No more coal fired power for us.

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Originally Posted By: bigt61
Coal will slowly disappear everywhere. Natural gas is abundant, cheaper and burns much cleaner. Long before we run out of NG, we'll be on to fusion - which will be close to free electricity generation. That will be a worldwide game changer.


Yep. It will be a game changer. And here soon...

We've been ten years away from fusion power for 40 years now...
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


Recent articles have concluded that coal is not being killed off by the gov. or environmentalists but simply by the marketplace.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Natural gas is dirt cheap. There is a ton of it. I can't figure out why there are not more Natural Gas cars out there.

It seems to be limited to fleets, and there are very limited areas to fill up.


Because I'm sure that I am not the only one who thinks about the typical wheel-holding moron pumping high-pressure CNG into a car and just cringes!


Answer a question on natural gas vehicles: Is the gas tank liquid or gas. For propane its liquid. But for natural its not easy to liquify it (requires energy and refrigeration). If its a gas, how much can you easily fit in the gas tank. I know they do it, just wonder if its a liquid or gas.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I know they do it, just wonder if its a liquid or gas.


Natural gas powered vehicles use compressed gas. It takes a while to refuel them.

Look at the phase diagram for CH4 and you will see why.
 
Coal is nasty and good riddance. The sludge ponds of waste, coal dust for miners etc. Coal has gotten a pass for all of the harm on the environment and workers. We don't need it.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Donald
I know they do it, just wonder if its a liquid or gas.


Natural gas powered vehicles use compressed gas. It takes a while to refuel them.

Look at the phase diagram for CH4 and you will see why.


Using compressed NG also introduces energy density issues for vehicles. The tanks would have to be ~4X larger to maintain the same driving range as gasoline.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


The "weeniegreenies" work on a feel good ideology called the, "Precautionary Principle" which says if this might happen, let's do this, while dismissing any scientific basis for doing so, or without having any realistic scientific alternatives.

The "weeniegreenies" are ignorant and devoid of any energy education or knowledge of the physical principles of energy production.

Sources with high energy density, such as distributed nuclear reactors, is the answer until solar and wind plants can improve in terms of efficiency and lower cost.

An energy plan, in which you gradually switch over to other forms of energy generation, is the only way to approach energy demand.

Today, one cannot just say, "We will switch over immediately to wind and solar," because the efficiency, cost, and infrastructure is not there.

Ideology is one thing, scientific realism is another.
shocked2.gif



Wind in the Pac NW blows best at night. Demand is during the day mostly. No good batteries yet.

Infrastructure problems prevent adding in huge new generation facilities. People don't like ugly transmission lines whether they carry green or "dirty" electrons. Most electrons here are from hydropower with stored energy in reservoirs behind dams unlike wind.

Problem with converting coal plants to gas is the NIMBYs who oppose the gas pipelines.

Someone mentioned railroads going broke because they can't haul coal. Out west they're hauling oil tanker cars to port because we're too dumb to build oil pipelines.
 
So China will buy the coal cheap and all the greenies will ne fooled into placation.
 
Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


The "weeniegreenies" work on a feel good ideology called the, "Precautionary Principle" which says if this might happen, let's do this, while dismissing any scientific basis for doing so, or without having any realistic scientific alternatives.

The "weeniegreenies" are ignorant and devoid of any energy education or knowledge of the physical principles of energy production.

Sources with high energy density, such as distributed nuclear reactors, is the answer until solar and wind plants can improve in terms of efficiency and lower cost.

An energy plan, in which you gradually switch over to other forms of energy generation, is the only way to approach energy demand.

Today, one cannot just say, "We will switch over immediately to wind and solar," because the efficiency, cost, and infrastructure is not there.

Ideology is one thing, scientific realism is another.
shocked2.gif



Wind in the Pac NW blows best at night. Demand is during the day mostly. No good batteries yet.

Infrastructure problems prevent adding in huge new generation facilities. People don't like ugly transmission lines whether they carry green or "dirty" electrons. Most electrons here are from hydropower with stored energy in reservoirs behind dams unlike wind.

Problem with converting coal plants to gas is the NIMBYs who oppose the gas pipelines.

Someone mentioned railroads going broke because they can't haul coal. Out west they're hauling oil tanker cars to port because we're too dumb to build oil pipelines.


Candlewood Lake in CT is an example of a lake owned by the power company where they can pump water into the lake when there is excess electricity and let it run out via hydro-electric when they need power.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


Recent articles have concluded that coal is not being killed off by the gov. or environmentalists but simply by the marketplace.
Recent articles in your head.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Coal will slowly disappear everywhere. Natural gas is abundant, cheaper and burns much cleaner. Long before we run out of NG, we'll be on to fusion - which will be close to free electricity generation. That will be a worldwide game changer.


Yep. It will be a game changer. And here soon...

We've been ten years away from fusion power for 40 years now...
And the magic battery with the same "power per pound" as gasoline.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


The "weeniegreenies" work on a feel good ideology called the, "Precautionary Principle" which says if this might happen, let's do this, while dismissing any scientific basis for doing so, or without having any realistic scientific alternatives.

