One of the most intersting bike ever built

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Mik
it would be funny were it not for the fact that these noise makers are beginning to really harm motorcycling in a society that is ever-increasingly obsessed with quietness, right to quality of life and curbing noise pollution (which is EXACTLY what it is) .... if they only ruined it for themselves I truly couldn't care less, but when it causes bikes to be banned from an increasingly number of neighborhoods, towns and other public areas for those who ride in a repectful manner, it pi**es me off (and obviously, many others too).......


Maybe aim some of that anger at the government officials responsible for banning bikes from those areas in your country. Sounds like common sense sure went out the window with the creation of them. While I do not like overly loud pipes and prefer just ones with a pleasant grunty exhaust note, I do not disparage those that do own bikes with loud exhausts because I believe in both freedom of expression and the pursuit of happiness. I say live and let live. Ride what you want and enjoy it. There have been loud Harleys and other bikes forever.

 

[Mik]

I understand your point, but local governments are simply reacting to public pressure (ie. annoyance at inconsiderate people making excessive noise, call it what it is). I too love the sound of engines, but as with most things in life, there are times and places for things (such as loud engines noises) and, it follows, there is such a thing as too much (namely excessive noise in a residential areas when people are trying to sleep). A bit of common courtesy (common sense?) would do wonders, though this trait is, based on my experience and observations, either beyond their ability to comprehend or trounced by their self-serving desire to be noticed.....

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how long these same individuals would tolerate someone blowing off an airhorn (or some other excessively loud sound source) in proximity of their homes on a regular basis and at odd hours..... somehow, I sense they would have a totally different take on the matter.....

I am all for live and let live, so long as you remember we live in a society that is built on respect for one another, somethign these folks clearly don't "get"....

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: Mik

Case in point.... does anyone really think this is an effecient and effective riding position from which to undertake an evasive manoeuver? Notice the small single front disc? This on a bike that likely weighs in the neighbourhood of 600+ lbs? Assuming the chap even knows how to use it (which is often NOT the case with this crowd; don't beleive me, ask rider training instructors.... I have!) he is still an accidnet looking for a place to happen. Oh, but wait, he'll be ok, he is running open pipes.........


Those ape hanger handle bars remind me of my cousins Honda 360 that I took my motorcycle test with back in the 70's. He had replaced the original bars with ape hangers and had them mounted so the handles were back and low, not high like that picture. They were so low that I had to be sure to lower my upper legs by swinging the legs outward, or my upper leg would of been caught between the tank and the bars. After I successfully completed the course the examiner walked over to my cousin who had drove both of us to the test, and said to him, "well he passed, though with those handlebars I don't know how he managed it".

 

[JetStar]

I can certainly appreciate a nice sounding bike regardless of make, as long as it is not painfully loud. All of my bikes have modded exhausts, and my Warrior would probably be considered too loud, but I can control it with the right grip. I try not to be disrespectfull to others.
I can also understand how a bike that can be heard could prevent somebody from coming over in your lane. Unfortunately a loud exhaust will likely not prevent somebody from pulling out in front of you, or turning left in front of you, or hitting you from behind. This is where visibility could help, I don't know.
I know the wheelie popping squid have driven insurance rates through the roof on sportbikes, for which we all pay. The military lost so many kids to bike accidents, they had to start training programs and create regulations. The non-helmeted cruiser guys have done the same with head injuries. These are all choices that people make, and they have consequences.
Over the years I have met some great people on bikes both domestic and metric. There have been idoits too on both domestic and metric. The idiot part seems to get worse when they form up into packs.
I try hard not to judge people by what they ride, although it is getting harder as I get older. Some Harley owners would tell me that as a non-harley owner, that is the only position I can take. I have not purchased the right to judge. Like it or not, that is the image that is being sold, and there are plenty of takers. Sorry I'd rather be riding than standing around like I'm is some kind of a Marlin Brando movie or something. By the way, most of the bikes in that movie were british, because they were the fastest here today gone tomorrow tech of that era.
Some of the sportbike guys are just as bad, you are not in stunt show or a moto GP race, go to the track. Although I envy their riding skils, that stuff on the street is not the best way to live long.
Geez what started as a simple reply has turned into a ramble and I have spent more time than the subject is worth. Whatever you ride be safe, I don't want to see you on the news as the latest accident.

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: Mik
unbelievable....... you heard it here folks, no need for rider training or staying alert, for ensuring your bike is in good mechanical order or properly equipped to circulate on public roads, everyone's ticket to safety is open pipes!!!! Open pipes provide you with an invisible shield that makes you impervious to all sources of harm or danger (except, of course, deaf drivers or those playing loud music, for they are somehow not subject to this magical shield)......

