Well, it is true the dexos1 market is big, and maybe growing, it isn't required. At least not according to the owners manual for my 2013 Silverado. Mine clearly says dexos 1 or equivalent. So I have never worried if what I was using was on the approved list, which the oil I use is not. They claim dexos1 compliance, and that is just fine with me, as that is a good enough definition of "equivalent". I really could care less about the money changing hands behind the scene. Mobil pours gobs of money toward NASCAR for the right to slap "Official oil" all over their stuff. So what. Pennzoil, and whoever else, cracks open their wallet for the GM dexos approval thing. So what. It is all the same thing. And the world will still rotate tomorrow. Oh, and anyone how has ever worked retail knows that many time a product will kick back to a store for space on a shelf, just so you can lay your eyes on their product. It is how the world works. It all increases volume sales. You have to grease the skids. And GM's dexos thing is just one of the latest players to take advantage of it.
No more Pennzoil synthetics with dexos approval
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Originally Posted By: bigt61
Eventually even SuperTech synthetic will relent and pay the Dexos fee. It's just too big a market...and growing. What if Toyota did that? Or Ford? The average consumer would be paying for a lot of needless license fees.
It may be in a few years, there will be mostly just engine manufacturer-specific oil labels. The oil companies must pay for the dexos1 logo on the front, so if they omit the logo on some bottles, no fee; Put the logo on some other bottles, serve the GM population. Certainly all other car companies have licked their chops (xtra profits) looking at this GM extortion scheme.
Eventually even SuperTech synthetic will relent and pay the Dexos fee. It's just too big a market...and growing. What if Toyota did that? Or Ford? The average consumer would be paying for a lot of needless license fees.
It may be in a few years, there will be mostly just engine manufacturer-specific oil labels. The oil companies must pay for the dexos1 logo on the front, so if they omit the logo on some bottles, no fee; Put the logo on some other bottles, serve the GM population. Certainly all other car companies have licked their chops (xtra profits) looking at this GM extortion scheme.
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Originally Posted By: Bloodknights
I love Pennzoil products but I do have a few concerns and questions for u ,im currently using platinum 0w20 and its a great oil but I want to try out the ultra in that same grade but cant seem to find it anywhere and Walmart or any other retailer don't seem to carry it,so why are u guys advertising it if no one can buy it,i tried amazon and other sites online and says wont ship till one or two months?!?! other question I have is dexos 1,the tech sheet for platinum 0w20 says approved for gm but doesn't say that on the bottles,thank u in advance again I love your products
Hi Bloodknights – Glad to hear you're such a Pennzoil fan! Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology is available at many national and local retail locations – to find a retailer near you, please visit http://bit.ly/PennzoilLocations. Once you input your zip code into the search, you’ll see a special “We Carry ULTRA” icon designating the retail locations that specifically carry Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology. - The Pennzoil Team
I love Pennzoil products but I do have a few concerns and questions for u ,im currently using platinum 0w20 and its a great oil but I want to try out the ultra in that same grade but cant seem to find it anywhere and Walmart or any other retailer don't seem to carry it,so why are u guys advertising it if no one can buy it,i tried amazon and other sites online and says wont ship till one or two months?!?! other question I have is dexos 1,the tech sheet for platinum 0w20 says approved for gm but doesn't say that on the bottles,thank u in advance again I love your products
Hi Bloodknights – Glad to hear you're such a Pennzoil fan! Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology is available at many national and local retail locations – to find a retailer near you, please visit http://bit.ly/PennzoilLocations. Once you input your zip code into the search, you’ll see a special “We Carry ULTRA” icon designating the retail locations that specifically carry Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology. - The Pennzoil Team
Originally Posted By: SuzanneClerkin
Originally Posted By: Bloodknights
I love Pennzoil products but I do have a few concerns and questions for u ,im currently using platinum 0w20 and its a great oil but I want to try out the ultra in that same grade but cant seem to find it anywhere and Walmart or any other retailer don't seem to carry it,so why are u guys advertising it if no one can buy it,i tried amazon and other sites online and says wont ship till one or two months?!?! other question I have is dexos 1,the tech sheet for platinum 0w20 says approved for gm but doesn't say that on the bottles,thank u in advance again I love your products
Hi Bloodknights – Glad to hear you're such a Pennzoil fan! Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology is available at many national and local retail locations – to find a retailer near you, please visit http://bit.ly/PennzoilLocations. Once you input your zip code into the search, you’ll see a special “We Carry ULTRA” icon designating the retail locations that specifically carry Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology. - The Pennzoil Team
Walmart.com might be the best place to get a 5-quart jug of Ultra or quarts. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-Ultra-5W-30-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-qt./14958686 I've done it and its easy. ... I did the SuzanneClerkin web lookup thing and got 10 Pennzoil retailers in my area, and only one had Ultra. Rare stuff.
