do it so it's accepted practice.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Is the number you quote a long life or high performance filter, as I did not know Mann made one?

I don't know. It doesn't say...

http://www.mister-auto.ie/en/oil-filter/mann-filter-w-920-38_g7_a004W!920~38.html

 

[skyship]

OK, I looked up the filters on the Mann EU site and that number is for their standard oil filter, which is not quite as good as the Volvo one.
When a company signs a contract to produce equipment for Volvo they have to agree not to sell the same equipment or filter under their own label, so there is in fact no real equivalent to a Volvo filter in performance terms.
BUT the new extended range or long life filters may be better (I am only interested in the filtration efficiency at present), but I just can't ID an equivalent at present.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Malo83
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: boosted
Filters are cheap so change it.


Not a fan of this logic. Based on the OP, filters are NOT cheap.

I run filters in my finace's Civic for the recommended two intervals (~14-15K miles.) I would do the same I'm your case, so long as the filter is rated for the interval.

Surely you jest!!!
Spend thousands on a car and yet cheap out on an oil filter for a few bucks!

Which part about using a resource to within its capability is confusing or funny?

OCI's are all over the place on this forum, so, by your logic, I should be changing her filter 4X more often based on some people's OCI. I have no doubt in my mind that this Fram Xtended Guard filter can last 14k miles in a Civic of all cars, driven by some one who drives like a gramma.

I might as well change her oil every 2kmi; her coolant every 15k miles, her tranny fluid every oil change, and etc. Why "waste" a few bucks, when spending a combined hundreds more every 10k miles on these individually piddly little things will cumulatively give me that sweet, sweet peace of mind, right?

 

[steve20]

depends how long you want the engine in the vehicle to last. If you want to keep it for years to come, I wouldn't cut corners on the filter interval.

 

[skyship]

Good to hear from a chap doing the same type of oil only change as I was thinking of doing. The Volvo filter is rated to 30,000 km max as a filter (Same as the Mann specs), but the engine specs list 20,000 km for oil and filter changes as the limit, so to bin the filter every 10,000 km when it would be only a third full is silly.

I was very interested that you confirmed that your second UOA is better than your first, because many types of air and oil filters do a better job when moderately dirty. Obviously they go down hill fast when they get full, but I am going to be no where near that figure.

I would really like to read your UOA figures for that oil only procedure if you have time to post them here. All I am curious about is the insolubles, viscosity, Iron and TBN before and after if you got one done, BUT the main thing I would like to know was if your second insolubles figure was better than the first. It would also be good to know which type of filter you used.

My long term target IF I can find an extended life oil filter, is to do a main service (New oil & oil filter, new air filter and new fuel filter) every 30,000 km, with a simple cheap oil only change at 15,000 km. To keep the TBN figure nice and high I would add a small amount of LM synthetic additives (Motor protect)every 7,500 km insted of an engine oil top up. That procedure would fit in with my fuel filter change interval, as I have been using 20,000 km BUT when I inspected the last filter it was very clean and would definitely be good for 30,000 km.

I will still be doing a UOA every main service as I enjoy reading the results and it is an insurance policy to some extent. I will also need to see a few TBN figures to confirm how much top up additives are required to keep to the half of new figure. No point wasting a full can if only half a can gives the right result.

If you are thinking of copying this idea always DYOR, because adding oil additives is a dodgy game and I have confirmed with Liqui Moly what I am planning to do. The Motor Protect was designed for fully synthetic oils and I am only using LM oil, so there is no danger of it reacting with the original additives pack.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Good to hear from a chap doing the same type of oil only change as I was thinking of doing. The Volvo filter is rated to 30,000 km max as a filter (Same as the Mann specs), but the engine specs list 20,000 km for oil and filter changes as the limit, so to bin the filter every 10,000 km when it would be only a third full is silly.

I was very interested that you confirmed that your second UOA is better than your first, because many types of air and oil filters do a better job when moderately dirty. Obviously they go down hill fast when they get full, but I am going to be no where near that figure.

I would really like to read your UOA figures for that oil only procedure if you have time to post them here. All I am curious about is the insolubles, viscosity, Iron and TBN before and after if you got one done, BUT the main thing I would like to know was if your second insolubles figure was better than the first. It would also be good to know which type of filter you used.

My long term target IF I can find an extended life oil filter, is to do a main service (New oil & oil filter, new air filter and new fuel filter) every 30,000 km, with a simple cheap oil only change at 15,000 km. To keep the TBN figure nice and high I would add a small amount of LM synthetic additives (Motor protect)every 7,500 km insted of an engine oil top up. That procedure would fit in with my fuel filter change interval, as I have been using 20,000 km BUT when I inspected the last filter it was very clean and would definitely be good for 30,000 km.

I will still be doing a UOA every main service as I enjoy reading the results and it is an insurance policy to some extent. I will also need to see a few TBN figures to confirm how much top up additives are required to keep to the half of new figure. No point wasting a full can if only half a can gives the right result.

If you are thinking of copying this idea always DYOR, because adding oil additives is a dodgy game and I have confirmed with Liqui Moly what I am planning to do. The Motor Protect was designed for fully synthetic oils and I am only using LM oil, so there is no danger of it reacting with the original additives pack.


My opinion is that you would be better served by spending the money you would have used to purchase the Lubro Moly additive on a better oil to begin with.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool


Which part about using a resource to within its capability is confusing or funny?

OCI's are all over the place on this forum, so, by your logic, I should be changing her filter 4X more often based on some people's OCI. I have no doubt in my mind that this Fram Xtended Guard filter can last 14k miles in a Civic of all cars, driven by some one who drives like a gramma.

I might as well change her oil every 2kmi; her coolant every 15k miles, her tranny fluid every oil change, and etc. Why "waste" a few bucks, when spending a combined hundreds more every 10k miles on these individually piddly little things will cumulatively give me that sweet, sweet peace of mind, right?





Oh, how utterly apt! Well said!

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: steve20
depends how long you want the engine in the vehicle to last. If you want to keep it for years to come, I wouldn't cut corners on the filter interval.


I think you will find if you read some of the posts before that confirm what I already knew, that a moderatly dirty oil filter does a better job than a clean one, that I am not cutting any corners.

The Blackstones UOA comments stated very clearly that the analysis of the oil at 10,000 km did indicate the oil filter would be good for 20,000 km which is the recommended service interval.

Some of the new Hondas have an alternate oil only service interval and it has been common practice on small marine diesels for some time.

 

[skyship]

I doubt very much that changing to another oil type would make any difference, as I am already using Liqui Moly's most expensive oil, the fully synthetic (Group 4) Synthoil High Tech 5/40. (For some reason I can't quite figure out, 0/40 is not approved of by Volvo for my engine type)
I have been asking LM for their opinion and apart from saying that their Diesel Synthoil 5/40 that I will switch to next time, is only made for export (I can get it through a special order), they suggested using Ceretec every oil filter change, but I am still thinking about that advice.
The only other two oil companies I have respect for are Castrol and BP (Super Visco 5000 is good). The BP oil is not available in Germany and Castrol Edge is 50% more expensive than LM Synthoil. The Germans do UOA and the results I have looked at showed there was no real difference between the two brands, which might partly account for the fact that LM is now the most popular oil company in Germany.
The Germans drive their cars at much higher speeds than the Americans and their cars have long oil change intervals, so you will find their companies make good oil.