Oil Fill Levels...Who Would You Believe?

[CarbonSteel]

In the biggest load of bovine scatology department from a dealer service writer @ Castle Rock Jeep:

We have a 2021 Grand Cherokee L (the L is important) with a 3.6L engine. The owner’s manual clearly specifies 5.0 quarts of oil for an oil change versus the Grand Cherokee (with no L) that specifies 6.0 quarts of oil. We have the Jeep Wave program which gives 3 free oil changes which I did not use on my Jeep Wrangler, but since the GCL is a lease vehicle, I opted to allow the dealer to change the oil.

The first time I had the oil changed, they filled it with 6 quarts. I dumped it, installed 5 quarts, and moved on (I have dozens of quarts of clearance oil that cost me $1.00 each). I had it done again yesterday and again they filled it with 6 quarts. This time I took it back to have the proper oil level adjusted and point out the invoice shows 6 quarts. The service writer proceeds to tell me that I really don’t know what I am talking about because the engine actually requires 5.1 quarts of oil and they cannot do an order for 0.1 quarts so it will always show 6.0 quarts on the invoice.

I then showed him a photo of the dipstick (engine cold) that shows the oil nearly 1” above the full mark. He ignores it and checks the oil (engine hot from drive to dealer 35 miles away) and it shows the oil at the full mark. He points to it and says that it is filled properly, and you cannot check the engine oil cold, it must be at operating temperature. He agrees to take it into the back and check it and comes back a short time later and says it is properly filled.

He proceeds to give me a Star Publication that describes the oil check procedure which to his credit states that the engine must be at 195°F and if the oil is between the mid-point and up to 7mm above the full mark, it is filled properly.

The problem? The Star Publication (S2109000008 – Oil Check Procedure) is for a Grand Cherokee (no L) without an engine size listed (it could be for the 3.6L or the 5.7L). In addition, when I dumped it the first time and only added 5 quarts, the oil level was exactly on the full mark when cold and not 1” above the full line.

It is little wonder that dealer service departments continue to incorrectly fill these engines, but on the other hand, they should be better educated than the owners. After all, they sell these vehicles and should be fully schooled in how to service them. My guess is that it is just easier to set the oil change machine to 6 quarts and use that setting for all vehicles with 3.6L engines.

It will cause you to question what and who to believe--the owners manual and the dipstick OR the Star Publication and the other dipstick

Oil level cold:

Star Document:

2021 Grand Cherokee L Oil Capacity:

2021 Grand Cherokee Oil Capacity:

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Is this just a battle to see who is "right"? Because it is a lease and dealer serviced, who cares? A quart over isn't going to hurt anything anyway.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Is this just a battle to see who is "right"? Because it is a lease and dealer serviced, who cares? A quart over isn't going to hurt anything anyway.

Nope, just to highlight general incompetence. If they cannot fill the oil correctly, what else can they not do?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

In the biggest load of bovine scatology department from a dealer service writer @ Castle Rock Jeep:

We have a 2021 Grand Cherokee L (the L is important) with a 3.6L engine. The owner’s manual clearly specifies 5.0 quarts of oil for an oil change versus the Grand Cherokee (with no L) that specifies 6.0 quarts of oil. We have the Jeep Wave program which gives 3 free oil changes which I did not use on my Jeep Wrangler, but since the GCL is a lease vehicle, I opted to allow the dealer to change the oil.

The first time I had the oil changed, they filled it with 6 quarts. I dumped it, installed 5 quarts, and moved on (I have dozens of quarts of clearance oil that cost me $1.00 each). I had it done again yesterday and again they filled it with 6 quarts. This time I took it back to have the proper oil level adjusted and point out the invoice shows 6 quarts. The service writer proceeds to tell me that I really don’t know what I am talking about because the engine actually requires 5.1 quarts of oil and they cannot do an order for 0.1 quarts so it will always show 6.0 quarts on the invoice.

