I don't know for API off the top of my head but it is certainly done for ACEA tests (CEC-L-39-T-96). Most oils meet some ACEA spec so most pass seal tests.
Oil Recommendation for Low tension ringed LT1
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The correct answer is, there's no required test under API for PCMOs. So that's 90% of the oils on the shelf at China Mart and Curly, Larry's & Moe's place. The reality is, the seal compatibilty tests are some of the easiest and least costly to perform, so it's probably the last test that will be skimped on by any oil formulator.
Further, the most likely group of people that use RedLine, tear apart their engines and drivelines more than any other group, short of the big manufacturers. If RedLine was incompatible with seals in any way, I'm sure RedLine would of gotten plenty of feedback by now.
haaaa. ChinaMart. Well year is my opinion, which isn't worth all that much. It's entirely possible that Redline's high ester content does react negatively with a "very small" minority of engine seals that are out there. I trust what JAG said 100%. I questioned this too when he brought it up a few years ago.
However, from talking to Dave and the guys at Maxima, they both conveyed to me that esters are no longer an issue with modern additives and seals. (I just sent Dave a msg and asked him how they test for engine seal compatibility)
Molekule ran a engine seal test with his ester based oils and found zero problems. I've also heard from people that engine seals actually last very long with Redline bc it keeps them pliable and fresh.
Redline is great to deal with. They will answer any question you throw at them. Roy also used to be chief chemist at Lubrizol and all these companies work closely with the additive suppliers so I really doubt these issues exist.
Kinda of drifting off topic here but Danny at Maxima said chemists that see cost as no barrier to overcome, will use esters for superior performance. You can find an ester (300+ esters exist??) that in almost every situation that will outperform any other base oil on the market. But, for automotive use, it's overkill and Maxima fully acknowledges this in their advertising.
However, from talking to Dave and the guys at Maxima, they both conveyed to me that esters are no longer an issue with modern additives and seals. (I just sent Dave a msg and asked him how they test for engine seal compatibility)
Molekule ran a engine seal test with his ester based oils and found zero problems. I've also heard from people that engine seals actually last very long with Redline bc it keeps them pliable and fresh.
Redline is great to deal with. They will answer any question you throw at them. Roy also used to be chief chemist at Lubrizol and all these companies work closely with the additive suppliers so I really doubt these issues exist.
Kinda of drifting off topic here but Danny at Maxima said chemists that see cost as no barrier to overcome, will use esters for superior performance. You can find an ester (300+ esters exist??) that in almost every situation that will outperform any other base oil on the market. But, for automotive use, it's overkill and Maxima fully acknowledges this in their advertising.
Figures. Leave it up to API to leave out important tests. Larry and Moe oils aren't made from esters like Redline is. They use safe dino oil and buy an add pack and voila, they have motor oil. You know how esters feel about seals. There must be compensating other ingredients in the right amounts. But yes, I'm one voice that gets drowned out by the noise of others. I did tell my tell tale to the people who sold me the Redline. They said, "hmmm". Just like you did.
Redline wouldn't change based on small % of people with problems. I'm gone home now. You like Redline...I don't. Story over.
Thanks for emailing Redline, buster. Tom has talked about esters and seals which is well worth reading. Ok, I'm really going home now.
Well, at least you admit that your prejudices are based on a sample size of one, with a lot of conjecture sprinkled on top.
Same could be said of the high aromatic content of the lower base group oils from which dinos are made, which cause seal swelling just like the unmodified esters, thus dinos are in no way inherently safer.
One last question, which esters? Like the esters in AutoRX? Is the esters in AutoRX ruining seals in droves? Are the people who discover this immediately whisked away to Guantánamo Bay to be forever silenced.
From a guy using double-ester Motul 300V:
Q: If a tree falls in Guantanamo Bay, does it make a noise?
A: Whether there are any trees in Guantanamo Bay is classified. If any classified trees existed, whether or not they would make a noise is classified. The noises that any classified trees could possibly make would also be classified. Actually, your question is classified. You are in trouble for even asking it.
Esters don't seem to cause seal problems on younger engines. Can't say for older ones, though
Cheers
JJ
Q: If a tree falls in Guantanamo Bay, does it make a noise?
A: Whether there are any trees in Guantanamo Bay is classified. If any classified trees existed, whether or not they would make a noise is classified. The noises that any classified trees could possibly make would also be classified. Actually, your question is classified. You are in trouble for even asking it.
