We have a lot of people do not use the machine for trips to the supermarket are poured heavy oil. And many services, athletes pour 5-40, 5-50, 15-50, 10-60 oil.
Oil in a Subaru wrx sti 350hp
- Thread starter Semantr
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Note that RCM are one of the main Subaru experts in the UK and Western Europe, perhaps you could fire them off an email to ask their advice on oil specs in your particular climate/usage.
There are very good reasons why they have chosen those oil specs, and I would have no problem using what they recommend in a tuned Impreza.
What mods have you got to get your quoted power figures?
Do you use it for things such as Time Attack? Or just track days?
I don't think Castrol oil is bad for any car, most if not all Ford main dealers use Castrol oils and a large number of Volvo dealers use Castrol products also(UK not sure about elsewhere).
Fuchs/Silkolene are quality oils, I wouldn't be concerned if the oil meets other specs, I assume Jaso MA/2, as that just means it meets those specs, it also meets the ones you need and being a proper Ester Synthetic your engine will be well protected.
Note that RCM have came to this result via Motorsport and I would suspect a lot of data from UOA aswell.
My WRX was I believe filled with Mobil 1 but as it was new I simply requested the Mobil 1 upgrade and as I sold the car many years ago I can't check what the viscosity was, I suspect either 0w40 or 0w30 but can't be sure.
Though a Subaru main dealer would tend to use what International Motors spec rather than what a specialist would use which would be based on research data.
15w50 ester synthetic would me my choice or perhaps a 10w50.
Have a look on Opieoils for prices I think they will post to Russia. Or if you have friends in Germany they might be able to get Fuchs products a little bit cheaper perhaps.
£42:16 for 5 litres on Opieoils for Fuchs/Silkolene and £44:04 for Millers CFS Competition Oil (full synth not sure if ester)
I assume everybody has noted this is an STi rather than a tuned WRX?
There are some differences, not sure what as I am no longer the Scooby head I once was, I seem to remember that the RA version STi had blueprinted engines, not sure if that was all of them though.
Was this STi originally a UK model vehicle or has it been imported from Japan, Japanese market vehicles are a different beast and tended to be in a higher state of tune from the word go, hence why they are so popular in the UK and in Aus and NZ.
There are very good reasons why they have chosen those oil specs, and I would have no problem using what they recommend in a tuned Impreza.
What mods have you got to get your quoted power figures?
Do you use it for things such as Time Attack? Or just track days?
I don't think Castrol oil is bad for any car, most if not all Ford main dealers use Castrol oils and a large number of Volvo dealers use Castrol products also(UK not sure about elsewhere).
Fuchs/Silkolene are quality oils, I wouldn't be concerned if the oil meets other specs, I assume Jaso MA/2, as that just means it meets those specs, it also meets the ones you need and being a proper Ester Synthetic your engine will be well protected.
Note that RCM have came to this result via Motorsport and I would suspect a lot of data from UOA aswell.
My WRX was I believe filled with Mobil 1 but as it was new I simply requested the Mobil 1 upgrade and as I sold the car many years ago I can't check what the viscosity was, I suspect either 0w40 or 0w30 but can't be sure.
Though a Subaru main dealer would tend to use what International Motors spec rather than what a specialist would use which would be based on research data.
15w50 ester synthetic would me my choice or perhaps a 10w50.
Have a look on Opieoils for prices I think they will post to Russia. Or if you have friends in Germany they might be able to get Fuchs products a little bit cheaper perhaps.
£42:16 for 5 litres on Opieoils for Fuchs/Silkolene and £44:04 for Millers CFS Competition Oil (full synth not sure if ester)
I assume everybody has noted this is an STi rather than a tuned WRX?
There are some differences, not sure what as I am no longer the Scooby head I once was, I seem to remember that the RA version STi had blueprinted engines, not sure if that was all of them though.
Was this STi originally a UK model vehicle or has it been imported from Japan, Japanese market vehicles are a different beast and tended to be in a higher state of tune from the word go, hence why they are so popular in the UK and in Aus and NZ.
You do not need to use Castrol Sport 10W-60.
Ask for advice here:
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/692978-oil-advice-and-recomendations-here.html
He will need more details about your car and the type of racing you do.
Here's a 510 whp STI running Rotella T6 5W-40:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-members-j...lla-t6-uoa.html
There's also a UOA on Rotella T6 from a 400 whp STI here on this forum, but I can't find it at this moment.
I would run Castrol 0W-40 in winter and Castrol 5W-40 diesel in summer. This is funny. Normally, I'm trying to get WRX owners to use thicker oil, but you do not need to use thicker oil.
-Dennis
Ask for advice here:
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/692978-oil-advice-and-recomendations-here.html
He will need more details about your car and the type of racing you do.
Here's a 510 whp STI running Rotella T6 5W-40:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-members-j...lla-t6-uoa.html
There's also a UOA on Rotella T6 from a 400 whp STI here on this forum, but I can't find it at this moment.
I would run Castrol 0W-40 in winter and Castrol 5W-40 diesel in summer. This is funny. Normally, I'm trying to get WRX owners to use thicker oil, but you do not need to use thicker oil.
-Dennis
You do realise that the first link to Scoobynet doesn't seem to agree with your opinion don't you?
It seems the general consensus is not to use anything as light as 0w or 5w.
And mention is made of 10w40 and 15w50 etc.
Sites like Opieoils are good and as they seem to be agreeing with my opinion pretty much, and I base my opinion on those of specialists that know more than I do about Scoob's, ScoobyClinic 10w50 and RCM 15w50.
