NAPA Platinum?

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If you're an engineer then you should have no problem understanding this. Maybe you don't quite understand that if an oil filter is 99% @ 20 microns then it's even more efficient at larger particle sizes. If you can accept that 20.001 microns is larger than 20 microns, then when Fram says the filter is "99% > 20 microns" they are saying it will essentially catch 99 out of 100 particles that are 20.001 microns and larger. To me, you can say it's "99% @ 20 microns or larger".


I also have no problem understanding some marketing doofus could take the sum total of all larger particle testing, call that 99% of all particles averaging in the actual 20 micron figure with the rest, and get away with it by using ">".

By the way there are also 1,700A jump starters on the market containing 170A peak instantaneous discharge AGM batteries and no pulse circuitry. Do you believe those figures too?


Marketing doofus? Really? 35 yr ASE master tech, mechanical engineer, repair shop owner, internationally known technical trainer doofus? You sound like a democrat now, cant make your argument so you resort to personal attacks? Would you like to visit our engineering labs and actually learn about filtration? The trips on me.


Where you the one who wrote the ">" ad copy? No? Then that remark was not intended for you.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Once a skeptic, always a skeptic. No hope, believe what you want. Go buy some 50% @ 20 micron filters and tell yourself they're great.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Once a skeptic, always a skeptic. No hope, believe what you want. Go buy some 50% @ 20 micron filters and tell yourself they're great.

The more important question...

Does it REALLY matter....? My Honda, based on the "POOR" factory oil filter, should have died many years ago.

IT DIDN'T...

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
...I'd sure like to see Engineer20's diploma.

It's probably from Dumb [censored] U.

Why do say that? Just because he hand tightened the oil drain bolt with his diy oil change? Anyone would think that's correct, even an engineer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Once a skeptic, always a skeptic. No hope, believe what you want. Go buy some 50% @ 20 micron filters and tell yourself they're great.

The more important question...

Does it REALLY matter....? My Honda, based on the "POOR" factory oil filter, should have died many years ago.

IT DIDN'T...


It didn't make a "perceivable" difference, because when engines still seem to run OK people think they are still in "good shape". You could run no oil filter and an engine will still "run" over 100K miles if the oil was changed on a good regular OCI basis.

If you tore that engine apart, you may find that some things are more worn then they would have been if a better oil filter was used. That's the difference between perceived wear and real wear.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Once a skeptic, always a skeptic. No hope, believe what you want. Go buy some 50% @ 20 micron filters and tell yourself they're great.

The more important question...

Does it REALLY matter....? My Honda, based on the "POOR" factory oil filter, should have died many years ago.

IT DIDN'T...



Cummins Filtration agrees that filter efficiency need not be maximized.

Their filters target the size of contaminants determined to be most detrimental to the engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Their filters target the size of contaminants determined to be most detrimental to the engine.


Which is what size of particles? From the tech info I've read on engine wear, it's the stuff smaller than 20 microns that does the most damage, and that is why big commercial rigs, etc use bypass filtering setups which filter down to ~3 microns pretty efficiently.

So based on that, if a regular car filter is 99% @ 20 microns it's also much more efficient at below 20 microns than a filter that is rated at 50% @ 20 microns.

 

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Their filters target the size of contaminants determined to be most detrimental to the engine.


Which is what size of particles? From the tech info I've read on engine wear, it's the stuff smaller than 20 microns that does the most damage, and that is why big commercial rigs, etc use bypass filtering setups which filter down to ~3 microns pretty efficiently.

So based on that, if a regular car filter is 99% @ 20 microns it's also much more efficient at below 20 microns than a filter that is rated at 50% @ 20 microns.




Couldn't agree with you more Zee---has anyone pondering (or using) OEM filters with specs of 50% at 20 mics-----what do you think the % efficiency is at 10 mics?

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: steve20
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Their filters target the size of contaminants determined to be most detrimental to the engine.


Which is what size of particles? From the tech info I've read on engine wear, it's the stuff smaller than 20 microns that does the most damage, and that is why big commercial rigs, etc use bypass filtering setups which filter down to ~3 microns pretty efficiently.

So based on that, if a regular car filter is 99% @ 20 microns it's also much more efficient at below 20 microns than a filter that is rated at 50% @ 20 microns.




Couldn't agree with you more Zee---has anyone pondering (or using) OEM filters with specs of 50% at 20 mics-----what do you think the % efficiency is at 10 mics?


What is the efficiency in By-Pass mode... ? ZERO...! At least for that portion of oil going thru the by-pass...

I wonder if some OEM's try and balance flow , filtration AND minimize by-pass frequency by spec'ing lower efficiency, but less restrictive media.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Their filters target the size of contaminants determined to be most detrimental to the engine.


Which is what size of particles? From the tech info I've read on engine wear, it's the stuff smaller than 20 microns that does the most damage, and that is why big commercial rigs, etc use bypass filtering setups which filter down to ~3 microns pretty efficiently.

So based on that, if a regular car filter is 99% @ 20 microns it's also much more efficient at below 20 microns than a filter that is rated at 50% @ 20 microns.


I'm surprised I have to explain this to you since you seem to know everything.

Oil filters can have more than one purpose.

When the motor oil in our cars and trucks gets full of sludge and contaminants, we change the oil.

18 wheelers have 11 or 12 gallons of oil to deal with so the goals of filtration for these trucks can be very different.

Bypass oil filtration systems in many big rigs attempt to clean and maintain the oil down to 3 microns to "re-refine" the oil for extended service.

The goal is to save the $300+ cost of an oil change every 12,000 miles.

Therefore, standard filtration to protect an automobile engine is very different than filtration for oil maintenance in a big rig running 100,000 + mile OCI's.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Their filters target the size of contaminants determined to be most detrimental to the engine.