The "weeniegreenies" are ignorant and devoid of any energy education or knowledge of the physical principles of energy production.

Sources with high energy density, such as distributed nuclear reactors, is the answer until solar and wind plants can improve in terms of efficiency and lower cost.

An energy plan, in which you gradually switch over to other forms of energy generation, is the only way to approach energy demand.

Today, one cannot just say, "We will switch over immediately to wind and solar," because the efficiency, cost, and infrastructure is not there.

Ideology is one thing, scientific realism is another.
shocked2.gif

+1 I doubt the phony in the WH has even READ a science text, since we are "unaware" of any transcripts.
Probably a lot of "progressive history", though.
 
I was thinking this as well.

But you have to be careful with this approach as if your retention lake is not built and maintained:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


The "weeniegreenies" work on a feel good ideology called the, "Precautionary Principle" which says if this might happen, let's do this, while dismissing any scientific basis for doing so, or without having any realistic scientific alternatives.

The "weeniegreenies" are ignorant and devoid of any energy education or knowledge of the physical principles of energy production.

Sources with high energy density, such as distributed nuclear reactors, is the answer until solar and wind plants can improve in terms of efficiency and lower cost.

An energy plan, in which you gradually switch over to other forms of energy generation, is the only way to approach energy demand.

Today, one cannot just say, "We will switch over immediately to wind and solar," because the efficiency, cost, and infrastructure is not there.

Ideology is one thing, scientific realism is another.
shocked2.gif



Wind in the Pac NW blows best at night. Demand is during the day mostly. No good batteries yet.

Infrastructure problems prevent adding in huge new generation facilities. People don't like ugly transmission lines whether they carry green or "dirty" electrons. Most electrons here are from hydropower with stored energy in reservoirs behind dams unlike wind.

Problem with converting coal plants to gas is the NIMBYs who oppose the gas pipelines.

Someone mentioned railroads going broke because they can't haul coal. Out west they're hauling oil tanker cars to port because we're too dumb to build oil pipelines.


Candlewood Lake in CT is an example of a lake owned by the power company where they can pump water into the lake when there is excess electricity and let it run out via hydro-electric when they need power.
 
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Originally Posted By: Silk
New Zealand's largest power station is in our town, and in 2018 the last 2 coal burning generators are being shut down,


Here is our neighbourhood coal plant. It looks like yours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanticoke_Generating_Station



It would appear that Bruce really took up the slack from that plant, as the quote states:

Quote:
At full capacity (4000MW) with all eight generating units functioning, the station's annual electricity production had been as high as 24 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh), enough electricity to run nearly 2.5 million households.


It was shutdown around 2013, which aligns well with this (speaking of Bruce A&B):

Quote:
By year, the station (A and B combined) produced the following amounts of electricity:

2001 20.5 terawatt hours (TWh);
2003 24.5 TWh;
2004 (planned) 34 TWh.[3]
2007 35.47 TWh
2008 35.26 TWh[28]
2013 45 TWh which is about 30% of Ontario's production.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
After the weenies killed coal here they started in on gas pipelines, protesting their expansion and calling gas "another dirty fuel". Without pipeline capacity you can't run big gas plants. Of course, you CAN run a plant formerly fueled by coal on gas, which has stopped many a weenie from doing a victory dance.
One half bleep result of the wennie meddling in pipeline construction is a big city power plant south of here which has gas TRUCKED in to it 24/7. Gas, in tanker trucks, on the city streets, a NIMBY delight.


Recent articles have concluded that coal is not being killed off by the gov. or environmentalists but simply by the marketplace.


I linked in this post to a position paper from Greanpeace, on how they intend to drive coal out of Australia, and prevent any further coal mining taking place.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3783340/I'm_not_against_mining...I'm_a#Post3783340

They are prepared to spend $M in lawyers and disinformation to prevent them getting off the ground.

They are prepared to picket and demonise banks that fund these activities.

And they have not offered a single solution to what will happen when they get their wish.

If I had my way, we'd have a "world no coal day" (just like Earth Hour), where industry as a whole agrees to turn coal off for a 24 hour period.
 
Breeder reactors and self-regulating SWR's will be the norm in 20 years. These reactors provide about 500MW. NG is an in-betweener with about half the CO2 emissions of coal.
 
Thanks to the NIMBY and BANANA idiots, nuclear is pretty much a non-starter. The last nuclear plant in this country that was permitted in this country was permitted in 1976.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Thanks to the NIMBY and BANANA idiots, nuclear is pretty much a non-starter. The last nuclear plant in this country that was permitted in this country was permitted in 1976.


Duke power down in NC is building a circle bar W. A P 1000 plant. A new pressurized water design.

I was involved in proving out protective relay logic for these and the ones in china. PLC logic in the relay.
 
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Quote:

We've been ten years away from fusion power for 40 years now...


ditto the 'site of Pennsylvania clean coal plant' empty lot i've been driving by for 25 years.

There are powerful 'unreasonable' interests on both sides of this issue.
 
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