You will see mention of things like "best" in relation to ester synthetic 15w50 oil or not as good but still decent 10w40 oils though.
If I could afford an STi the. I would spend £45 odd on some decent oil and also pay the high price of an STi oil filter, About £20 I think. Why? Well it is designed to STi specs and is dayglow STi brand pink!
What other motive do you need to pay £20 for an oil filter.
Obviously it goes without saying to not use the old spec black Subaru filters and only use the later blue ones if you want to stick OEM, but there are other oil filter options such as Zero Sports etc.
Opieoils' Oilman also speaks about the motorbike specs in that thread saying it is ok to use it.
But if worried I am sure there are many 10w50 or 15w50 full synth or ester synth oils to use.
Actually quite tempted to put some 10w50 in the wife's Clio as it is a specced viscosity.
Are there any opinions from US based Subaru tuners that are familiar with European or Japanese spec STi Scoobies?
I just don't want the OP following advise that may not be the best for him, after all his usage conditions, traffic etc are much closer to EU and UK than the US. I would say that driving conditions in Russia may well be harsher than the EU and UK and therefore a thicker oil would provide more protection when hot.
One point to mention Opieoils are oil retailers and RCM and ScoobyClinic are specialist so I would tend to defer to their advice over Opie, though Oilman seems to agree with them in most cases.
It seems the general consensus is not to use anything as light as 0w or 5w.
And mention is made of 10w40 and 15w50 etc.
Sites like Opieoils are good and as they seem to be agreeing with my opinion pretty much, and I base my opinion on those of specialists that know more than I do about Scoob's, ScoobyClinic 10w50 and RCM 15w50.
You will see mention of things like "best" in relation to ester synthetic 15w50 oil or not as good but still decent 10w40 oils though.
If I could afford an STi the. I would spend £45 odd on some decent oil and also pay the high price of an STi oil filter, About £20 I think. Why? Well it is designed to STi specs and is dayglow STi brand pink!
What other motive do you need to pay £20 for an oil filter.
Obviously it goes without saying to not use the old spec black Subaru filters and only use the later blue ones if you want to stick OEM, but there are other oil filter options such as Zero Sports etc.
Opieoils' Oilman also speaks about the motorbike specs in that thread saying it is ok to use it.
But if worried I am sure there are many 10w50 or 15w50 full synth or ester synth oils to use.
Actually quite tempted to put some 10w50 in the wife's Clio as it is a specced viscosity.
Are there any opinions from US based Subaru tuners that are familiar with European or Japanese spec STi Scoobies?
I just don't want the OP following advise that may not be the best for him, after all his usage conditions, traffic etc are much closer to EU and UK than the US. I would say that driving conditions in Russia may well be harsher than the EU and UK and therefore a thicker oil would provide more protection when hot.
One point to mention Opieoils are oil retailers and RCM and ScoobyClinic are specialist so I would tend to defer to their advice over Opie, though Oilman seems to agree with them in most cases.
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I don't get why so many are caught on the cold spec of 0w or 5w, that is not going to determine how the oil will perform at operating temp.
The last thing you'd want to run in winter is a 15 or 20 rating while cold, unless you like hearing your engine scream at startup.
The last thing you'd want to run in winter is a 15 or 20 rating while cold, unless you like hearing your engine scream at startup.
I understand your point on running a 20w oil, but there are no reports of engines screaming on start-up on any Subaru related forum in the UK when running 15w, I have never advocated or noted any Subaru specialist in the UK using a 20w though.
I will stick with the opinion of two of the biggest names in the UK Subaru scene until another opinion from an equally qualified source pops along.
Surely if these oil choices were causing engines to scream when started cold and caused any problems then the net would be full of these stories, the UK Forums used to have a few reports of bottom end failures, but most of the ones I read about were Classic shape, not sure if they were [censored] WRX models or UK model Turbo 2000's though.
I will stick with the opinion of two of the biggest names in the UK Subaru scene until another opinion from an equally qualified source pops along.
Surely if these oil choices were causing engines to scream when started cold and caused any problems then the net would be full of these stories, the UK Forums used to have a few reports of bottom end failures, but most of the ones I read about were Classic shape, not sure if they were [censored] WRX models or UK model Turbo 2000's though.
The first response on Scoobynet was a question related to 15W-50. It was not a recommendation for a particular application. If you read a bit more, you'll see that Oilman advocates more use of 5W-40 lately.
Thermo - A lot of the UK Scooby "specialists" have their head in the sand about oil. They will say that a 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too thin, while a 10W-40 is good because it is thick. As you know, these grades are all a 40 weight at operating temp and few probably even realize the cold cranking temp to get the 0, 5, or 10W rating.
Notice the uoa's on 40 weights in this thread and the lack of uoa's on 50 weights. I'll patiently wait for some data on those viscosities while we continue to
-Dennis
P.S. - This is only two random uoa's, and not a trend, but here's a uoa on a tracked WRX running a 40 weight and then a 50 weight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375446&referrerid=767
Thermo - A lot of the UK Scooby "specialists" have their head in the sand about oil. They will say that a 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too thin, while a 10W-40 is good because it is thick. As you know, these grades are all a 40 weight at operating temp and few probably even realize the cold cranking temp to get the 0, 5, or 10W rating.