Originally Posted By: Bloodknights
I love Pennzoil products but I do have a few concerns and questions for u ,im currently using platinum 0w20 and its a great oil but I want to try out the ultra in that same grade but cant seem to find it anywhere and Walmart or any other retailer don't seem to carry it,so why are u guys advertising it if no one can buy it,i tried amazon and other sites online and says wont ship till one or two months?!?! other question I have is dexos 1,the tech sheet for platinum 0w20 says approved for gm but doesn't say that on the bottles,thank u in advance again I love your products
Hi Bloodknights – Glad to hear you're such a Pennzoil fan! Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology is available at many national and local retail locations – to find a retailer near you, please visit http://bit.ly/PennzoilLocations. Once you input your zip code into the search, you’ll see a special “We Carry ULTRA” icon designating the retail locations that specifically carry Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology. - The Pennzoil Team
Walmart.com might be the best place to get a 5-quart jug of Ultra or quarts. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-Ultra-5W-30-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-qt./14958686 I've done it and its easy. ... I did the SuzanneClerkin web lookup thing and got 10 Pennzoil retailers in my area, and only one had Ultra. Rare stuff.
It has been kind of strange that Pennzoil Ultra has this on-again, off-again dexos1 certification happening for about 3 years now.
Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
I am glad that I do not pay any royalty fee to GM because I use only Valvoline, which does not pay GM, in my Nissan, and I use Motorcraft Full Synthetic in my Mustang.
sorry to hurt your feelings.. Valvoline is also Dexos Certified as of like 3 months ago
I am glad that I do not pay any royalty fee to GM because I use only Valvoline, which does not pay GM, in my Nissan, and I use Motorcraft Full Synthetic in my Mustang.
sorry to hurt your feelings.. Valvoline is also Dexos Certified as of like 3 months ago
So if I use an oil that is not dexos1 certified (no official logo on the label) in my 2011 GM car, does that void the warranty? In other words, how are there "equivalent to dexos1" oils out there and how do I tell?
For reference, here is whats in my owners manual: "Use only engine oil
that is approved to the dexos
specification or an equivalent
engine oil of the appropriate
viscosity grade. Engine
oils approved to the dexos
specification will show the
dexos symbol on the container.
Failure to use the recommended
engine oil or equivalent can
result in engine damage not
covered by the vehicle warranty.
If you are unsure whether the
oil is approved to the dexos
specification, ask your service
provider.
For reference, here is whats in my owners manual: "Use only engine oil
that is approved to the dexos
specification or an equivalent
engine oil of the appropriate
viscosity grade. Engine
oils approved to the dexos
specification will show the
dexos symbol on the container.
Failure to use the recommended
engine oil or equivalent can
result in engine damage not
covered by the vehicle warranty.
If you are unsure whether the
oil is approved to the dexos
specification, ask your service
provider.
To answer your question. DEXOS is a GM recommendation for warranty. API SN/GF-5 is the warranty requirement.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
To answer your question. DEXOS is a GM recommendation for warranty. API SN/GF-5 is the warranty requirement.
Is dexos1 equivalent to SN/GF-5? dexos1 is a tougher requirement. I don't see how the owners manual wording allows SN/GF-5. If GM had an equivalent in mind, why didn't they say what it is?
To answer your question. DEXOS is a GM recommendation for warranty. API SN/GF-5 is the warranty requirement.
Is dexos1 equivalent to SN/GF-5? dexos1 is a tougher requirement. I don't see how the owners manual wording allows SN/GF-5. If GM had an equivalent in mind, why didn't they say what it is?
"Use of Substitute Engine Oils if
dexos is unavailable: In the event
that dexos approved engine oil is
not available at an oil change or for
maintaining proper oil level, you
may use substitute engine oil
displaying the API Starburst symbol
and of SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade.
