Natural gas generator
- Thread starter mobilnissan1991
- Start date
If you buy motorcycle oil it comes with MORE FRICTION characteristics. Why would you want to do that to a Generator or any other engine besides a motorcycle where it's needed? And just because a Motorcycle oil meets an old API spec doesn't mean it's ideal for your generator. That's another reason WHY manufacturers create their own specs. Specs or not I learned from experience there are real differences & putting motorcycle oil that comes with more friction is not ideal for other engines.
I'll state it again... Don't run oil labeled as Motorcycle oil in anything other than a Wet Clutch Motorcycle. There are too many other option to choose from anyways & the cycle oil is usually priced higher to boot but that is not the main reason.
Interesting. So Mobil 1 V-Twin motorcycle oil meets or exceeds API SJ (exactly what the OP is looking for), and says "Consistent power due to reduced frictional losses" yet this would be unacceptable for his use? How would he know that just by looking at what's on the container or their website?
You also note that manufacturers create their own specs, so what specs does Briggs have for this engine that he should look for?
All of this is relevant to me as I also have a natural gas standby generator.
dnewton3
Staff member
Many, if not most, shared-sump motorcycles call for JASO MA or MA2 lubes. There was a time when some of the Rotella lubes were specifically stated to meet those specs (tho not licensed), right on the PDS from SOPUS. And yet the Rotella products also met many API specs at the time as well. I ran Rotella conventional 15w-40 in several of my motorcycles (GL1800s; Victory 106/6) over two decades; never had a problem. I've also run that same lube in my diesel tractors with no issues. I've run it in some of my older cars with no problems. It's very important for a shared-sump clutch to not have too much moly; makes them slip. But using a MC rated lube in a normal engine means nothing to the engine. Hence, I think the whole "don't use MC oil in a non-shared sump engine" is an over-hyped concern with no basis in reality.
There are some companies out there that make NG specific lubes, but I don't think it's worth the extra effort and cost to buy them.
The B&S engine in this application, while it may be flat tappet, runs either at 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm; not exactly high engine speeds. And the valve spring pressures are fairly low in these modern OPE engines. If you've ever had the opportunity to push on the valves in one of these OPE engines, the spring pressures are quite low; you can easily push on them with your thumb. Therefore I think the "need" for high ZDDP in these applications is sort of overblown. It's not like this is a solid-lifter flat-tappet engine with a lopey high-lift cam we're talking about here .... Just because your granddaddy's garage built flat-tappet hot-rod 396 Chevelle or 427 Galaxie needed really high ZDDP, doesn't mean this application does.
You can run a MC specific oil in the B&S engine and it will be fine.
You can run a modern diesel rated product and it will also be fine.
It's also OK to run any modern PCMO that meets the specs.
Given that we don't know where the OPs mother is located, I'd just have to guess and say that if it's LA like he is, cold starts are not an issue.
There are some companies out there that make NG specific lubes, but I don't think it's worth the extra effort and cost to buy them.
The B&S engine in this application, while it may be flat tappet, runs either at 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm; not exactly high engine speeds. And the valve spring pressures are fairly low in these modern OPE engines. If you've ever had the opportunity to push on the valves in one of these OPE engines, the spring pressures are quite low; you can easily push on them with your thumb. Therefore I think the "need" for high ZDDP in these applications is sort of overblown. It's not like this is a solid-lifter flat-tappet engine with a lopey high-lift cam we're talking about here .... Just because your granddaddy's garage built flat-tappet hot-rod 396 Chevelle or 427 Galaxie needed really high ZDDP, doesn't mean this application does.
You can run a MC specific oil in the B&S engine and it will be fine.
You can run a modern diesel rated product and it will also be fine.
It's also OK to run any modern PCMO that meets the specs.
Given that we don't know where the OPs mother is located, I'd just have to guess and say that if it's LA like he is, cold starts are not an issue.
Last edited:
JHZR2
Staff member
Agree. I think there’s a difference between coefficient of friction on a wet clutch, and the use of an oil for hydrodynamic lubrication.
It better than wiping cam lobes.
using 80 grit sandpaper vs 800 is better than being un-sanded... One eye is better than being blind...
Still being than wiping cam lobes running.
dnewton3
Staff member
fantastic said:
Sir, you are conflating, and therefore confusing, the issues.