Which is what size of particles? From the tech info I've read on engine wear, it's the stuff smaller than 20 microns that does the most damage, and that is why big commercial rigs, etc use bypass filtering setups which filter down to ~3 microns pretty efficiently.

So based on that, if a regular car filter is 99% @ 20 microns it's also much more efficient at below 20 microns than a filter that is rated at 50% @ 20 microns.


I'm surprised I have to explain this to you since you seem to know everything.

Oil filters can have more than one purpose.

When the motor oil in our cars and trucks gets full of sludge and contaminants, we change the oil.

18 wheelers have 11 or 12 gallons of oil to deal with so the goals of filtration for these trucks can be very different.

Bypass oil filtration systems in many big rigs attempt to clean and maintain the oil down to 3 microns to "re-refine" the oil for extended service.

The goal is to save the $300+ cost of an oil change every 12,000 miles.

Therefore, standard filtration to protect an automobile engine is very different than filtration for oil maintenance in a big rig running 100,000 + mile OCI's.


I'm asking you a legitimate question, and I'd appreciate that you don't come across as disrespectful. When the mention of "Cummins Filtration" comes into the discussion with no qualifiers on what that brings to the discussion, then there needs to be some clarification ... not automatically alluding to people as "know it alls".

You make general statements that need some added information and clarification because people can't read minds. So please drop the arrogant and disrespectful attitude or don't post at all.

 

[SilverC6]

It was your statement I was trying to clarify.

You used a half-truth here and a half-truth there to come up with your justification for 99% - 20 micron filtration being the minimum acceptable level of filtration in automotive applications.

Automotive engineers that design the filtration requirements for your car don't see it that way.

So there must be a disconnect between you and the engineers that design modern automotive lubrication systems.

That disconnect is the value of flow in your analysis.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It was your statement I was trying to clarify.

You used a half-truth here and a half-truth there to come up with your justification for 99% - 20 micron filtration being the minimum acceptable level of filtration in automotive applications.

Automotive engineers that design the filtration requirements for your car don't see it that way.

So there must be a disconnect between you and the engineers that design modern automotive lubrication systems.

That disconnect is the value of flow in your analysis.


I really don't know what your trying to get at here with this "half true" allegations. Please go quote me where you think I've come up with "99% @ 20 microns filtration being the minimum acceptable level of filtration in automotive applications".

I said, for ME PERSONALLY (and that means I don't care what others do with oil filters!), I like to use an oil filter that is at least 95% @ 20 microns (ie, WIX or NAPA Golds). So I really don't know where you are coming from except to try and bring harassment to these discussions and try to start arguments and false accusations.

 

[901Memphis]

Imagine how long those older Hondas could have gone if they had Ultras way back then? Probably a million miles from every one.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
It was your statement I was trying to clarify.


BTW - which statement are you specifically talking about?

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Imagine how long those older Hondas could have gone if they had Ultras way back then? Probably a million miles from every one.
Same distance they went (in my experience/in our area), until they got totaled or the body rusted off of them!

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
These days I pretty much just use PureOnes and Ultras ... but now PureOnes are on the "tearing watch list", so it will be Ultra and WIX/NAPA Golds unless I decide to use up the 4 or 5 PureOnes in my filter stash.

I have used NAPA Golds, WIX, Amsoil, Purolator Classics and Motorcraft in the past. All of those filters are at least 95% efficient at 20 microns, which is about my "threshold" for filtering efficiency performance.

I see you are using an Ultra on one of your rides now ... so why put a Platinum on it and get half the filtering efficiency? Guess I don't get the logic.


So 95% instead of 99%.

I stand corrected on this minor issue.

I think the spirit of my post still stands.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
These days I pretty much just use PureOnes and Ultras ... but now PureOnes are on the "tearing watch list", so it will be Ultra and WIX/NAPA Golds unless I decide to use up the 4 or 5 PureOnes in my filter stash.

I have used NAPA Golds, WIX, Amsoil, Purolator Classics and Motorcraft in the past. All of those filters are at least 95% efficient at 20 microns, which is about my "threshold" for filtering efficiency performance.

I see you are using an Ultra on one of your rides now ... so why put a Platinum on it and get half the filtering efficiency? Guess I don't get the logic.


So 95% instead of 99%.

I stand corrected on this minor issue.

I think the spirit of my post still stands.


I don't think you still get it - see red in my quote above that you referenced. I said it what my "threshold" is for filtering efficiency - so please quote me up where you think I said it's a "world standard" and that everyone must use just because I said I like use efficient filters. Do you care what I like to use, or what other like to use? If not, then why do you harass people about it?

I could really care less what other people want to use on their car - they all can read and have a brain to make their own choices based on what they absorb. In fact, if they didn't even use an oil filter or never changed it, I could care less because it's not my car.

So please don't try to troll and dig on me for something everyone else here can plainly understand. You seem to focus and argue with everything I say, and my "harassment radar" is starting to go off, and it just may be noticed by someone who cars if it keeps going on - just sayin'. And BTW, your post "never stood" because you still haven't gotten it.

 

[crazyoildude]

ok great arguments so what is the best all around oil filter is it the Wix or Fram?

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ You've got another thread going on that ... it all depends on what you want to use it for. The best in performance between the two is obviously the Ultra for a couple of reasons (filtering efficiency and OCI use rating).

As I asked in your thread on this comparison - what are you using these filters for? Your own vehicles or customer's vehicles? That could be an additional factor from a business/financial point of view.

The best "all around" filter is not the NAPA Platinum or WIX XP (same filter) due to low efficiency. But that just my personal viewpoint ...