Use of oils that do not meet the
dexos specification, however, may
result in reduced performance under
certain circumstances"
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants
Use only engine oil licensed to the dexos1 specfication, or equivalent,
of the proper SAE viscosity grade.
ILMA and the other industry groups laid out for the FTC how GM has engaged in deceptive practices with its marketing of dexos. The coalition said that GM is creating consumer confusion about their ability to choose an equivalent product without risking their warranty coverage. In an attempt to restrict sales of competing brands, they said that GM also falsely depicts competing brands of motor oil as inferior and potentially harmful to use even where those products meet dexos specifications. GM’s dexos website (http://gmdexos.com/) states:
Don’t be fooled by oils with claims on the back labels such as "meets", "complies with" or "is approved for use with" the dexos™ specification. Lookalikes or unlicensed products that don’t display the dexos™ icon and trademark on the front label simply don’t comply with the high performance and quality standards of dexos™.
The coalition also pointed out to the FTC that GM is using language on its website, its owners’ manuals, and its marketing materials that deliberately attempts to mislead car owners into believing that using anything other than officially licensed dexos motor oil can damage their engines and void their warranty. Other examples from GM’s dexos website (http://gmdexos.com/) state:
"dexos™ will be available at all GM dealerships starting in September 2010 and is required engine oil for GM vehicles starting with the 2011 model year.
Don’t take unnecessary risks with your power train warranty. Using engine oils other than dexos™ may result in damage to your engine that is not covered.
"These statements are creating confusion among consumers and pushing them into buying more expensive motor oil that is no better than less expensive alternatives made by ILMA members," Leiter commented. "The engines in GM’s 2011 cars are the same as last year, which run on ILSAC GF-4 oils."
Leiter added that it is apparent that consumers do not need to buy GM-licensed dexos motor oil to protect their engines when the automaker has given "exceptions" to large fleet accounts to keep using API-licensed products in their cars. ILMA and the other industry groups provided the FTC with documents from GM fleet account executives, questioning why these large fleet customers get a "pass" on dexos, while consumers are told that dexos is required for their vehicles.
ILMA and the industry groups told the FTC that GM’s dexos marketing campaign is a direct effort, in violation of the Lanham Act, to pressure consumers into believing that motor oils meeting API and other industry specifications are inferior and will damage their engines. The coalition said the immediate impact of these deceptive practices is to increase costs to consumers and limit consumer choice.
The coalition also said this type of deceptive marketing violates provisions of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibit companies from tying a warranty to the purchase of specific trademarked goods or services."
If the highlighted areas do not show that both GM consumers do not require DEXOS to satisfy warranty requirements and someone decided to use a preventive maintenance program as a revenue stream for GM.
dexos is unavailable: In the event
that dexos approved engine oil is
not available at an oil change or for
maintaining proper oil level, you
may use substitute engine oil
displaying the API Starburst symbol
and of SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade.
Use of oils that do not meet the
dexos specification, however, may
result in reduced performance under
certain circumstances"
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants
Use only engine oil licensed to the dexos1 specfication, or equivalent,
of the proper SAE viscosity grade.
ILMA and the other industry groups laid out for the FTC how GM has engaged in deceptive practices with its marketing of dexos. The coalition said that GM is creating consumer confusion about their ability to choose an equivalent product without risking their warranty coverage. In an attempt to restrict sales of competing brands, they said that GM also falsely depicts competing brands of motor oil as inferior and potentially harmful to use even where those products meet dexos specifications. GM’s dexos website (http://gmdexos.com/) states:
Don’t be fooled by oils with claims on the back labels such as "meets", "complies with" or "is approved for use with" the dexos™ specification. Lookalikes or unlicensed products that don’t display the dexos™ icon and trademark on the front label simply don’t comply with the high performance and quality standards of dexos™.
The coalition also pointed out to the FTC that GM is using language on its website, its owners’ manuals, and its marketing materials that deliberately attempts to mislead car owners into believing that using anything other than officially licensed dexos motor oil can damage their engines and void their warranty. Other examples from GM’s dexos website (http://gmdexos.com/) state:
"dexos™ will be available at all GM dealerships starting in September 2010 and is required engine oil for GM vehicles starting with the 2011 model year.
