If anyone has interest in older foreign cars, I came across this condensed video of a guy putting together a Citroen engine. Why don't American cars have replaceable cylinder sleeves like that? Seems like rebuilding would be simpler.
Old Citroen truck engine rebuild
- Thread starter atikovi
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A lot of your industrial engines do have removeable sleeves. So, in theory, your engine block could last forever because you replace a sleeve instead of boring to a larger size piston. There CAN be problems with sleeves. First, they are more expensive to manufacture than an integrated-sleeve engine block. Second, if you have a dry sleeve (where the coolant does NOT touch the sleeve), heat transfer (or lack of) can be a problem. Doesn't happen too often, but it can. If you have a wet sleeve (where the coolant touches the sleeve), you need o-rings to keep the coolant out of the engine oil. I don't need to tell you what happens if the o-rings fail. You also need to worry about the sleeve protrusion on the top of the block.
With today's good oil, you normally don't have to worry about wearing out a modern block. Using an engine that has permanent sleeves gives you far less to worry about.
With today's good oil, you normally don't have to worry about wearing out a modern block. Using an engine that has permanent sleeves gives you far less to worry about.
The Cadillac HT4100, 4500, & 4900 engines had wet sleeves & it was an absolute disaster when the HT4100 first came out. The GM Atlas engines have replaceable sleeves as well.
IIRC, there are some Land Rover engines that have wet sleeves. Again, not the most durable or reliable engines.
Weren't the Rover V8's liners/sleeves pressed in, And the Buick 215 they were based on had "Cast-In" liners/sleeves?
The Standard Vanguard engine had wet liners - American viewers will know this engine in Massey Ferguson and Triumph TR's. The Hino Contessa had wet liners too.
The Mitsubishi 4D55 had dry liners. First time I pulled one apart in a 4x4 Delica with the engine on TDC, 1 & 4 up, I noticed there was a 2mm step at the top...unusual I thought. Turning it over a turn, #3 had a 10mm step, #2 was down 5mm. They had liner creep when overheated...we had stepped liners fitted. The 4D56 had no liners, so guess they learned something there.
The Mitsubishi 4D55 had dry liners. First time I pulled one apart in a 4x4 Delica with the engine on TDC, 1 & 4 up, I noticed there was a 2mm step at the top...unusual I thought. Turning it over a turn, #3 had a 10mm step, #2 was down 5mm. They had liner creep when overheated...we had stepped liners fitted. The 4D56 had no liners, so guess they learned something there.
I ran across that channel this week and I watched the ~25 minute summary of the engine build and then the first and second start up videos.
Regarding why, some of the reasons have already been provided. Today we build aluminium engines with sleeves cast into the aluminium block. If it gets worn out, we recycle the materials and cast a new block.
The engine he built produces about 50hp out of 2L. We have 200+ HP 2L engines today.
I think I'll go with what we are building today for day to day driving.
Still, a cool project. But technology has moved on. Today we dispose of the engine block, recycle the metals and build a new one.
yes they’re dry press fit to get around the block scrappage problem. there’s o-ringed sleeves to allow a cylinder with a hole in it to work normally
The removable cylinder liners came with problems, mostly gasket failures and coolant leaking into the combustion chambers. Added complexity resulted in inferior reliability. Rebuilds had to be done fairly frequently. Citroën has made some of the coolest car with very advanced technology for their time.
I had a Peugeot 403 and It had wet sleeves. Didn't have any problems but had less than 100k miles too. French make some weird cars. They ride very smooth though.
The other thing to ensure longevity in the motor, is NOT to go for extended OCIs, I know that I'm speaking heresy here
but it's true!I had a 505 THE most comfortable car I ever had, better than my current Lexus!
Yes and they were prone to slipping. The early SD1 3.5 was the best of them they stayed pretty tight.
I remember the HT4100, they were a huge turd and literally ruined (together with FWD) possibly one of the nicest GM bodies built at that time, the Allante.
IIRC wasn't it a block twisting thing going on causing coolant loss with the 4100? I remember seeing one the crank wouldn't spin once the mains were torqued.
I did a head gasket on a Peugeot 104 that also had wet liners, what a strange engine that was laying on its side in the engine bay. Still it was a nice well build little car compared to its competition of the time like the Ami.
slipping is usually a 3.9 and up problem because of the thin walls from a bigger bore.
at the end they color coded blocks by the amount core shift. the last run from the 4.6 discovery is notoriously bad
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It was very early in my career when the 4100's were rolling through the service department.....We had a old grumpy guy that was really good with them. IIRC......The cylinder heads had to be torqued down before the main caps because the head bolts reached all the way down into the main webs & were actually a structural member of the block along with the cylinder heads themselves. The consensus at the time was poor cooling system maintenance causing the O-rings & liners to degrade & leak.
By the time I knew much about anything.....The Northstar was what we worked on 90% of the time. Though we had a few 4900's come through, The 4900 was a decently reliable engine albeit under powered.
Those 4.1L cad engines are my most hated. They blew head gaskets,ate cam gears as well as cam lobes. I grew up working on that garbage.
One time a manager promised a head job on one would be done on a saturday! Come saturday night and the engine was still in pieces. The customer became belligerant!
I ended up putting it back together the following Monday as the guy that took it apart on saturday was off.
Once together I found the flat cam. Car got towed after that. I am glad I do not see those any more.
One time a manager promised a head job on one would be done on a saturday! Come saturday night and the engine was still in pieces. The customer became belligerant!
I ended up putting it back together the following Monday as the guy that took it apart on saturday was off.
Once together I found the flat cam. Car got towed after that. I am glad I do not see those any more.
I started out working at a Cadillac dealership, And we rarely saw vehicles that were out of manufacturer warranty, So I didn't get to see all the issues that cropped up on higher mileage HT4100's.....By the time I started working at independent garages those engines were long gone, But....My Northstar experience paid & still pays dividends.
Mom had an '82 Coupe deVille: brown metallic with a Coffee leather interior and a brown vinyl opera roof. My Brother still has it (in FL where it's nice and flat: no mountain passes). The TOBACCOLAC has over 100K on the original engine and transmission. I can remember driving it from Dayton to Rochester in the 55mph Era with the cruise control set at 66mph and seeing a constant 33mpg displayed on the Fuel Efficiency Computer Screen.
It had a fuel gauge and a speedometer: everything else was in warning light mode. The HT4100 was an option that year on the rear-drive Coupe deVille. Almost everything associated with the powertrain was the same as the previous engines offered, the diesel and the various V8 models, including the V8-6-4: nothing powertrain-related on her car ever really broke. A steady diet of 10W-30 and a new filter every 3K: service the A/C every late Spring.
Hell, Mom didn't even drive it to church on Sunday in those days! She certainly had one of the "good 'uns"!
Cheers!
It had a fuel gauge and a speedometer: everything else was in warning light mode. The HT4100 was an option that year on the rear-drive Coupe deVille. Almost everything associated with the powertrain was the same as the previous engines offered, the diesel and the various V8 models, including the V8-6-4: nothing powertrain-related on her car ever really broke. A steady diet of 10W-30 and a new filter every 3K: service the A/C every late Spring.
Hell, Mom didn't even drive it to church on Sunday in those days! She certainly had one of the "good 'uns"!
Cheers!