Notice the uoa's on 40 weights in this thread and the lack of uoa's on 50 weights. I'll patiently wait for some data on those viscosities while we continue to
-Dennis
P.S. - This is only two random uoa's, and not a trend, but here's a uoa on a tracked WRX running a 40 weight and then a 50 weight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375446&referrerid=767
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MOTUL 8100 0W30 , or 0w-40
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Note that RCM are one of the main Subaru experts in the UK and Western Europe, perhaps you could fire them off an email to ask their advice on oil specs in your particular climate/usage.
There are very good reasons why they have chosen those oil specs, and I would have no problem using what they recommend in a tuned Impreza.
What mods have you got to get your quoted power figures?
Do you use it for things such as Time Attack? Or just track days?
I don't think Castrol oil is bad for any car, most if not all Ford main dealers use Castrol oils and a large number of Volvo dealers use Castrol products also(UK not sure about elsewhere).
Fuchs/Silkolene are quality oils, I wouldn't be concerned if the oil meets other specs, I assume Jaso MA/2, as that just means it meets those specs, it also meets the ones you need and being a proper Ester Synthetic your engine will be well protected.
Note that RCM have came to this result via Motorsport and I would suspect a lot of data from UOA aswell.
My WRX was I believe filled with Mobil 1 but as it was new I simply requested the Mobil 1 upgrade and as I sold the car many years ago I can't check what the viscosity was, I suspect either 0w40 or 0w30 but can't be sure.
Though a Subaru main dealer would tend to use what International Motors spec rather than what a specialist would use which would be based on research data.
15w50 ester synthetic would me my choice or perhaps a 10w50.
Have a look on Opieoils for prices I think they will post to Russia. Or if you have friends in Germany they might be able to get Fuchs products a little bit cheaper perhaps.
£42:16 for 5 litres on Opieoils for Fuchs/Silkolene and £44:04 for Millers CFS Competition Oil (full synth not sure if ester)
I assume everybody has noted this is an STi rather than a tuned WRX?
There are some differences, not sure what as I am no longer the Scooby head I once was, I seem to remember that the RA version STi had blueprinted engines, not sure if that was all of them though.
Was this STi originally a UK model vehicle or has it been imported from Japan, Japanese market vehicles are a different beast and tended to be in a higher state of tune from the word go, hence why they are so popular in the UK and in Aus and NZ.
I also trust the RCM as seen results subaru gc8 time attack. I would gladly ordered this oil (Fuchs / Silkolene http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1146-silkole...ce-engines.aspx) through someone else, but I do not have friends in Germany or England (UK)
Note that RCM are one of the main Subaru experts in the UK and Western Europe, perhaps you could fire them off an email to ask their advice on oil specs in your particular climate/usage.
There are very good reasons why they have chosen those oil specs, and I would have no problem using what they recommend in a tuned Impreza.
What mods have you got to get your quoted power figures?
Do you use it for things such as Time Attack? Or just track days?
I don't think Castrol oil is bad for any car, most if not all Ford main dealers use Castrol oils and a large number of Volvo dealers use Castrol products also(UK not sure about elsewhere).
Fuchs/Silkolene are quality oils, I wouldn't be concerned if the oil meets other specs, I assume Jaso MA/2, as that just means it meets those specs, it also meets the ones you need and being a proper Ester Synthetic your engine will be well protected.
Note that RCM have came to this result via Motorsport and I would suspect a lot of data from UOA aswell.
My WRX was I believe filled with Mobil 1 but as it was new I simply requested the Mobil 1 upgrade and as I sold the car many years ago I can't check what the viscosity was, I suspect either 0w40 or 0w30 but can't be sure.
Though a Subaru main dealer would tend to use what International Motors spec rather than what a specialist would use which would be based on research data.
15w50 ester synthetic would me my choice or perhaps a 10w50.
Have a look on Opieoils for prices I think they will post to Russia. Or if you have friends in Germany they might be able to get Fuchs products a little bit cheaper perhaps.
£42:16 for 5 litres on Opieoils for Fuchs/Silkolene and £44:04 for Millers CFS Competition Oil (full synth not sure if ester)
I assume everybody has noted this is an STi rather than a tuned WRX?
There are some differences, not sure what as I am no longer the Scooby head I once was, I seem to remember that the RA version STi had blueprinted engines, not sure if that was all of them though.
Was this STi originally a UK model vehicle or has it been imported from Japan, Japanese market vehicles are a different beast and tended to be in a higher state of tune from the word go, hence why they are so popular in the UK and in Aus and NZ.
I also trust the RCM as seen results subaru gc8 time attack. I would gladly ordered this oil (Fuchs / Silkolene http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-1146-silkole...ce-engines.aspx) through someone else, but I do not have friends in Germany or England (UK)
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If you check the options at the bottom of the Opieoils web page and select "carriage charges" you can select "Russia Federation" so I think they will post oil out to you but it may be around £30 or more and there may be customs charges aswell.
Are there any VW specialist near you?
As one of the oils used by VW owners is Fuchs.
I am glad I started looking in more detail at the Opie Oils site as I had forgot all about Fuchs oil, they used to be stocked by German and Swedish but now they stock Carlube!
There are some well priced Fuchs products on there.
Though I suspect it may make more sense to make one large order, in other words buy 4x5 litres of the Fuchs/Silkolene oil for your Scoob as then the shipping would be £67:50+vat @20% and then customs fees. So the shipping per 5litre is around £20.
Not good but worth a thought if you intend to keep you Sccob for many years.