This would explain why NHTSA is apparently looking at mandating open exhausts for all vehicles... brilliant I tell you, simply brilliant.......

I hope you have a big yard, cause it'll soon be the only place you'll be able to ride that open-piped Milwaukee wonder... mind you, you should be safe there.......

now, how about that Honda six everyone?
Unbelievable people think just because you take a class, your that much better a rider, or that bad things won't happen. I guess bright flashing headlights and a loud colored jacket, and even a full faced helmet can't save you sometimes.,,http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/safety-advocate-larry-grodsky-rip/

 

[Mik]

no worries mate... keep it up... soon we'll all show up at your place (trailering, of course) to ride up and down your driveway, as it will the only place left to ride....... think of how safe we'll all be then.........

shame on me for thinking it was possible to have an intelligent exchange with someone whose mindset has no place for the effect of their actions on others...... Heaven help us all......

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Mik
Here is a prime example of "Metric bike" as you so love to call them, that is well set-up (ergonomically speaking), has two front rotors (revolutionary, I know), with a rider dressed in items other than slippers and a shorts (we tend to refer to it as proper riding attire).

Now, you will likely say taht he will die from the heat,.... but he can quickly swap for mesh jacket and he'll be good to go...... note that said "Metric" bike has low-end torque that will put any cruiser to shame, and is all-day comfortable.... truth may be hard to take, but try it

Oh, and that thing on his head is called a helmet.... quite a bit more effective than nothing or even the thickest bandana....

Out of respect for the OP, this thread jack is now over.... sorry for the tangent....
In my neck of the woods the "Howley" boys won't even acknowledge anyone wearing a helmet. I'm right impressed with old goats riding bikes with Porta Johns on the back, dirty grey pony tails streaming in the wind. We know what kind of women THAT interests.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I'd rather hear what a Harley sounds like.,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFMdeXujgHw


A well built Harley engine is a wonderful thing to listen to. Eric Buell had some air-cooled XBRR race engines that were simply a treat to listen to. 4 inch bore and 3.11 inch stroke (exactly backwards from typical Harley long stroke engines)

I heard one at Daytona practice during race week. WOW!

But, I have to say that I prefer more modern engines to a generic Harley.
NOw that they use Japanese injection systems apparently they finally idle. DO they still overheat in traffic?

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: Mik
ironically, though it came out in 1966 (47 years ago for those who are numerically challenged), the little Honda six is more technologically advanced than a brand new Hog......... Yes, we don't all like potatoes.... though I must confess to enjoy eating them......
Too bad out of the thousands of advanced Hondas that were ever made, only a few actually have someone that remembers them. Why doesn't all that technology stand the test of time? The japanese bikes have to keep getting reinvented and marketed as the next new thing. Harley's may be perceived as "tractors", but tractors last a long time. Like they say if it ain't broke and still outsells the rest, don't fix it.,,,
Whatever that means.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: Mik




and one last thing: could you please tell your Harley cohorts to keep mufflers on their tractors, the numbers of riding areas being closed off to motorcycles due to their antics is annoying to those of use who actually respect our fellow citizens by keeping our bikes muffled......
Most people that make their bikes louder, usually do so to be more noticeable to drivers who are in their own world on the phone or texting.I haven't met a rider that hasn't been cut off by a car or truck, at least once. Talking about causing restrictions, how about the zoom-splats that ride at more then twice the highest posted speed in the country? Is there really a reason to own and ride a bike that fast on the street? Doing wheelies on the road right next to your car? Thank them for your high insurance rates. Do you think its only Harley's getting laws passed?.Guys that buy dirt bikes, and quads that don't have a legal place to ride them get tougher laws passed. It's too bad the rest of the motoring public doesn't always respect a motorcyclist right to exist, so I'll be rude and let them know where I am via some tractor noise.,,,
There's a justification for nothing if I ever heard one. Why don't more "Howley" hearders
wear helmets, does the NOISE protect them from their OWN mistakes?

 

[Mik]

It's kind of funny how they still play up the whole Made in USA card when most of the bike is bult in "Metric" countries.... ah, the power of marketing..... mind you, this thread has clearly shown how committed are the "converted"..... seems they all turn towards Milwaukee five times a day for prayer........

 

[Robenstein]

I will never understand the hate people have for other brands. We live in a capitalistic free market. There are so many types and brands because there is a diverse demand for products. Why some HD owners can't appreciate a sportbike, and why some "metric" fans cannot appreciate a HD is beyond me. From more traditional to state of the art, all bikes are cool to me. But I refuse to take a side on car brands as well. I love Fords, GM's, and Dodges, as well as some other brands products.

The only beef I have with HD is the fact they keep going on about it being the "american" brand when its just under half in parts count and is merely assembled in the USA. But that is all marketing, and HD is the champ of marketing at the moment. Like all machines, they are not perfect(I dont care for elements of the twin cam engine), but all bikes have weaknesses.

