New duramax vs new Cummins

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan

That's one of the most interesting things I've heard. Is this exclusive to class 8 rigs, or all diesel trucks? On my F250, I'm completely emissions deleted and now they're emissions testing in Houston, about 90 miles from me.


GM, Ford, & Dodge all played that game in '07. The deadline for mandatory DPF on all diesel engines was 01/01/07, But the EPA goes by the manufacturing date of the engine not the truck.

We (both have '06 trucks) only have/had EGR & Catalyst, Did you completely remove the EGR & cooler? All they do is visual & smoke opacity test.

 

[Fordtrucktexan]

Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan

That's one of the most interesting things I've heard. Is this exclusive to class 8 rigs, or all diesel trucks? On my F250, I'm completely emissions deleted and now they're emissions testing in Houston, about 90 miles from me.


GM, Ford, & Dodge all played that game in '07. The deadline for mandatory DPF on all diesel engines was 01/01/07, But the EPA goes by the manufacturing date of the engine not the truck.

We (both have '06 trucks) only have/had EGR & Catalyst, Did you completely remove the EGR & cooler? All they do is visual & smoke opacity test.


Removed the EGR cooler and catalytic converter. EGR valve itself is still in place.

 

[440Magnum]

The Class-8 manufacturers were already more-or-less set up to do this, since buyers could pick Cummins, Cat, Detroit, etc. powerplants in most cases. Ford, Dodge, and GM really are wedded to their own drivelines and (even if they wanted to) it would be much harder to make the truck chassis capable of accepting a variety of engines from different manufacturers.

I still can't believe that Cat walked away from the on-highway truck engine market altogether when the emissions rules came down. That was ballsy, and of course they can still play in the "kit truck" world. But you gotta wonder how that's going to affect them long-term. I gotta think these loopholes will close gradually, and meanwhile Cummins, Paccar, MB, and the others are figuring out the new technology and will have a big head start.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
Removed the EGR cooler and catalytic converter. EGR valve itself is still in place.


Shouldn't be to hard to fab-up a fake converter., If you had to.
I could not find anything about Houston doing diesel emissions testing, You got me concerned yesterday, If Houston is doing it....DFW will be next. Do you have any info on this?

 

[Fordtrucktexan]

Sorry - no info to post other than what I've read on the Facebook diesel pages. Numerous people posting from around this area about not passing emissions, and even some saying dealers refused to take their trucks in on trade alltogether due to being deleted. Couple of hot shot guys on there posted about getting ticketed by DPS for having altered emissions, but also admitted that their trucks black-smoked as well. One posted that he received a ticket for emitting smoke that stayed in their air for more than ten seconds.

That's what has me wondering, I'm running a tune that does emit a 'haze' on hard acceleration. Think it's about time to flash back to stock.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
The Class-8 manufacturers were already more-or-less set up to do this, since buyers could pick Cummins, Cat, Detroit, etc. powerplants in most cases. Ford, Dodge, and GM really are wedded to their own drivelines and (even if they wanted to) it would be much harder to make the truck chassis capable of accepting a variety of engines from different manufacturers.

I still can't believe that Cat walked away from the on-highway truck engine market altogether when the emissions rules came down. That was ballsy, and of course they can still play in the "kit truck" world. But you gotta wonder how that's going to affect them long-term. I gotta think these loopholes will close gradually, and meanwhile Cummins, Paccar, MB, and the others are figuring out the new technology and will have a big head start.


Cat is coming around. They are producing some vocational trucks with their engines in them, but when you dig a little into it, the base engine they are using its the Maxxforce style engine that Navistar has.

You are right in some of your contention regarding engines and trucks. But the pickup OEM's could do the same thing with their proprietary engines. Take GM, just provide a factory built kit truck that has a wiring harness to allow instillation of a pre-emission Duramax diesel. Ford, could do the same and allow the user to install a pre-emission Power Stroke. It is realistic. Just the pickup OEM's have not made any moves to even consider this. But since the general public is not aware of the nuances that exist in government regulations, and have not bugged the OEM's to do such a thing, it stands to reason that the pickup OEM's have not considered this.

The EPA and regulations do not specify the class of the truck regarding this. It can be a class 1 thru a class 8.

