Oil change tomorrow M1 0w40 vs Castrol 0w40

[BikeWhisperer]

I'd use either, both are "said" to be predominantly group IV oils with a strong add packs.

I currently have Castrol 0w-40 lined up for my next few oil changes on my Eco-Boost. But I would be just as equally happy with the M1.

 

[zpinch]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Between the two, I prefer Castrol. It has better TBN retention due to it's magnesium content and it contains a titanium anti wear additive. In reality, both are great oils.


TBN retention, IMHO doesn't mean much if the additives contributing to the TBN isn't doing it's job, other than boosting the TBN number. Magnesium isn't an additive to be used in a long drain oil, it's actually not an effective neutralizer compared to Calcium, when it comes down to it. Amsoil's Signature Series oil does not use Magnesium in this oil as it's not an ideal for long drain oils.

 

[Stewie]

Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
I'd go with M1, but Castrol is giving out 2 Fast 7 tickets...so..


whaaaaat!

When Where how????

 

[Leonardo629]

check it out:

Furious 7 Tickets

offer expires May 31st

 

[00Max00]

Isn't M1 0W40 has stronger specs on paper?

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4:
Name Method Units Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4
Density @ 15°C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.841
Viscosity, Kinematic 100°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 13.5
Viscosity, CCS -35°C ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5800
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -50
Viscosity, Kinematic 40°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 79
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.12
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 169
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 240

Mobil 1 0W-40 Value
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: 00Max00
Isn't M1 0W40 has stronger specs on paper?

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4:
Name Method Units Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4
Density @ 15°C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.841
Viscosity, Kinematic 100°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 13.5
Viscosity, CCS -35°C ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5800
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -50
Viscosity, Kinematic 40°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 79
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.12
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 169
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 240

Mobil 1 0W-40 Value
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85



Stronger in what way? All you can do with the above data is make certain assumptions, but draw no real conclusions as to which will protect better. Mobil 1 has a higher VI, but that is not necessarily better (or worse) from a wear protection stand point. It also could mean that it has more VII's in it propping up that VI number. We know that Castrol is mostly (at least 50%) PAO, whereas Mobil 1 has been Visom (Group III+) for many years now (it could be making it's way back to PAO though). This could mean that the Castrol may have better extreme low temperature performance, but usually most people won't ever test an oils' lower limits in the US anyway. Mobil 1 uses a calcium based detergent, and features boron and moly (IIRC), whereas Castrol uses less calcium with a bit of magnesium, and a titanium anti-wear additive.

But we do know for sure that both oils meet many of the same stringent specs, so they can and should be considered equals for the most part.

Buy whichever you like, both will perform very well (I have used them both myself interchangeably for many years).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: 00Max00
Isn't M1 0W40 has stronger specs on paper?

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4:
Name Method Units Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4
Density @ 15°C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.841
Viscosity, Kinematic 100°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 13.5
Viscosity, CCS -35°C ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 5800
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -50
Viscosity, Kinematic 40°C ASTM D445 mm²/s 79
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.12
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 169
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 240

Mobil 1 0W-40 Value
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40º C 75
@ 100º C 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85



Stronger in what way? All you can do with the above data is make certain assumptions, but draw no real conclusions as to which will protect better. Mobil 1 has a higher VI, but that is not necessarily better (or worse) from a wear protection stand point. It also could mean that it has more VII's in it propping up that VI number. We know that Castrol is mostly (at least 50%) PAO, whereas Mobil 1 has been Visom (Group III+) for many years now (it could be making it's way back to PAO though). This could mean that the Castrol may have better extreme low temperature performance, but usually most people won't ever test an oils' lower limits in the US anyway. Mobil 1 uses a calcium based detergent, and features boron and moly (IIRC), whereas Castrol uses less calcium with a bit of magnesium, and a titanium anti-wear additive.

But we do know for sure that both oils meet many of the same stringent specs, so they can and should be considered equals for the most part.

Buy whichever you like, both will perform very well (I have used them both myself interchangeably for many years).


According to the MSDS, M1 0w-40 is 50-60% PAO now (again).

Both are excellent products that meet basically all the same OEM performance specs. Performance should be essentially identical. Choose whichever you can get cheaper.

 

[K23Turbo]

Fan of both here. Currently running M1EP 5W30. Great oil. Wanna try Edge gold 5W30 next time.

 

[00Max00]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97

Stronger in what way? All you can do with the above data is make certain assumptions, but draw no real conclusions as to which will protect better. Mobil 1 has a higher VI, but that is not necessarily better (or worse) from a wear protection stand point. It also could mean that it has more VII's in it propping up that VI number. We know that Castrol is mostly (at least 50%) PAO, whereas Mobil 1 has been Visom (Group III+) for many years now (it could be making it's way back to PAO though). This could mean that the Castrol may have better extreme low temperature performance, but usually most people won't ever test an oils' lower limits in the US anyway. Mobil 1 uses a calcium based detergent, and features boron and moly (IIRC), whereas Castrol uses less calcium with a bit of magnesium, and a titanium anti-wear additive.

