New test Amsoil oil 5W-40 CJ-4 - Failure leaders

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: buster
The best test of all I guess is real world fleet testing.


In some ways yes, but expensive, time consuming, many variables out of direct control....we need to realize ALL testing has error, all testing has weaknesses.....but that doesn't mean you don't do it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: buster
The best test of all I guess is real world fleet testing.


Cue Doug Hillary

 

[Steve S]

I have dealt with fleet managers they are mind blowing. They can tell you the best, then the best value for their money. And more important is what really works

 

[ottotheclown]

Amsoil pays them for the results makes it really something that just might be a tad bit slanted.. ME THINKS

 

[mechtech2]

Pablo - Question:
There is a drop in viscosity from fuel dilution with the tested oils.
They test 2 and 4%.
But they call this 'shear' from fuel dilution.
Is it simple viscosity thinning or shear?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Pablo - Question:
There is a drop in viscosity from fuel dilution with the tested oils.
They test 2 and 4%.
But they call this 'shear' from fuel dilution.
Is it simple viscosity thinning or shear?


If you look at the graph, first section is virgin, second is after the Orban testing, 3rd is with 2% fuel and Orban testing, 4th with 4% fuel and Orban testing. They don't call fuel dilution shear. They call it shear after fuel dilution THEN testing. So the viscosity loss in the last two sections is from both.

Quote:
AMSOIL Premium Diesel Oils resist viscosity loss
from both shearing forces and fuel dilution to maintain their
protective film strengths, providing superior protection to all diesel engines.

 

[buster]

There is nothing wrong with the test, but some things to keep in mind.

Everyone is out of spec @ 5% fuel dilution.

Everyone is well within stay in grade after the shear test.

Essentially no shear means pretty bad fuel economy.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I have seen Amsoil hold up pretty darn well in smaller diesels, but it didn't really get the job done too well in my '06 Cummins ISX (with bypass). I ran it (DEO 15w40 CI-4) for several UOA's and changed it out 4 times. My wear numbers moved into abnormal at just over 20,000 miles on the oil each time (Cummins recommended OCI is 25,000 miles on the ISX). Since then, I have been using a 15w40 CJ-4 40% synthetic blend offering from a local oil supplier, under their label and blended by Warren, and have gotten way lower wear numbers across the board in the same time on oil. True, the viscosity does drop a little more with this other brand in the same time (still in spec), but there is less evident wear going on internally. I find so-called tests to be less than telling of what is really going on in a working engine in the real world. Makes for interesting reading though.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Pablo - Question:
There is a drop in viscosity from fuel dilution with the tested oils.
They test 2 and 4%.
But they call this 'shear' from fuel dilution.
Is it simple viscosity thinning or shear?


Isn't 4% considered serious? I can't imagine anyone running around with it that high.

 

[Johnny]

We probably did it for years when everything was using carbs and unregulated injection pumps.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
We probably did it for years when everything was using carbs and unregulated injection pumps.


And we were changing oil at 3k-5k intervals as well!

 

[jaj]

I'm a little baffled by the Amsoil report - it's impressive for sure to see how their product stands up under long usage. But, they say in the report that they themselves recommend the oil be changed at the manufacturer's recommended change intervals.

I'd be much more impressed with a report like that at the manufacturer's recommended OCI, which presumably is what the 90-cycle test duplicates. The 180-cycle test, as impressive as it is, only serves to muddy the waters about what the test actually means.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

They recommend the oil be changed at the manufacturer's recommended change interval--unless oil analysis is used and shows the oil still suitable for continued use.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Amsoil pays them for the results makes it really something that just might be a tad bit slanted.. ME THINKS

"independent" labs can't afford to be biased by who pays them for testing, as they rapidly lose their reputation.

I'm sure that the labs gave results that could be verified by another independent. And I'm sure that the data has been slanted to best effect. Maybe more than 5 oils were tested, who knows.

The results are as they are, and demonstrate that the oil in question performed significantly better than the listed peers.

That's legit.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: jaj
I'm a little baffled by the Amsoil report - it's impressive for sure to see how their product stands up under long usage. But, they say in the report that they themselves recommend the oil be changed at the manufacturer's recommended change intervals.


Had a discussion with Mobil a few years ago with my 4Runner. I asked them about 0W-40, and how long I could run it.

"Manufacturer's OCI"

I pointed out that they have way more than that in BMW/Merc, and that Mobil used to advertise M1 as 40k km protection.

When they realised that my vehicle was out of warranty, and that I was really asking about their product, they said 12 months or 40,000km

Amsoil would be silly telling everyone in the world to go silly.

Originally Posted By: jaj
I'd be much more impressed with a report like that at the manufacturer's recommended OCI, which presumably is what the 90-cycle test duplicates. The 180-cycle test, as impressive as it is, only serves to muddy the waters about what the test actually means.


I disagree.

That's where they are giving the customer with non main stream needs/wants/interests a hint of what's available.

Remember, they all made the double length test in grade.

 

[Hitzy]

It's a shear test, nothing more, not a wear test, not a "which protects better test", says one thing only about the oils tested. No TBN listed, no additive breakdown, just shear stability in adverse conditions.
All oils passed and stayed in grade running double the API requirement. They all basically stayed in grade with 2% fuel dilution which is great, and one might reasonably see that in the real world. 4% seems excessive to me, but I don't own backhoe's and bulldozers.
At the end of the day, Amsoil is nearly double the cost of the other oils, and this test is not much of a selling point unless you need an oil that can stay in grade with fuel dilution.

 

[sprintman]

'TFOUT is flawed'. Got the data to back that up??

 

[buster]

Yes, there was a bit thread on here about it. It's not a good test for comparing different oils with different chemistry. I'll try and find the link.

 

[BigBird57]

Ditto snakyjake! I use Amsoil as well. The only gig is the MLM. I am a preffered customer and I can get products to the door in two days. If everyone would get on board with the extended drain intervals we could reduce our dependance on imported oil and reduce our waste stream. GM with the OLM systems are set up for 10k or one year. This is with regular oil. The average OLM alarms at 8700 miles. The 3000 mile oil change is a marketing myth and amounts to fraud on the motoring public. Just my .02$

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: BigBird57
Ditto snakyjake! I use Amsoil as well. The only gig is the MLM. I am a preffered customer and I can get products to the door in two days. If everyone would get on board with the extended drain intervals we could reduce our dependance on imported oil and reduce our waste stream. GM with the OLM systems are set up for 10k or one year. This is with regular oil. The average OLM alarms at 8700 miles. The 3000 mile oil change is a marketing myth and amounts to fraud on the motoring public. Just my .02$
If you look up via the BITOG uoa postings not many Amsoil users run Amsoil to its maximun potential. Even more interesting used oil is recycled ,burned as feul etc. Tell me for each gallon of oil used how many gallons of gasoline or diesel are burned? Motor oil isn't going to make a dent in our need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.