As far as the owners being loud...I live in a town where there are plenty of liter metric bikes running around being more dangerous and almost as loud as any V twin riders. There are some country boys with trucks that give them a run for the money in noise too, but its a free country and I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[whip]

I'm a former MSF instructor. I've owned Harleys, and Japanese bikes. To those that justify loud pipes as a safety device, I have one question. I see numerous guys riding stock Goldwings and BMWs. They ride them non stop, and for the most part are accident free. How is that possible?
For those that don't think training is valuable, I assume you've never taken any classes on riding? Maybe next summer, they could open their mind, and take a course, any course, and then revisit this issue.

One other thing about loud bikes. If motorcyclist don't govern ourselves, some one else will. Do you really want to government deciding whats best for your bike?

 

[HerrStig]

The number of big city police departments now using a certain German bike for police work is growing. Do the motorcycle cops like loud pipes?

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The number of big city police departments now using a certain German bike for police work is growing. Do the motorcycle cops like loud pipes?


No because they can sneak up on you since you wont notice them. lol

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Mik
it would be funny were it not for the fact that these noise makers are beginning to really harm motorcycling in a society that is ever-increasingly obsessed with quietness, right to quality of life and curbing noise pollution (which is EXACTLY what it is) .... if they only ruined it for themselves I truly couldn't care less, but when it causes bikes to be banned from an increasingly number of neighborhoods, towns and other public areas for those who ride in a repectful manner, it pi**es me off (and obviously, many others too).......


Maybe aim some of that anger at the government officials responsible for banning bikes from those areas in your country. Sounds like common sense sure went out the window with the creation of them. While I do not like overly loud pipes and prefer just ones with a pleasant grunty exhaust note, I do not disparage those that do own bikes with loud exhausts because I believe in both freedom of expression and the pursuit of happiness. I say live and let live. Ride what you want and enjoy it. There have been loud Harleys and other bikes forever.


Your freedom of expression ends where the damage to my ear drums begins. Sorry, if I want to intentionally damage my hearing I'll go watch the top fuel cars run or go to a Metallica concert. Being subjected to BLAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT- BUH-GWAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH on a one way friggin' street with a 50Km/h limit with buildings on either side with the noise to bounce off of isn't one of my chosen methods of hearing impairment, that's why there are noise pollution laws in existence because apparently people aren't considerate enough to self-govern their noise output.

I used to be a regular rider (before getting into Mustangs) and it never once crossed my mind that I should just abandon my driving skills and awareness and instead just slap straight pipes on my gixxer because being an obnoxious self-absorbed jacka$$ was somehow a better method of self preservation.

It is quite possible to have a louder-than-stock good sounding bike that doesn't deafen everybody within a 500ft radius yet still manages to satisfy the desire to experience the sweet sound of your favourite engine note. There are a wide variety of aftermarket exhaust manufacturers who provide just that!

When I see a guy on a big V-twin with straight pipes barking the [censored] out of the beast on a completely empty residential street, rattling the windows in my house, the first thought to cross my mind isn't "well, he needs to make all the noise he can so that he can be safe and doesn't get run over" because about the only thing he's at risk of being hit by is the Flying Dutchman or some other invisible ghost ship that might smite down his very existence if he doesn't rev the tar out of his noisemaker to ward off those demons.

Sorry, this "gotta be loud to stay alive" is the biggest strawman/crutch combo I've ever heard. And it is ruining the sport. Not because lawmakers are "evil and violating our freedoms", because nobody wants to hear the sound of a 1952 Massey Ferguson with a megaphone on its stack being piped into our eardrums. People don't like it, even other riders don't like it! That's why these laws are being passed. Because nobody deserves to be subjected to this auditory beat-down whenever they are in the presence of a motorcycle.

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The number of big city police departments now using a certain German bike for police work is growing. Do the motorcycle cops like loud pipes?
They will try anything once. When they find out that German bikes don't hold up as well as the outdated Harley's DO, and how expensive it is to fix the German bikes, they change back to Harley. There's a dept by me that had 2 BMW's given to them, they hardly used them, they mostly sit and rot.Sorry they are not the right tool for the job. And as far as loud exhaust goes, all you non-believers really need to get out more often.,, http://bikerlawblog.com/2008/10/15/oakla...117126464843750

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The number of big city police departments now using a certain German bike for police work is growing. Do the motorcycle cops like loud pipes?
They will try anything once. When they find out that German bikes don't hold up as well as the outdated Harley's DO, and how expensive it is to fix the German bikes, they change back to Harley. There's a dept by me that had 2 BMW's given to them, they hardly used them, they mostly sit and rot.Sorry they are not the right tool for the job. And as far as loud exhaust goes, all you non-believers really need to get out more often.,, http://bikerlawblog.com/2008/10/15/oakla...117126464843750


That article has the word "muffler" in it. As I've noted, and other have noted ad nauseum, there is a big difference between tastefully making your bike louder and putting on straight pipes that make you an obnoxious attention [censored].

