Newbie - Mobil Delvac 1 and Delvac 1300

[Terry]

I was speaking about Rotella T,15w-40 the cheaper version. Not the group III.

I certainly have not seen enough data, on the "syn" version of Rotella,5w-40 to address its performance in the field.

I will not be shy about relating my opinion,based on interpreting test data related to the performance of the group III version when I see enough of it.

Group III Rotella 5w-40 seems awful expensive (retail) for the formulation.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
Group III Rotella 5w-40 seems awful expensive (retail) for the formulation.

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$3.25 per qt is expensive? That's what a gallon jug from Wal-Mart works out to. Even the individual quart bottles are only $3.35.

[ December 20, 2002, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: XHVI ]

 

[bluedevils]

Actually, XHVI, the $12.83 a gallon at Wal-Mart the Rotella T Syn 5W40 works out to $3.2075 a quart - slightly better than $3.25

Terry, I'm curious to hear if you do believe the Rotella T Synthetic really is not good value at $3.20-3.35 qt.

XHVI, I am interested in the Rotella T and Rotella T Synthetic. As for the Syn, how durable do you believe it is, particularly in gasoline engines? I'm just trying to get a feel for how it might stack up to a Group IV syn (e.g. Mobil 1) for durability and performance beyond 5,000 miles.

Personally, I can't see paying $3+ a qt. for oil that can't/won't be run at least 5k miles, probably longer.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by bluedevils:
Actually, XHVI, the $12.83 a gallon at Wal-Mart the Rotella T Syn 5W40 works out to $3.2075 a quart - slightly better than $3.25

Terry, I'm curious to hear if you do believe the Rotella T Synthetic really is not good value at $3.20-3.35 qt.

XHVI, I am interested in the Rotella T and Rotella T Synthetic. As for the Syn, how durable do you believe it is, particularly in gasoline engines? I'm just trying to get a feel for how it might stack up to a Group IV syn (e.g. Mobil 1) for durability and performance beyond 5,000 miles.

Personally, I can't see paying $3+ a qt. for oil that can't/won't be run at least 5k miles, probably longer.

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Hey, I'm only on my first cup of coffee and you want me to do higher math?

If you look at the history behind Shell's XHVI base oil, it's easy to predict that Rotella T Syn will hold its own against a PAO oil in just about any situation. XHVI has a long history in Europe, where finished motor oils based on it have been sold for years as a synthetic--long before the Castrol/Group III debate surfaced in the US. When "Black Death" started surfacing in European car engines and the ACEA stepped up the oil standards to address the issue, there were only three base oils that blenders started mixing in with Group I to get the volatility down: PAO, XHVI, and Esso's ExxSyn, which is a slack wax isomerate just like Shell's XHVI.

Rotella T Synthetic is the first Shell oil blended for the North American market where Shell's European base oil technology has been employed. No other Shell oil blended in North America is based on XHVI.

As for how well it will perform, I'm planning to run it for at least 6000 miles in my 300M and then do an analysis. But in general, a turbo diesel application is going to be harder on an oil than a unblown gas engine, and in the oil analysis section some very good numbers have been posted for Rotella T Syn used in a VW TDI at 9000 miles.

 

[bluedevils]

I searched the oil analysis reports section and the 9,000 mile VW TDI result was the only one I saw. Sure would like to see a few more reports!

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by bluedevils:
I searched the oil analysis reports section and the 9,000 mile VW TDI result was the only one I saw. Sure would like to see a few more reports!

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So would I. But given the anti-Group III bias on this forum, you probably won't--at least not until I can post mine.

 

[MolaKule]

XHVI,

1. You seem to be saying that SRT is superior in both formulation and fleet results? Do you have data from fleet tests and spectroscopic analysis to support your claim that SRT is superior?

2. Why so anal about SRT? Philosophical reasons, like arguing for arguments sake?

Why not try other oils, do UOA, and determine what your engine and budget prefers!

Terry is correct. Most large OTC companies use the most economical additive packages in their formulations, along with ad hype, to push as much product as possible. I will have to say that at this point in time, Mobil appears to be the exception.

Fleet owners are looking at the bottom line, not necessarily least wear or better formulations. Now some of the trucking companies that own their own equipment, or want lower fuel consumption, or least tear down time, will usually spend a little more up front for the better lubricants.

[ December 20, 2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
1. You seem to be saying that SRT is superior in both formulation and fleet results? Do you have data from fleet tests and spectroscopic analysis to support your claim that SRT is superior?

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I think what I've said about Rotella T Syn is pretty self-evident on its face. I've not made any claims that it's superior in formulation or performance to any oil. I've merely tried to point out why I think it's a good oil based on my own research and limited experience using it. If you want to call that anal, fine. Whatever.