Esters don't seem to cause seal problems on younger engines. Can't say for older ones, though
Cheers
JJ
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Well, at least you admit that your prejudices are based on a sample size of one, with a lot of conjecture sprinkled on top.
Laughing at my very frustrating experience is not funny at all. Don't reply here to me again. I won't see it even if you do.
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Well, at least you admit that your prejudices are based on a sample size of one, with a lot of conjecture sprinkled on top.
Laughing at my very frustrating experience is not funny at all. Don't reply here to me again. I won't see it even if you do.
I'm not laughing at your frustrating experience. Although I am amused that someone would condemn all esters based on one bad experience given the preponderance of evidence. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, especially with a sample size of one.
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Well, at least you admit that your prejudices are based on a sample size of one, with a lot of conjecture sprinkled on top.
Laughing at my very frustrating experience is not funny at all. Don't reply here to me again. I won't see it even if you do.
Ignore User is a wonderful option to have for some folks isn't it!
Hey Sarge how are those Hendricks Motorsports...err...I mean Henricks, which are unrelated to the former, spinners holding up?
For PCMOs, there is no seal compatibility test required under API. Didn't you see the above post?
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Why does RL still think it's necessary for the rings to seat? I'm guessing it's for many of the rebuilt/custom engines??
Depending on the cylinder wall finish and ring design/composition, it can be a problem, but is more likely in an aftermarket rebuild.
Dave's reply on the seal compatibility is just as I suspected. If you followed one of the other threads, I posted some links that clearly show that esters, AN, and mineral based oils all can contribute to seal swell. PAO is actually the odd man out, but of course is compensated for in the final formulation.
Well I didn't log in and unfortunately could see 427Z06 ( doesn't have one except in his dreams) post. OK....As you insist on keeping this going I'll respond.
My motor is quite well and Terry Dyson and I are working through the 30 weight versus 40 weight analysis and "experiment"....Pontiac is quite pleased with the work we have done over the winter....you can see us in the May issue of HPP.....Must be a miserable life there....I would much rather have the reputation you are trying to lay off on me than your reputation here. Are you just in denial how "popular" you are here? Your a obviously smart fella...but have the communications skills of the Unibomber and the presence of a scab. Please reflect.
My motor is quite well and Terry Dyson and I are working through the 30 weight versus 40 weight analysis and "experiment"....Pontiac is quite pleased with the work we have done over the winter....you can see us in the May issue of HPP.....Must be a miserable life there....I would much rather have the reputation you are trying to lay off on me than your reputation here. Are you just in denial how "popular" you are here? Your a obviously smart fella...but have the communications skills of the Unibomber and the presence of a scab. Please reflect.
Very nice Sarge. Dropping into a thread just to hurl some insults, without contributing anything meaningful, is behavior most would NOT be would be proud of.
Ah...I see you continue to speculate without actually knowing anything about me whatsoever.
Good, Terry Dyson comes highly recommended.
Sarge, I'm not in a popularity contest here. Unlike you, I share what knowledge and experience I have in with hopes of helping people make better choices not to brag how great I am. Getting pictures in a cheap automotive rag does not impress me as much as it seems it does you.
Further, YOU are the master of your reputation. YOU are the one who tried to bamboozle the crowd into thinking your engines were built with parts from professional NASCAR engine shops as can be seen in this post.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=804541
And in another post, when you actually provided some data to back up your position, it was flawed, since it was quickly determined that the claimed analysis didn't even match the signature of the product in question.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=815558
So in the final analysis, you may be very popular here and elsewhere, but popularity does not necessarily equal knowledge and integrity. Enron's Jeffrey Skilling was voted one of America’s best CEOs in 2000, and we all know how that story ended.
Ah...I see you continue to speculate without actually knowing anything about me whatsoever.
Good, Terry Dyson comes highly recommended.
Sarge, I'm not in a popularity contest here. Unlike you, I share what knowledge and experience I have in with hopes of helping people make better choices not to brag how great I am. Getting pictures in a cheap automotive rag does not impress me as much as it seems it does you.
Further, YOU are the master of your reputation. YOU are the one who tried to bamboozle the crowd into thinking your engines were built with parts from professional NASCAR engine shops as can be seen in this post.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=804541
And in another post, when you actually provided some data to back up your position, it was flawed, since it was quickly determined that the claimed analysis didn't even match the signature of the product in question.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=815558
So in the final analysis, you may be very popular here and elsewhere, but popularity does not necessarily equal knowledge and integrity. Enron's Jeffrey Skilling was voted one of America’s best CEOs in 2000, and we all know how that story ended.
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