 

[Nate1979]

How long is this loop hole going to last?

 

[TiredTrucker]

As long as folks read it I guess.

 

[supton]

It'll last until someone in Congress gets a bug about it. Given the low amount of sales / low visibility, it could last a long time. Nuclear vs coal power plants, cars, hybrids... lots of visibility. Big rigs? Eh...

I'd say, if you could keep visibible smoke to an absolute minimum (across all doing this), if not invisible, and perhaps not advertise how it's flying under the radar... it might last a long time.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

If I needed a 1-ton truck occasionally but knew I wasn't going to tow hard with it day in and day out, I'd get a Ram 3500 with the 392 gasser. Yeah, gas mileage will suck... but the total life-cycle cost of a gasser wins big-time (especially with diesel more expensive than gasoline!) when the duty cycle is light or infrequent.


Well diesel being more expensive than gas, for the general public, that is true. I just filled my semi truck in Lasalle, IL at the Flying J tonight. Pump price was $3.16. I got $1.30 discount, at the pump, when I fueled. My cost for the fill up was $1.86 a gallon. I filled the night before there and got $1.18 a gallon discount. Nope, no grocery store discount card kind of thing. This has been typical of discounts I have been getting commercially since fuel prices started heading into the basement. For the last 3 weeks, my average cost for diesel has been roughly $2.03 a gallon. And I typically fill 100+ gallons at a time. I go thru just under 20,000 gallons of diesel a year.

Wanted to put that out there for perspective. The fuel is not anywhere near the cost that the average consumer is paying. Commercial accounts are getting royal discounts on diesel. The average consumer is getting nailed. This ought to raise some eyebrows.



Very interesting about diesel fuel discounts. I sort of have been wondering why truckers haven't been complaining about the cost of diesel relative to gasoline. Usually they're very vocal about fuel cost.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
Sorry - no info to post other than what I've read on the Facebook diesel pages. Numerous people posting from around this area about not passing emissions, and even some saying dealers refused to take their trucks in on trade alltogether due to being deleted. Couple of hot shot guys on there posted about getting ticketed by DPS for having altered emissions, but also admitted that their trucks black-smoked as well. One posted that he received a ticket for emitting smoke that stayed in their air for more than ten seconds.

That's what has me wondering, I'm running a tune that does emit a 'haze' on hard acceleration. Think it's about time to flash back to stock.



It is really dependent on the regulations for particular areas. Around here the only emissions test for diesel pickups is that they can't smoke at idle. My buddy's Duramax that is deleted, straight piped, and EFI live tuned passed no problem. It seems kind of silly to me because a truck can pass this test then with the push of a button blow smoke all the way down the road. The guys who "roll coal" are the ones who keep giving diesels a bad name and ruining it for everyone else. Keep blowing smoke on those Prius drivers and somehow diesel emissions standards get stricter.

I have heard rumors that there will be a DPF inspection in the near future. This is where they would look under the vehicle to see that the can is there along with a tail pipe test for soot. This is similar to the cat converter inspection on gasoline cars where they look under the vehicle. Some states may already do this.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker


You are right in some of your contention regarding engines and trucks. But the pickup OEM's could do the same thing with their proprietary engines. Take GM, just provide a factory built kit truck that has a wiring harness to allow instillation of a pre-emission Duramax diesel. Ford, could do the same and allow the user to install a pre-emission Power Stroke. It is realistic. Just the pickup OEM's have not made any moves to even consider this. But since the general public is not aware of the nuances that exist in government regulations, and have not bugged the OEM's to do such a thing, it stands to reason that the pickup OEM's have not considered this.

The EPA and regulations do not specify the class of the truck regarding this. It can be a class 1 thru a class 8.


The pickup OEMs sell to the same market that buys new cars. "Newer is better" has been their mantra for SO long that they will never, NEVER, break that image. The idea to offer a kit truck that would accept an older engine would never make it into the boardroom, let alone get out of the boardroom and into production.

The manufacturers that sell working commercial trucks are far more motivated by practical questions that their buyers live or die by- does it haul, will it last, will it drive the buyer bankrupt with fuel and maintenance costs?