Or perhaps a "Roadtrip" is in order to one of the big Subaru shows in Western Europe or the UK then head home with a boot load of oil and filters!
I would try and find a VW specialist first and then order from Opie.
I suppose you can't put a price on quality and that oil will be good for the full service interval, the RCM interval of 6k though the WR1 which is in a similar state of tune to your car is on a 5k interval.
I would be happy with 6k myself.
Are there any VW specialist near you?
As one of the oils used by VW owners is Fuchs.
I am glad I started looking in more detail at the Opie Oils site as I had forgot all about Fuchs oil, they used to be stocked by German and Swedish but now they stock Carlube!
There are some well priced Fuchs products on there.
Though I suspect it may make more sense to make one large order, in other words buy 4x5 litres of the Fuchs/Silkolene oil for your Scoob as then the shipping would be £67:50+vat @20% and then customs fees. So the shipping per 5litre is around £20.
Not good but worth a thought if you intend to keep you Sccob for many years.
Or perhaps a "Roadtrip" is in order to one of the big Subaru shows in Western Europe or the UK then head home with a boot load of oil and filters!
I would try and find a VW specialist first and then order from Opie.
I suppose you can't put a price on quality and that oil will be good for the full service interval, the RCM interval of 6k though the WR1 which is in a similar state of tune to your car is on a 5k interval.
I would be happy with 6k myself.
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
The first response on Scoobynet was a question related to 15W-50. It was not a recommendation for a particular application. If you read a bit more, you'll see that Oilman advocates more use of 5W-40 lately.
Thermo - A lot of the UK Scooby "specialists" have their head in the sand about oil. They will say that a 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too thin, while a 10W-40 is good because it is thick. As you know, these grades are all a 40 weight at operating temp and few probably even realize the cold cranking temp to get the 0, 5, or 10W rating.
Notice the uoa's on 40 weights in this thread and the lack of uoa's on 50 weights. I'll patiently wait for some data on those viscosities while we continue to
-Dennis
P.S. - This is only two random uoa's, and not a trend, but here's a uoa on a tracked WRX running a 40 weight and then a 50 weight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375446&referrerid=767
Whatever.
You are basically saying that respected motorsport specialists with a long history of success in competition are wrong simply because they are not from North America.
I do live people on this board who belittle any opinion other than one they agree with and have I have noticed that some find it difficult to accept any opinion based outside the US.
I hate to say it but companies like RCM have been specialising in turbo SubRus as far back as the early ninties, actually when did they start to sell Turbo Subarus in the US?
As far as I am concerned feel free to put 0w20 in you STi or WRX if that makes you feel better I shall continue to advocate following well respected specialists advise if that is OK with you.
How long have you been a specialist in tuned Subarus and Mitsubishis bluesubie?
And do you really think there hasn't been a period of R&D performed prior to these published oil recommendations?
I assume you know better than STi , Zero Sports and any other Subaru specialists in Japan aswell.
Or can we expect comments with "specialist" relating to them at a later date.
Who are these "proper American specialists" that you deem superior?
I think you need to consider companies such as Prodrive, McClaren and all the other motorsport companies based in the UK, or are these "specialists" as you have pointed out in your previous post.
And I will take the opinion of RCM and ScoobyClinic over Opie if you don't mind, helpful though Oilman is he is also just trying to sell product.
Not going to read the entire thread on Scoobynet but the bits I have read seem to relate to non tuned and non STi models.
You are aware that the Classic shape Impreza isn't exactly the same as the newer models, and that UK Classic models only had around 200bhp standard and Japanese WRX Classic shapes had 260/280bhp.
I think your knowledge of Subarus may be more limited than you think it is.
Feel free to post up details of your "US specialists" for us to browse
The first response on Scoobynet was a question related to 15W-50. It was not a recommendation for a particular application. If you read a bit more, you'll see that Oilman advocates more use of 5W-40 lately.
Thermo - A lot of the UK Scooby "specialists" have their head in the sand about oil. They will say that a 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too thin, while a 10W-40 is good because it is thick. As you know, these grades are all a 40 weight at operating temp and few probably even realize the cold cranking temp to get the 0, 5, or 10W rating.
Notice the uoa's on 40 weights in this thread and the lack of uoa's on 50 weights. I'll patiently wait for some data on those viscosities while we continue to
-Dennis
P.S. - This is only two random uoa's, and not a trend, but here's a uoa on a tracked WRX running a 40 weight and then a 50 weight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375446&referrerid=767
Whatever.
You are basically saying that respected motorsport specialists with a long history of success in competition are wrong simply because they are not from North America.
I do live people on this board who belittle any opinion other than one they agree with and have I have noticed that some find it difficult to accept any opinion based outside the US.
I hate to say it but companies like RCM have been specialising in turbo SubRus as far back as the early ninties, actually when did they start to sell Turbo Subarus in the US?
As far as I am concerned feel free to put 0w20 in you STi or WRX if that makes you feel better I shall continue to advocate following well respected specialists advise if that is OK with you.
How long have you been a specialist in tuned Subarus and Mitsubishis bluesubie?
And do you really think there hasn't been a period of R&D performed prior to these published oil recommendations?
I assume you know better than STi , Zero Sports and any other Subaru specialists in Japan aswell.
Or can we expect comments with "specialist" relating to them at a later date.
Who are these "proper American specialists" that you deem superior?
I think you need to consider companies such as Prodrive, McClaren and all the other motorsport companies based in the UK, or are these "specialists" as you have pointed out in your previous post.