I then showed him a photo of the dipstick (engine cold) that shows the oil nearly 1” above the full mark. He ignores it and checks the oil (engine hot from drive to dealer 35 miles away) and it shows the oil at the full mark. He points to it and says that it is filled properly, and you cannot check the engine oil cold, it must be at operating temperature. He agrees to take it into the back and check it and comes back a short time later and says it is properly filled.

He proceeds to give me a Star Publication that describes the oil check procedure which to his credit states that the engine must be at 195°F and if the oil is between the mid-point and up to 7mm above the full mark, it is filled properly.

The problem? The Star Publication (S2109000008 – Oil Check Procedure) is for a Grand Cherokee (no L) without an engine size listed (it could be for the 3.6L or the 5.7L). In addition, when I dumped it the first time and only added 5 quarts, the oil level was exactly on the full mark when cold and not 1” above the full line.

It is little wonder that dealer service departments continue to incorrectly fill these engines, but on the other hand, they should be better educated than the owners. After all, they sell these vehicles and should be fully schooled in how to service them. My guess is that it is just easier to set the oil change machine to 6 quarts and use that setting for all vehicles with 3.6L engines.

It will cause you to question what and who to believe--the owners manual and the dipstick OR the Star Publication and the other dipstick

Oil level cold:

Star Document:

2021 Grand Cherokee L Oil Capacity:

2021 Grand Cherokee Oil Capacity:

You're wasting way too much energy on lease. If the engine goes it's on the dealership.

 

[PF52]

The techs are probably instructed to fill all the vehicles the same amount. All that time spent looking up the correct specs is just wasted time, don't you know!

 

[Kira]

Not to pick a side, but couldn't it be the case that they've learned how much leeway they have and, as mentioned above, settled on "hitting the 6 qt. button" and moving on with their day?
I agree it smacks of carelessness, sloppiness and incompetence but it might not matter.

 

[TheOilWizard]

Full disclaimer, I haven't fully read the owner's manual or examined details in your post but I will say this.

Yes, that oil level does appear to be over filled by nearly a quart based on the picture. That is a significant overfill and I would not be happy either. Perhaps take it to another dealer for a second opinion?

Second, the "Specifications and Capacities" sections for the Ford and Nissan manuals I've read flat out say it's for approximation purposes only and the only true indicator is the dipstick, reservoir level, etc. May be the same for your manufacture.

In other words, if it says you need 5.1 Quarts that is simply a rough estimate but ultimately your dipstick decides.

And I also think it's a really bad attitude to say "who cares it's only a lease.." I would treat a lease as if I owned it.

 

[The Critic]

Paging @TeamZero and/or @MattPersman

 

[CarbonSteel]

The techs are probably instructed to fill all the vehicles the same amount. All that time spent looking up the correct specs is just wasted time, don't you know!

I believe this is totally true. I have not checked on how many 3.6L engines take 5 quarts versus 6 (though every Wrangler since 2018 has and so its not a small number) but they have likely erred on "one size fits all".

 

[CarbonSteel]

Not to pick a side, but couldn't it be the case that they've learned how much leeway they have and, as mentioned above, settled on "hitting the 6 qt. button" and moving on with their day?
I agree it smacks of carelessness, sloppiness and incompetence but it might not matter.

I believe they have just decided to go with 6 quarts for all 3.6L engines as the "easy button". Though I do not/will not abuse it, since it is a lease and will be going back, as you say, it will not matter in the end.

Just sad that something so simple cannot be done correctly.

 

[The Critic]

I believe this is totally true. I have not checked on how many 3.6L engines take 5 quarts versus 6 (though every Wrangler since 2018 has and so its not a small number) but they have likely erred on "one size fits all".

The lube rack is an entry-level position that is often staffed by kids who were never in the top-half of their class....anywhere. While unfortunate, you may have to adjust your expectations.

 

[TheOilWizard]

Though I do not/will not abuse it, since it is a lease and will be going back, as you say, it will not matter in the end.

At least it's not a matter for YOU, but it could still be an issue for the next owner. It might be someone who struggles to afford it, maybe their first car. I would argue it does matter if you look at the bigger picture.