 

[MolaKule]

XHVI,

I am not trying to be arduous, I was just curious what you based your premises on.

I don't think anyone is dismissing Group III as a viable base oil.
If there is a bias against Group III (and not just on this forum), and I think it's justified because:
1. of the Castrol/Mobil fiasco, (this is a no-spin zone)
2. insistence on calling Group III a synthetic when it isn't, (I know, we're still debating that topic)
3. cost.

For point three, most people feel that Group III is a costly dino (unjustifiably costly), so why bother? i.e, why not go (jump ahead) to a full synth (PAO and ester) or a good blend and avoid the high cost of a wanna-be-synthetic?

 

[Terry]

Bluedevils, You are correct the price at Wally world has dropped from the initial $17.89 or so per gallon.

As far as value for the money I think it depends on testing results. Since it is primarily designed for HDD, diesels the add pack will probably skimp on FM adds.That could impact a gasoline engine user or someone that wants a universal oil.

If it tests well with UOA I'd be recommending its use just the way I do with products that I see working well.

I really only have one bias and that is "bang for the buck" when it comes to my customers.

XHVI, as far as gas vs diesels and being hard on oil, I find from the tests I interpret that gasline engines are much more hard on oil than the diesel engine,turbo or not. Most of that comes from the lack of solvency remaining in reformed gasoline today. Of course a turbo or Supercharged gasoline engine will cook oil faster.

I anxiously await results of testing on the GrpIII Rotella product. Hopefully shared here.

 

[MolaKule]

Most diesels have large(er) sump capacities than do gasoline engines which is one reason why the latter is so tough on oils. Case in point- Nissans and Toyotas.

 

[MolaKule]

"XHVI has a long history in Europe, where finished motor oils based on it have been sold for years as a synthetic--long before the Castrol/Group III debate surfaced in the US. When "Black Death" started surfacing in European car engines and the ACEA stepped up the oil standards to address the issue, there were only three base oils that blenders started mixing in with Group I to get the volatility down: PAO, XHVI, and Esso's ExxSyn, which is a slack wax isomerate just like Shell's XHVI."

The one thing I noticed was that you seem to be leaving out esters in your discussion.

Even if XHVI was cloaked in Europe for years as a synthetic, it still doesn't follow that it is the correct definition for a base. This simply shows what advertising hype, proselytizing, and repeating phrases doe to the public psyche.

I would like to remind people that synthetic fluids, their processes and definitions, occurred long before XHVI came onto the scene. So the proper definition of synthetics existed. Some have attempted to change that definition for marketing gain, IMHO.

[ December 20, 2002, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
XHVI, as far as gas vs diesels and being hard on oil, I find from the tests I interpret that gasline engines are much more hard on oil than the diesel engine,turbo or not. Most of that comes from the lack of solvency remaining in reformed gasoline today. Of course a turbo or Supercharged gasoline engine will cook oil faster.

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I'm always willing to learn, and I guess I just assumed a diesel (especially a turbo diesel) would be harder on the oil because of soot and sulphur. Would it be fair to say that both are equally tough on an oil, but in different ways? By that I mean a diesel is harder on an oil in ways a gas engine wouldn't be, and a gas engine is harder on an oil in ways a diesel wouldn't be.

 

[Bio-T]

I have an 00 Mazda 626 that uses less than 4 quarts to fill with filter change. I personally consider anything less than 5-6 Quart sump capacity small. I have two trucks that have a 15Qt capacity and consider this adequate for the vehicle, both diesels. I love them until oil change time.

 

[bluedevils]

vetteman, I like the 626 in general but that late '90s-early'00s 626 body style wasn't exactly a looker! I hope you have the V6/manual trans combo.

 

[dkcase]

quote:

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what supporting data besides Shell marketing data do YOU have to support your theory that Rotella is a satisfactory oil ?

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I was astounded to find this quote in an older post above.
It was part of an exchange... but to suggest that Rotella oil is not a satisfactory oil...whoa...

Not the best... not superior.... not even satisfactory.. ?

 

[Terry]

dkcase, I agree my language was not accurate,"satisfactory" was not the proper word to use.
"Superior" is much more to the point in the context of this exchange.

Keen eye.

Note the grp III based 5w-40 Shell product is priced back at $18 a gallon at Wally Land once again.

 

[Bio-T]

bluedevils,

As luck would have it I have the 4 cyl with auto. It has been trouble free so far, but I stay off Edmunds board as I don't want to see all the problems. I want to be surprised when they happen. Don't worry, if a lemon is built, I will buy it. I don't analyize the oil as it is really low mileage per year. When ever I drive it I always RL it getting on the interstate ect. I did get the spoiler and alum. wheels, so looks aren't the worst.