And I will take the opinion of RCM and ScoobyClinic over Opie if you don't mind, helpful though Oilman is he is also just trying to sell product.
Not going to read the entire thread on Scoobynet but the bits I have read seem to relate to non tuned and non STi models.
You are aware that the Classic shape Impreza isn't exactly the same as the newer models, and that UK Classic models only had around 200bhp standard and Japanese WRX Classic shapes had 260/280bhp.
I think your knowledge of Subarus may be more limited than you think it is.
Feel free to post up details of your "US specialists" for us to browse
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
The first response on Scoobynet was a question related to 15W-50. It was not a recommendation for a particular application. If you read a bit more, you'll see that Oilman advocates more use of 5W-40 lately.
Thermo - A lot of the UK Scooby "specialists" have their head in the sand about oil. They will say that a 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too thin, while a 10W-40 is good because it is thick. As you know, these grades are all a 40 weight at operating temp and few probably even realize the cold cranking temp to get the 0, 5, or 10W rating.
Notice the uoa's on 40 weights in this thread and the lack of uoa's on 50 weights. I'll patiently wait for some data on those viscosities while we continue to
-Dennis
P.S. - This is only two random uoa's, and not a trend, but here's a uoa on a tracked WRX running a 40 weight and then a 50 weight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375446&referrerid=767
Whatever.
You are basically saying that respected motorsport specialists with a long history of success in competition are wrong simply because they are not from North America.
I do live people on this board who belittle any opinion other than one they agree with and have I have noticed that some find it difficult to accept any opinion based outside the US.
I hate to say it but companies like RCM have been specialising in turbo SubRus as far back as the early ninties, actually when did they start to sell Turbo Subarus in the US?
As far as I am concerned feel free to put 0w20 in you STi or WRX if that makes you feel better I shall continue to advocate following well respected specialists advise if that is OK with you.
How long have you been a specialist in tuned Subarus and Mitsubishis bluesubie?
And do you really think there hasn't been a period of R&D performed prior to these published oil recommendations?
I assume you know better than STi , Zero Sports and any other Subaru specialists in Japan aswell.
Or can we expect comments with "specialist" relating to them at a later date.
Who are these "proper American specialists" that you deem superior?
I think you need to consider companies such as Prodrive, McClaren and all the other motorsport companies based in the UK, or are these "specialists" as you have pointed out in your previous post.
And I will take the opinion of RCM and ScoobyClinic over Opie if you don't mind, helpful though Oilman is he is also just trying to sell product.
Not going to read the entire thread on Scoobynet but the bits I have read seem to relate to non tuned and non STi models.
You are aware that the Classic shape Impreza isn't exactly the same as the newer models, and that UK Classic models only had around 200bhp standard and Japanese WRX Classic shapes had 260/280bhp.
I think your knowledge of Subarus may be more limited than you think it is.
Feel free to post up details of your "US specialists" for us to browse
Who is the one that inferred UK Subaru specialists are better simply because they have been building WRX's longer than the specialists in the UK? The WRX wasn't the first turbo Subaru here.
You mention that I shouldn't believe everything that I read on Scoobynet and that SIDC is better. I scanned through the SIDC forum and saw recommendations for everything from 5W-30 to 10W-60. As I mentioned above, it's best to follow the builder's recommendation for viscosity. Do you know the details of the OP's build? Do you know whether or not he's driving a classic shape?
A couple of us have at least posted a little data to back up our recommendations.
-Dennis
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
The first response on Scoobynet was a question related to 15W-50. It was not a recommendation for a particular application. If you read a bit more, you'll see that Oilman advocates more use of 5W-40 lately.
Thermo - A lot of the UK Scooby "specialists" have their head in the sand about oil. They will say that a 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too thin, while a 10W-40 is good because it is thick. As you know, these grades are all a 40 weight at operating temp and few probably even realize the cold cranking temp to get the 0, 5, or 10W rating.
Notice the uoa's on 40 weights in this thread and the lack of uoa's on 50 weights. I'll patiently wait for some data on those viscosities while we continue to
-Dennis
P.S. - This is only two random uoa's, and not a trend, but here's a uoa on a tracked WRX running a 40 weight and then a 50 weight.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375446&referrerid=767
Whatever.
You are basically saying that respected motorsport specialists with a long history of success in competition are wrong simply because they are not from North America.
I do live people on this board who belittle any opinion other than one they agree with and have I have noticed that some find it difficult to accept any opinion based outside the US.
I hate to say it but companies like RCM have been specialising in turbo SubRus as far back as the early ninties, actually when did they start to sell Turbo Subarus in the US?
As far as I am concerned feel free to put 0w20 in you STi or WRX if that makes you feel better I shall continue to advocate following well respected specialists advise if that is OK with you.
How long have you been a specialist in tuned Subarus and Mitsubishis bluesubie?
And do you really think there hasn't been a period of R&D performed prior to these published oil recommendations?
I assume you know better than STi , Zero Sports and any other Subaru specialists in Japan aswell.
Or can we expect comments with "specialist" relating to them at a later date.
Who are these "proper American specialists" that you deem superior?
I think you need to consider companies such as Prodrive, McClaren and all the other motorsport companies based in the UK, or are these "specialists" as you have pointed out in your previous post.
And I will take the opinion of RCM and ScoobyClinic over Opie if you don't mind, helpful though Oilman is he is also just trying to sell product.
Not going to read the entire thread on Scoobynet but the bits I have read seem to relate to non tuned and non STi models.