 

[CarbonSteel]

At least it's not a matter for YOU, but it could still be an issue for the next owner. It might be someone who struggles to afford it, maybe their first car. I would argue it does matter if you look at the bigger picture.

Oh, I don't disagree at all--it should be done right, period, the end. But I have two choices--let it go and take advantage of the free oil changes (and tire rotations) OR start changing the oil myself. I still have 3 free changes for my Wrangler, but in the words of ZZ Top - I wouldn't let them touch it with a ten foot pole...

 

[b_b]

the procedure for checking oil level at operating temperature is the correct one. the oil level when cold is when all the oil is drained out of the galleries and heads. the oil level when at temperature is the oil level that the engine is designed to operate at. per ford the engine should be operated at temperature and parked and you should wait 15 min to check the oil. I'm assuming that's a middle ground, oil has expanded due to heat and that allows some oil to drain to the crankcase and some left in the galleries and heads.

 

[TheOilWizard]

Oh, I don't disagree at all--it should be done right, period, the end. But I have two choices--let it go and take advantage of the free oil changes (and tire rotations) OR start changing the oil myself. I still have 3 free changes for my Wrangler, but in the words of ZZ Top - I wouldn't let them touch it with a ten foot pole...

Very true. Thank you for understanding my posts were in general terms and not directed to you at a personal level.

If you determine it is indeed being overfilled, you can get one of the fluid extractors from Harbor Freight for about $10 and extract the excess oil from the dipstick tube. I did that once (after a dealer overfill) and it only took a few minutes. The advantage here is that you can still take advantage of the free services.

 

[Kira]

First, drive as usual and take oil level readings until you get constant results.
Then, just for giggles, after shutdown and cooldown, maybe longer, drain the oil and measure it.
The 3.6l filter drains down so you aren't burdened with guessing how much remains in a spin-off filter.
Then return the "5.1 qt." to the engine and check it by the book.
It'd be interesting to see where the oil level winds up.

Remember: "Almost doesn't count except in horseshoes and hand grenades....and checking a Mopar's oil level!"

 

[CarbonSteel]

the procedure for checking oil level at operating temperature is the correct one. the oil level when cold is when all the oil is drained out of the galleries and heads. the oil level when at temperature is the oil level that the engine is designed to operate at. per ford the engine should be operated at temperature and parked and you should wait 15 min to check the oil. I'm assuming that's a middle ground, oil has expanded due to heat and that allows some oil to drain to the crankcase and some left in the galleries and heads.

The problem is that it is going to take more than the 5.0 quarts specified in the owner's manual to hit the marks noted in the procedure. Had the engine been designed for 6.0 quarts, it would be spot on.

 

[CarbonSteel]

First, drive as usual and take oil level readings until you get constant results.
Then, just for giggles, after shutdown and cooldown, maybe longer, drain the oil and measure it.
The 3.6l filter drains down so you aren't burdened with guessing how much remains in a spin-off filter.
Then return the "5.1 qt." to the engine and check it by the book.
It'd be interesting to see where the oil level winds up.

Remember: "Almost doesn't count except in horseshoes and hand grenades....and checking a Mopar's oil level!"

I have more or less done this some time back. When I drained the overfill, it was 6 quarts. When I refilled with only 5 quarts it was at the full level when cold and at the mid point when hot.

 

[bdcardinal]

I will say as far as the paperwork side, on Dealertrack we cannot bill out partial quantities. A car that takes 5.7qt of oil gets 6 billed on the RO since it won't let me split that up.

It can get really confusing at times with the proper quantity and viscosity. For example, most 5.0 11-14 Mustangs take 5W20, but being a Track Pack mine takes 5W50. Nowhere in the parts catalog, BOM, or vehicle information does it state the vehicle is a Track Pack.

Then you get the prepaid maintenance plans which only pay something like $70 to the dealer total and we have Mustangs now that take 12qt of 5W50 which alone is way more than $70.

 

[CarbonSteel]

The lube rack is an entry-level position that is often staffed by kids who were never in the top-half of their class....anywhere. While unfortunate, you may have to adjust your expectations.

Agree, but this was the service writer who should know better...or not LOL.