In those links you provide above, they each clearly are indicating that normal PCMO products would be not good for use in a shared sump system. I agree 100% with that premise.
But, you're taking it a step further in the opposite direction; you're saying it's bad to run a MC rated oil in a non-shared-sump engine, because of "friction modifiers". That is a gross misunderstanding of the issues at hand. Not one of those links you provided even discusses the use of MC lubes in normal engines. You took liberties in implying that; and that's not OK. Nowhere in those three links does it say it's unsafe to run a MC lube in a normal engine. In fact, as far as the engine itself, there's not anything to make us believe that the air cooled v-twin in the generator is really much different than an air cooled engine in a motorcycle (clutch/trans aside).
MC oils do not have chemistry added to increase friction for shared sump applications. What they have is LESS of the friction reducers common in typical engine applications with no shared sump. Primarily, moly was the offending element that caused clutch slippage. It's not that the MC lubes have more of something; they have less FMs so that the clutches won't slip. But IN NO WAY does that make the lube unsatisfactory for use in the engines themselves.
THERE IS NO REASON YOU CANNOT RUN A MC LUBE IN A NORMAL LOW-TECH ENGINE, as long as the vis is appropriate for the temp range. I would agree that running a MC lube in a modern GDI engine may be a concern if the LSPI is not addressed by the lube. But that's not the conversation we're having here; we're discussing a low-tech air cooled B&S engine in a generator.
The flat tappet issue is moot because these OPE engines do not run high valve spring pressures.
The "shared sump" concern is moot, because MC lubes are safe for low-tech (OPE type) engines.
Your links that you provide DO NOT IN ANY WAY back up your claim; you are contorting the issues and attempting to extract information that does not exist in those links. You are assuming that because one should not use a non-MC lube in a shared sump engine, that the reverse is also true; but it's not.
As I said before, a good example of a JASO MA/MA2 applicable lube would be the Rotella examples; they were acceptable for use in shared sump applications, but they were designed/marketed for HDEO "normal" engine applications, and often carried API spark-ignition approvals. Here is a link to T4 15w-40:
you can clearly see that they recommend the lube for many applications, including MA/MA2 (shared sump) and also API SN.
Here is the T6 variant; also showing MA/MA2 as well as many API applications
Here is the Mobil 1 motorcycle oil; it specifically calls out MA/MAs as well as SN from API.
PdsDetailsPage
Mobil 1™ Racing 4T is an advanced full synthetic technology designed for four-stroke motorcycle engines.
www.mobil.com
PdsDetailsPage
Mobil 1™ Racing 4T is an advanced full synthetic technology designed for four-stroke motorcycle engines.
www.mobil.com
I 100% object to your assertion that MC lubes are bad for non-shared sump engines; that's hogwash. Any MC lube marketed for shared sump MA/MA2 applications that ALSO carries an API license/recommendation would be fine for ANY engine application requiring that API standard.
Last edited:
Agreed, since it is after all a shared sump. These engines use the same oil in both, how would anyone get around the fact that the oil is also used for engine lubrication?
So this happens in every shared sump engine?
Mental gymnastics?
I stand corrected...
Motorcycle's should use motorcycle oil if it's a shared sump. AND so long as the cycle oil meets API specification for your equipment then it's safe to run. I was misinformed. I assumed that it worked both ways.
If Super Tech Motorcycle oil has the correct API specification for the generator it can absolutely be used. I did some quick calling to a few of my sources & they confirmed this is true.
However, I still believe that motorcycle oil can be more expensive than a Full synthetic PCMO off the shelf so there would be little reason to use cycle oil over a PCMO for a generator.
It was my way of saying "Of course using motorcycle oil in a generator is better than damaged camshaft". But I understand that I could have worded it better for others to understand.
She lives half an hour from the Gulf, very mild winters and excruciating summers. This summer was the worst I can recall in my 32 years.
Ill run either the Vanguard 15W50 or M1 VTwin 20w50. The Amsoil heavy duty CI-4 15W40 is another option.
might as well just use what they recommend. its not like its a piece of machinery that holds 10 gallons of lube oil.
alternatively Valvoline has a Nat Gas specific engine oil in ther Premium Blue line but it is available in 15w40.
More likely 3600RPM, from what I've seen you mostly only see 1800RPM with large generators.
The latest CK-4 Diesel rating includes prior CI-4 rating.