You are aware that the Classic shape Impreza isn't exactly the same as the newer models, and that UK Classic models only had around 200bhp standard and Japanese WRX Classic shapes had 260/280bhp.
I think your knowledge of Subarus may be more limited than you think it is.
Feel free to post up details of your "US specialists" for us to browse
Who is the one that inferred UK Subaru specialists are better simply because they have been building WRX's longer than the specialists in the UK? The WRX wasn't the first turbo Subaru here.
You mention that I shouldn't believe everything that I read on Scoobynet and that SIDC is better. I scanned through the SIDC forum and saw recommendations for everything from 5W-30 to 10W-60. As I mentioned above, it's best to follow the builder's recommendation for viscosity. Do you know the details of the OP's build? Do you know whether or not he's driving a classic shape?
A couple of us have at least posted a little data to back up our recommendations.
-Dennis
UK resident:
MY point was he is in Russia...expecting cold temps anywhere from -15c to -25c. So in my land of America, that is anywhere from 5 to -13F.
Why in the bloody [censored] do you want 15w or even a 20w oil in there at startup? It doesn't matter if it is synthetic or not that is just crazy. The UK doesn't experience cold like Russia except in select parts. I checked the avg. in various parts & it hovers right around freezing. That is one reason why you don't here engines screaming in the UK. It's not cold enough!
I've had many winters on the east coast here where the avg. all winters was 2-3F many times dipping to -5F so a very similar comparison to Russia. I remember my cars with regular oil in the 5w range and they hated me in the morning. You could feel it in the gearbox too. I smarten up & started using synthetic and a 0w when I could get it in the winter.
There is the other aspect of possibly sapping engine power with such a high viscosity at operating temp too. You need to talk with the engine builder, ask him what he uses and the track record to back it up with. Just throwing a 10w60 at an engine designed around a 30 is asinine at best and at worst destructive when you run in bypass most of the time in regards to the filter.
MY point was he is in Russia...expecting cold temps anywhere from -15c to -25c. So in my land of America, that is anywhere from 5 to -13F.
Why in the bloody [censored] do you want 15w or even a 20w oil in there at startup? It doesn't matter if it is synthetic or not that is just crazy. The UK doesn't experience cold like Russia except in select parts. I checked the avg. in various parts & it hovers right around freezing. That is one reason why you don't here engines screaming in the UK. It's not cold enough!
I've had many winters on the east coast here where the avg. all winters was 2-3F many times dipping to -5F so a very similar comparison to Russia. I remember my cars with regular oil in the 5w range and they hated me in the morning. You could feel it in the gearbox too. I smarten up & started using synthetic and a 0w when I could get it in the winter.
There is the other aspect of possibly sapping engine power with such a high viscosity at operating temp too. You need to talk with the engine builder, ask him what he uses and the track record to back it up with. Just throwing a 10w60 at an engine designed around a 30 is asinine at best and at worst destructive when you run in bypass most of the time in regards to the filter.
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Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
UK resident:
MY point was he is in Russia...expecting cold temps anywhere from -15c to -25c. So in my land of America, that is anywhere from 5 to -13F.
Why in the bloody [censored] do you want 15w or even a 20w oil in there at startup? It doesn't matter if it is synthetic or not that is just crazy...............
I'm with you, no way would I run a 15W-xx or 20W-xx at those temperatures, unless I had a block heater or a pan heater.
UK resident:
MY point was he is in Russia...expecting cold temps anywhere from -15c to -25c. So in my land of America, that is anywhere from 5 to -13F.
Why in the bloody [censored] do you want 15w or even a 20w oil in there at startup? It doesn't matter if it is synthetic or not that is just crazy...............
I'm with you, no way would I run a 15W-xx or 20W-xx at those temperatures, unless I had a block heater or a pan heater.
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I pour in winter 5-40, need your advice on a good oil, with minimal wear.
No what you did was put "specialists" in inverted commas, this inferring that they know nothing.
Do you remember a World Famous Rally in Europe, called the RAC Rally.
Consider the initials of RCM and see if they link in anyway with the previous mentio ed Rally, notice something.
And will clear something up now, I have not ONCE advised using 20w-- oil in any Subaru.
But UK Subaru Specialists ScoobyClinic and RCM (builder of The Gobstopper) recommend 10w50 and 15w50 respectively.
There sees to be n opinion that engineering expertise is inferior in the UK.
A common misconceptions blown out of the water by the fact that a huge number of Formula 1 teams are based in the UK as are companies like Prodrive and Cosworth.
Now feel free to put 0w20 in you 350 bhp STi, I won't stop you and I am sure you will post up when it goes bang, not.....
And Scoobynet and SIDC do contain good info but when it comes to this I will take the advise of RCM and ScoobyClinic on this one.
I did some research on NASIOC and it does seem a lot of people are experiencing oil consumption in the US. Maybe the oil is 0w20?
But let's consider the boxer engines tendency for piston slap when cold, which a thicker oil when cold is beneficial.
And the WRX wasn't the first turbo Scoob in the UK either that was probably the XT Turbo in the mid eighties closely followed by the Legacy.
The Legacy being the first Subaru to be modified for World Rally duties by Prodrive, driven by Colin Macrae, and closely followed by the Impreza.
One further thing I have noticed the oil specs quoted are for all round year usage.
And as it does get rather cold in most of the UK in winter, especially the East Coast and South East and there does seem to be a lack of anybody talking about problems with the oil specs being used.