However:

Quote:
“There’s an old motorcycle adage that you are heard before you are seen,” said Deputy Chief Dave Kozicki, explaining the department’s decision to toss the bikes’ muted factory-issued mufflers in favor of the more high-volume pipes.

Kozicki cited an accident three months ago in which an Oakland officer riding a toned-down cycle was struck by a motorist who said he hadn’t heard the officer approaching.
But some City Hall insiders, as well as motorcycle cops elsewhere, said the safety argument is a stretch.

Even the folks at the national Motorcycle Industry Council, which represents all the big bike manufacturers, were unaware of any safety benefits from louder mufflers.

“We encourage all motorcycle riders to keep the original low sound levels that meet the … federal sound limit of 80 decibels,” said industry spokesman Mike Mount. “It would seem counterintuitive that a law enforcement agency would go against federal standards.”
Ironically, it was just a short time back that Oakland police were called upon to crack down on noisy motorists who had modified their auto mufflers to make a whistling screech. The “whistle tip” pipes were eventually outlawed under state law.

Oakland’s cops had a long tradition of riding their Harley-Davidsons with the modified, louder tail pipes, earning them the nickname “Rolling Thunder.” But after an officer complained about a loss of hearing and others around town questioned whether the police force was violating the very noise standards it was supposed to enforce, the department brass ordered a switch to the quieter stock mufflers.

According to Kozicki, the decibel drop sparked a chorus of complaints from other officers, who said they felt less safe.

So last year the department launched a $1,200 study in conjunction with the city’s risk management division to determine whether A) the louder motorcycles contributed to officers’ safety, B) were detrimental to their hearing, and C) complied with noise standards.

Kozicki acknowledged that whatever safety-related findings the study produced were largely anecdotal. Still, after everything was taken into consideration, the department concluded “it was in the best interest of the officers to put more-audible pipes back on,” Kozicki said.

Oakland officials acknowledge that the noisy pipes, when tested, averaged 93 decibels – well above the federal legal noise limit, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council.
But city Finance Director Bill Nolan, who oversees the risk management division, isn’t alarmed.

“If they were riding eight straight hours, it would be a problem,” he said. “But they aren’t.”



Straight pipes are ~125dB. So even these "loud" police bikes, for which the justification of the fitment of aftermarket exhausts sounds to be completely anecdotal and desire-driven, are MUCH quieter at 93 decibels than your straight-pipe special that we are taking issue with here.

 

[Mik]

Originally Posted By: whip
I'm a former MSF instructor. I've owned Harleys, and Japanese bikes. To those that justify loud pipes as a safety device, I have one question. I see numerous guys riding stock Goldwings and BMWs. They ride them non stop, and for the most part are accident free. How is that possible?
For those that don't think training is valuable, I assume you've never taken any classes on riding? Maybe next summer, they could open their mind, and take a course, any course, and then revisit this issue.

One other thing about loud bikes. If motorcyclist don't govern ourselves, some one else will. Do you really want to government deciding whats best for your bike?


Hey, keep the facts out of this, ok? lol

Something just occurred to me... First of all, I simply don't buy this whole "I run open pipes for safety's sake", I have simply seen too many things over the years that fly in the face of it (ie. revving up at stoplights, in quite neighborhoods,....).. However, assuming it is true to a very small minority of the "open-pipers", if you truly are that deathly afraid and traumatized while riding, it may be time to look for another hobby, like lawn bowling or hiking, for example. Everyone would win, your fear level goes down, and you don't ruin a great activity for the rest of us.....

 

[Mik]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The number of big city police departments now using a certain German bike for police work is growing. Do the motorcycle cops like loud pipes?
They will try anything once. When they find out that German bikes don't hold up as well as the outdated Harley's DO, and how expensive it is to fix the German bikes, they change back to Harley. There's a dept by me that had 2 BMW's given to them, they hardly used them, they mostly sit and rot.Sorry they are not the right tool for the job. And as far as loud exhaust goes, all you non-believers really need to get out more often.,, http://bikerlawblog.com/2008/10/15/oakla...117126464843750


Just curious, how many miles a year you ride? Seeing as how you seem to imply that we are all just casual enthusiasts. I know for a fact I ride way more than 98% of "Milwaukee's best" enthusiasts, most of whom are content to head to the local coffee joint once a week to talk chrome or how their chiropractor helped cure their ailing tailbone from siting on their ill handling mobile paint mixer....