But we do know for sure that both oils meet many of the same stringent specs, so they can and should be considered equals for the most part.

Buy whichever you like, both will perform very well (I have used them both myself interchangeably for many years).


What makes you believe the Castrol is PAO? I don't see it published anywhere.

Viscosity(ASTM D445) @ 40c, M1 is 75 while Castrol is 79, both are the same @ 100c though. Why would you think Castrol may have better low temperature performance?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: 00Max00
Originally Posted By: il_signore97

Stronger in what way? All you can do with the above data is make certain assumptions, but draw no real conclusions as to which will protect better. Mobil 1 has a higher VI, but that is not necessarily better (or worse) from a wear protection stand point. It also could mean that it has more VII's in it propping up that VI number. We know that Castrol is mostly (at least 50%) PAO, whereas Mobil 1 has been Visom (Group III+) for many years now (it could be making it's way back to PAO though). This could mean that the Castrol may have better extreme low temperature performance, but usually most people won't ever test an oils' lower limits in the US anyway. Mobil 1 uses a calcium based detergent, and features boron and moly (IIRC), whereas Castrol uses less calcium with a bit of magnesium, and a titanium anti-wear additive.

But we do know for sure that both oils meet many of the same stringent specs, so they can and should be considered equals for the most part.

Buy whichever you like, both will perform very well (I have used them both myself interchangeably for many years).


What makes you believe the Castrol is PAO? I don't see it published anywhere.

Viscosity(ASTM D445) @ 40c, M1 is 75 while Castrol is 79, both are the same @ 100c though. Why would you think Castrol may have better low temperature performance?


I thought the made in Germany Castrol Edge was a PAO base oil as well.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 00Max00
Originally Posted By: il_signore97

Stronger in what way? All you can do with the above data is make certain assumptions, but draw no real conclusions as to which will protect better. Mobil 1 has a higher VI, but that is not necessarily better (or worse) from a wear protection stand point. It also could mean that it has more VII's in it propping up that VI number. We know that Castrol is mostly (at least 50%) PAO, whereas Mobil 1 has been Visom (Group III+) for many years now (it could be making it's way back to PAO though). This could mean that the Castrol may have better extreme low temperature performance, but usually most people won't ever test an oils' lower limits in the US anyway. Mobil 1 uses a calcium based detergent, and features boron and moly (IIRC), whereas Castrol uses less calcium with a bit of magnesium, and a titanium anti-wear additive.

But we do know for sure that both oils meet many of the same stringent specs, so they can and should be considered equals for the most part.

Buy whichever you like, both will perform very well (I have used them both myself interchangeably for many years).


What makes you believe the Castrol is PAO? I don't see it published anywhere.

Viscosity(ASTM D445) @ 40c, M1 is 75 while Castrol is 79, both are the same @ 100c though. Why would you think Castrol may have better low temperature performance?

On cold weather where I live Castrol 0W40 does not create any rattling sound from engine when you starting on -20 or similar temp. M1 has tendecy to creat that sound during cranking as soon as temp goes below 20 or 15 degrees, et least in my car. 0W30 was light years ahead of M1 in cold cranking. Too bad Castrol did not bring 0W30 in 5qt jugs.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: 00Max00


What makes you believe the Castrol is PAO? I don't see it published anywhere.

Viscosity(ASTM D445) @ 40c, M1 is 75 while Castrol is 79, both are the same @ 100c though. Why would you think Castrol may have better low temperature performance?



It's not a "belief", it is a fact. Although basestocks are generally considered proprietary information, there are ways to figure out what the oil is made of. Firstly, if you look at the MSDS sheet for the oil in question, you will find that there are chemical compounds listed there that correspond to PAO's. Castrol 0W40 is at least 50-60% PAO according to it's MSDS sheet. And now, as OVERKILL has pointed out, Mobil 1 is transitioning back to a majority PAO formulation as evidenced by it's most recent MSDS sheets. Mobil 1 0W40's published specs will likely change once the new formulation rolls out.

A second way of finding out if an oil has mostly PAO or ester basestock is by looking at the same oil in Germany (if it is sold there, which both of these 0W40's are). If it is labelled as a full synthetic, it must contain a majority of the above mentioned basestocks by law. Castrol 0W40 is listed as a full synthetic there, and Mobil 1 will likely now be as well. However, for the past several years, Mobil 1 was sold as a synthetic-technology oil, which is German marketing speak for Group III or III+ synthetic oil.

Also, about your other question, a there is no correlation between an oil's kinematic viscosity at 40 C (which is 104 F), and the oil's dynamic viscosity at sub-freezing temperatures. An oil's viscosity index is only determined by two points (40 C and 100 C kinematic viscosities), and is thus not accurate for gross extrapolations beyond those values. Just as an example, at -40 C, Mobil 1 lists a dynamic viscosity (MRV) value of 31,000 cP. This is thousands of times higher than at 100 C. A difference of a few cSt at 40 C is absolutely meaningless.