Would this indicate the specs are correct or wrong?
Coincidentally there was one issue that I noticed when I owned my Legacy, didn't have the WRX long enough, was the oil usage when driven at sustained high revs or if thrashed around town. It was only serviced by Subaru with some interim oil changes by myself, but I wonder if using a 10w50 or 15w50 would have sorted that?
I do know a mate had a '97 Legacy that I helped him import from Japan, less than 8000mes from new, one owner and in such good condition that it really did look new, it was only a fwd model and he put an LPG conversion on it, the oil he ran in it was 10w60!
He reasoned that he wanted the best protection as LPG runs hot and he did long high speed runs from Sunderland to London most weeks.
The result was the car lasted 4 years and just shy of 120k miles and I believe he run the oil nearly 15k between OCI's.
Only issue was one burnt out valve caused by not running flashlube in it when he should have.
Do you remember a World Famous Rally in Europe, called the RAC Rally.
Consider the initials of RCM and see if they link in anyway with the previous mentio ed Rally, notice something.
And will clear something up now, I have not ONCE advised using 20w-- oil in any Subaru.
But UK Subaru Specialists ScoobyClinic and RCM (builder of The Gobstopper) recommend 10w50 and 15w50 respectively.
There sees to be n opinion that engineering expertise is inferior in the UK.
A common misconceptions blown out of the water by the fact that a huge number of Formula 1 teams are based in the UK as are companies like Prodrive and Cosworth.
Now feel free to put 0w20 in you 350 bhp STi, I won't stop you and I am sure you will post up when it goes bang, not.....
And Scoobynet and SIDC do contain good info but when it comes to this I will take the advise of RCM and ScoobyClinic on this one.
I did some research on NASIOC and it does seem a lot of people are experiencing oil consumption in the US. Maybe the oil is 0w20?
But let's consider the boxer engines tendency for piston slap when cold, which a thicker oil when cold is beneficial.
And the WRX wasn't the first turbo Scoob in the UK either that was probably the XT Turbo in the mid eighties closely followed by the Legacy.
The Legacy being the first Subaru to be modified for World Rally duties by Prodrive, driven by Colin Macrae, and closely followed by the Impreza.
One further thing I have noticed the oil specs quoted are for all round year usage.
And as it does get rather cold in most of the UK in winter, especially the East Coast and South East and there does seem to be a lack of anybody talking about problems with the oil specs being used.
Would this indicate the specs are correct or wrong?
Coincidentally there was one issue that I noticed when I owned my Legacy, didn't have the WRX long enough, was the oil usage when driven at sustained high revs or if thrashed around town. It was only serviced by Subaru with some interim oil changes by myself, but I wonder if using a 10w50 or 15w50 would have sorted that?
I do know a mate had a '97 Legacy that I helped him import from Japan, less than 8000mes from new, one owner and in such good condition that it really did look new, it was only a fwd model and he put an LPG conversion on it, the oil he ran in it was 10w60!
He reasoned that he wanted the best protection as LPG runs hot and he did long high speed runs from Sunderland to London most weeks.
The result was the car lasted 4 years and just shy of 120k miles and I believe he run the oil nearly 15k between OCI's.
Only issue was one burnt out valve caused by not running flashlube in it when he should have.
I put "specialists" in quotation marks because it was an untrue comment about multi-viscosity oil. I don't recall who made the comment, but it was supposedly a well-respected builder posting on scoobynet.
Now if the bulilder would have said that perhaps a 0W-40 has more viscosity index improvers than 10W-40, and that VII's are the first thing in oil to break down, then that would have been a more accurate comment. But to say that a 0W-40 is too light is incorrect. It's not lighter in all temps. RCM did not make the comment.
Many consumption threads on nasioc are due to owners running Resource Conserving 5W-30 in all applications. Even guys with modified WRX's and STI's that run 5W-30 because it's on the cap. As you can see from the uoa's posted earlier by squarenboxez, many owners have begun using mixed/fleet gas diesel oils because they can be found at most oil retailers in the U.S. and Canada. Euro 5W-40's can be harder to find.
However, since Subaru of America dropped the recommendation to use 5W-40 in severe conditions during MY2011, and with the switch to ILSAC GF-5, there have been a few very good uoa's popping up here on these oils with very low wear and little or no consumption.
Semantr - It's difficult to give recommendations when we do not know what oils you have available. A 5W-40 mixed fleet gas/diesel oil may work well (Castrol Turbo Diesel 5W-40) since it will typically have more anti-wear additives than a passenger car Euro 5W-40.
Although, in your cold weather I would run a 0W-40. If I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a good high quality, high anti-wear package oil, then I probably would keep my car stock or not drive a turbo.
-Dennis
Now if the bulilder would have said that perhaps a 0W-40 has more viscosity index improvers than 10W-40, and that VII's are the first thing in oil to break down, then that would have been a more accurate comment. But to say that a 0W-40 is too light is incorrect. It's not lighter in all temps. RCM did not make the comment.
Many consumption threads on nasioc are due to owners running Resource Conserving 5W-30 in all applications. Even guys with modified WRX's and STI's that run 5W-30 because it's on the cap. As you can see from the uoa's posted earlier by squarenboxez, many owners have begun using mixed/fleet gas diesel oils because they can be found at most oil retailers in the U.S. and Canada. Euro 5W-40's can be harder to find.
However, since Subaru of America dropped the recommendation to use 5W-40 in severe conditions during MY2011, and with the switch to ILSAC GF-5, there have been a few very good uoa's popping up here on these oils with very low wear and little or no consumption.