Don’t take unnecessary risks with your power train warranty. Using engine oils other than dexos™ may result in damage to your engine that is not covered.
"These statements are creating confusion among consumers and pushing them into buying more expensive motor oil that is no better than less expensive alternatives made by ILMA members," Leiter commented. "The engines in GM’s 2011 cars are the same as last year, which run on ILSAC GF-4 oils."
Leiter added that it is apparent that consumers do not need to buy GM-licensed dexos motor oil to protect their engines when the automaker has given "exceptions" to large fleet accounts to keep using API-licensed products in their cars. ILMA and the other industry groups provided the FTC with documents from GM fleet account executives, questioning why these large fleet customers get a "pass" on dexos, while consumers are told that dexos is required for their vehicles.
ILMA and the industry groups told the FTC that GM’s dexos marketing campaign is a direct effort, in violation of the Lanham Act, to pressure consumers into believing that motor oils meeting API and other industry specifications are inferior and will damage their engines. The coalition said the immediate impact of these deceptive practices is to increase costs to consumers and limit consumer choice.
The coalition also said this type of deceptive marketing violates provisions of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibit companies from tying a warranty to the purchase of specific trademarked goods or services."
If the highlighted areas do not show that both GM consumers do not require DEXOS to satisfy warranty requirements and someone decided to use a preventive maintenance program as a revenue stream for GM.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
...... motor oils meeting API and other industry specifications are inferior and will damage their engines. The coalition said the immediate impact of these deceptive practices is to increase costs to consumers and limit consumer choice.
I'd say those oils that don't say they meet dexos1 might be inferior. We know dexos1 is a higher foaming, deposits, NOACK, and wear standard than straight SN/GF-5. Yet I think GM marketing is totally misleading in saying that just because dexos1 tests weren't taken that the oil isn't good enough, as it might be.
...... motor oils meeting API and other industry specifications are inferior and will damage their engines. The coalition said the immediate impact of these deceptive practices is to increase costs to consumers and limit consumer choice.
I'd say those oils that don't say they meet dexos1 might be inferior. We know dexos1 is a higher foaming, deposits, NOACK, and wear standard than straight SN/GF-5. Yet I think GM marketing is totally misleading in saying that just because dexos1 tests weren't taken that the oil isn't good enough, as it might be.
I might have a well of black stuff bubbling out of the ground that might pass Dexos, and any number of tests...I can't claim that it does until it's tested, and really, it might well be better than any oil that has ever been made...a lot of mights and maybes...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I can't claim that it does until it's tested, and really, it might well be better than any oil that has ever been made...a lot of mights and maybes...
If I were heck bent on running an oil that had no dexos1 certification in a dexos1 vehicle, I'd probably look for a current A5/B5 5w-30 and/or one that had the old Vette spec. I suspect the A5/B5 is even overkill in comparison to dexos1.
I can't claim that it does until it's tested, and really, it might well be better than any oil that has ever been made...a lot of mights and maybes...
If I were heck bent on running an oil that had no dexos1 certification in a dexos1 vehicle, I'd probably look for a current A5/B5 5w-30 and/or one that had the old Vette spec. I suspect the A5/B5 is even overkill in comparison to dexos1.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
To answer your question. DEXOS is a GM recommendation for warranty. API SN/GF-5 is the warranty requirement.
in theory.. but not really.. oil doesn't even have to be API certified to maintain warranty as long as it meets API spec. AMSOIL signature series is a prime example.
To answer your question. DEXOS is a GM recommendation for warranty. API SN/GF-5 is the warranty requirement.
in theory.. but not really.. oil doesn't even have to be API certified to maintain warranty as long as it meets API spec. AMSOIL signature series is a prime example.
I have no problem with a reputable, name brand oil that claims dexos compliant while not officially on the approved list. The FTC also has standards regarding marketing products that don't actually meet what they claim. I use Schaeffer oil. I figure that they have this covered. Been in business since 1839, so I figure they are not going to risk messing things up for themselves.