Semantr - It's difficult to give recommendations when we do not know what oils you have available. A 5W-40 mixed fleet gas/diesel oil may work well (Castrol Turbo Diesel 5W-40) since it will typically have more anti-wear additives than a passenger car Euro 5W-40.
Although, in your cold weather I would run a 0W-40. If I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a good high quality, high anti-wear package oil, then I probably would keep my car stock or not drive a turbo.
-Dennis
There will always be cases when less than perfect oil specs are used to little obvious effect.
That doesn't mean there is no detrimental long term issue hiding inside the engine.
If I am in the position to ever own a WRX again I will run the best oil spec possible, and considering the maturity of the Subaru scene in the UK there are very solid reasons to put more weight in what they say, RCM have been involved in Rallying for many, many years and I will take their opinion as being correct.
I strongly suspect that they don't need to go onto forums as I don't think they need to tout for work.
Cars like Gobstopper and the soon to arrive Gobstopper 2 do all the advertising they need. They don't need to compete on price.
And I am sure that ScoobyClinic has several members of staff that are ex World Rally and one bloke used to work for Prodrive(though this info is years d and may have changed).
Lets consider the 5w30 oil selection by Subaru. Is that due to it being the absolute best oil or the one that did no damage when tested and gave the best results possible in the EU emission tests, and therefore reduced the annual roadtax and made the fuel consumption a little better hence improving sales in the EU and UK?
There are sometimes a little more to manufcturers oil specs than engine longevity they are often a compromise.
And manufacturers really don't want to build cars that last forever anymore, that is not profitable, look at Saab!
I have no reason to doubt that a Subaru boxer turbo ran on quality 10w50 or 15w50 will last a long time as long as it is given a proper warm up period and cool down period before shut down.
Due to cost I suspect that if I ever get a Subaru again it will be a [censored] Import Forester as you can get a 10 yr old one for under £1500 CIF with low miles and better looked after than most UK registered cars of the same age.
STis are still huge money. As they are still popular with the Rally boys, and are increasing in popularity due to Time Attack etc.
That doesn't mean there is no detrimental long term issue hiding inside the engine.
If I am in the position to ever own a WRX again I will run the best oil spec possible, and considering the maturity of the Subaru scene in the UK there are very solid reasons to put more weight in what they say, RCM have been involved in Rallying for many, many years and I will take their opinion as being correct.
I strongly suspect that they don't need to go onto forums as I don't think they need to tout for work.
Cars like Gobstopper and the soon to arrive Gobstopper 2 do all the advertising they need. They don't need to compete on price.
And I am sure that ScoobyClinic has several members of staff that are ex World Rally and one bloke used to work for Prodrive(though this info is years d and may have changed).
Lets consider the 5w30 oil selection by Subaru. Is that due to it being the absolute best oil or the one that did no damage when tested and gave the best results possible in the EU emission tests, and therefore reduced the annual roadtax and made the fuel consumption a little better hence improving sales in the EU and UK?
There are sometimes a little more to manufcturers oil specs than engine longevity they are often a compromise.
And manufacturers really don't want to build cars that last forever anymore, that is not profitable, look at Saab!
I have no reason to doubt that a Subaru boxer turbo ran on quality 10w50 or 15w50 will last a long time as long as it is given a proper warm up period and cool down period before shut down.
Due to cost I suspect that if I ever get a Subaru again it will be a [censored] Import Forester as you can get a 10 yr old one for under £1500 CIF with low miles and better looked after than most UK registered cars of the same age.
STis are still huge money. As they are still popular with the Rally boys, and are increasing in popularity due to Time Attack etc.
Just so you are aware Cosworth recommend 20w50 of APi SJ or newer mineral oil for engine break in.
After break in they recommend 15w50 Mobil 1 Extended Performance.
You can find info on www.cosworthperformance.com if you want some extra reading.
Now are you going to say Cosworth are a "specialist"?
After break in they recommend 15w50 Mobil 1 Extended Performance.
You can find info on www.cosworthperformance.com if you want some extra reading.
Now are you going to say Cosworth are a "specialist"?
I'm still not sure why you're mentioning the Gobstopper.
OP =
Quote:
Need your opinion on what kind of oil to pour in the winter (-15 - 25 C) in a Subaru WRX STI 2.2, forged pistons (Mahle), 350hp +, often winter races, sprints.
Gobstopper =
Quote:
The specification includes: A WRC style wide arched 2000 spec body shell, a massive 850bhp Matt Clark built engine, Nitrous-oxide injection, six speed sequential paddle shift Modena dog gearbox, WRC spec Exe-TC suspension, carbon propshaft, GKN rally driveshafts…the list goes on.
I keep repeating myself, but maybe you're missing it so I guess I'll just stop commenting.
-Dennis
OP =
Quote:
Need your opinion on what kind of oil to pour in the winter (-15 - 25 C) in a Subaru WRX STI 2.2, forged pistons (Mahle), 350hp +, often winter races, sprints.
Gobstopper =
Quote:
The specification includes: A WRC style wide arched 2000 spec body shell, a massive 850bhp Matt Clark built engine, Nitrous-oxide injection, six speed sequential paddle shift Modena dog gearbox, WRC spec Exe-TC suspension, carbon propshaft, GKN rally driveshafts…the list goes on.
I keep repeating myself, but maybe you're missing it so I guess I'll just stop commenting.
-Dennis
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