This is really no different than what is done in the commercial diesel sector. Detroit for instance, claims that oil must meet their 93K218 spec. They have an "approved" list, but they make no qualms about a owner using most any CJ-4 oil. I think some folks just get a little too worried about stuff. Even if a dealer asked me what I was using for oil in my GM engine, I would just say that I use a dexos compliant oil and leave it at that. But I have yet to hear of a dealer actually using the dexos thing as a warranty buster. Out of all the many folks that have claimed they have had to have new rings, lifters, etc due to AFM related issues, I have yet to read where any of them were even asked about what oil they were using. Just embrace a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and one should be just fine.
This is really no different than what is done in the commercial diesel sector. Detroit for instance, claims that oil must meet their 93K218 spec. They have an "approved" list, but they make no qualms about a owner using most any CJ-4 oil. I think some folks just get a little too worried about stuff. Even if a dealer asked me what I was using for oil in my GM engine, I would just say that I use a dexos compliant oil and leave it at that. But I have yet to hear of a dealer actually using the dexos thing as a warranty buster. Out of all the many folks that have claimed they have had to have new rings, lifters, etc due to AFM related issues, I have yet to read where any of them were even asked about what oil they were using. Just embrace a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and one should be just fine.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I might have a well of black stuff bubbling out of the ground that might pass Dexos, and any number of tests...I can't claim that it does until it's tested, and really, it might well be better than any oil that has ever been made...a lot of mights and maybes...
bad thought process..
every manufacturer provides to the oil companies and blenders the specifications require to meet their specs. then that company can blend a formula to meet it.. they can test it. And if it meets the specs. they can say it meets it..
just because they don't submit for certification doesn't mean they don't know for sure.. they can't say it meets or exceeds without testing.. and they have the minimum requirements so they'll know..
I might have a well of black stuff bubbling out of the ground that might pass Dexos, and any number of tests...I can't claim that it does until it's tested, and really, it might well be better than any oil that has ever been made...a lot of mights and maybes...
bad thought process..
every manufacturer provides to the oil companies and blenders the specifications require to meet their specs. then that company can blend a formula to meet it.. they can test it. And if it meets the specs. they can say it meets it..
just because they don't submit for certification doesn't mean they don't know for sure.. they can't say it meets or exceeds without testing.. and they have the minimum requirements so they'll know..
Dexos is pretty much a sham anyway, right?
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Dexos is pretty much a sham anyway, right?
Not a sham, just a GM extortion scheme through market-consumer pressure. Its a very good spec, glad to see it exists. I would like to do a comparison between SN/GF-5/dexos1/ACEA tests based on the mountain of tests we see in popular Afton Chemical Spec Handbook click for link . I think Garak is right, in that dexos1 might not technically need to come into existence, if GM would have just said to use an oil that meets SN/GF-5/ACEA tests for their cars.
Dexos is pretty much a sham anyway, right?
Not a sham, just a GM extortion scheme through market-consumer pressure. Its a very good spec, glad to see it exists. I would like to do a comparison between SN/GF-5/dexos1/ACEA tests based on the mountain of tests we see in popular Afton Chemical Spec Handbook click for link . I think Garak is right, in that dexos1 might not technically need to come into existence, if GM would have just said to use an oil that meets SN/GF-5/ACEA tests for their cars.
On the warranty issues, I wouldn't want to be one of the people who had their bearings fail in lots of new GM 4-cylinders recently (or will fail). reference click for link
GM might just notice someone was using a non-dexos1 oil for an oil change or two and deny a fix for the occasional flawed engines, or flaws like this that surface once in a while.
GM might just notice someone was using a non-dexos1 oil for an oil change or two and deny a fix for the occasional flawed engines, or flaws like this that surface once in a while.
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
On the warranty issues, I wouldn't want to be one of the people who had their bearings fail in lots of new GM 4-cylinders recently (or will fail). reference click for link
GM might just notice someone was using a non-dexos1 oil for an oil change or two and deny a fix for the occasional flawed engines, or flaws like this that surface once in a while.
Except for the fact GM can not deny a warranty claim for not using a DEXOS "certified" oil.
On the warranty issues, I wouldn't want to be one of the people who had their bearings fail in lots of new GM 4-cylinders recently (or will fail). reference click for link
GM might just notice someone was using a non-dexos1 oil for an oil change or two and deny a fix for the occasional flawed engines, or flaws like this that surface once in a while.
Except for the fact GM can not deny a warranty claim for not using a DEXOS "certified" oil.
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