seems thats why the filter is there, maybe just filter changes are needed?
My Opinion on New Car Oil Changes
- Thread starter alwayson
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Originally Posted By: alwayson
When I first changed the oil on my last new car at 1,000 miles it WAS FULL OF METAL PARTICLES. A LOT of metal particles. So even 1,000 miles is way too late to do a first oil change.
Based upon my first 5 UOAs, I would say that 1000 miles is about right for the first OC with another about 3500 after that (or 4500 total miles), then settle into a normal OCI. There was a fair amount of copper, iron, and silicon that was shed during the first 1000 miles, but had dropped off by 10,600 total miles.
Code:
Year: 2010 Make: Ford Model: F-150 FX4
Engine: 5.4L FFV Transmission: 6R80 Axle: 9.75 Ford ELD (3.73)
Date: 03/11 02/11 01/11 10/10 9/10
Oil Brand/Type: PU PU PU PU MC
Oil Viscosity: 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20
API Service: SM SM SM SM SM
Oil Filter: MC MC MC MC MC
Air Filter: MC MC MC MC MC
Lab: BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST
Truck Mileage: 21,600 16,600 10,600 4,500 991
Oil Mileage: 5,000 6,000 6,100 3,509 991
Aluminum: 3 6 3 3 3
Chromium 1 1 1 1 0
Iron: 10 18 13 10 18
Copper: 4 4 5 9 41
Lead: 0 0 0 0 2
Tin: 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon: 17 16 29 45 111
If I may--the regime that you suggest is too excessive and the one that I did may be considered by some to be excessive, and some may argue to wait and capture all of the wear metals in one fell swoop, but there is empirical evidence that extra wear metals exist in the early OCs. Now, whether or not they cause more engine wear remains to be seen, but I believe I did the right thing for the long run.
When I first changed the oil on my last new car at 1,000 miles it WAS FULL OF METAL PARTICLES. A LOT of metal particles. So even 1,000 miles is way too late to do a first oil change.
Based upon my first 5 UOAs, I would say that 1000 miles is about right for the first OC with another about 3500 after that (or 4500 total miles), then settle into a normal OCI. There was a fair amount of copper, iron, and silicon that was shed during the first 1000 miles, but had dropped off by 10,600 total miles.
Code:
Year: 2010 Make: Ford Model: F-150 FX4
Engine: 5.4L FFV Transmission: 6R80 Axle: 9.75 Ford ELD (3.73)
Date: 03/11 02/11 01/11 10/10 9/10
Oil Brand/Type: PU PU PU PU MC
Oil Viscosity: 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20 5W-20
API Service: SM SM SM SM SM
Oil Filter: MC MC MC MC MC
Air Filter: MC MC MC MC MC
Lab: BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST BLKST
Truck Mileage: 21,600 16,600 10,600 4,500 991
Oil Mileage: 5,000 6,000 6,100 3,509 991
Aluminum: 3 6 3 3 3
Chromium 1 1 1 1 0
Iron: 10 18 13 10 18
Copper: 4 4 5 9 41
Lead: 0 0 0 0 2
Tin: 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon: 17 16 29 45 111
If I may--the regime that you suggest is too excessive and the one that I did may be considered by some to be excessive, and some may argue to wait and capture all of the wear metals in one fell swoop, but there is empirical evidence that extra wear metals exist in the early OCs. Now, whether or not they cause more engine wear remains to be seen, but I believe I did the right thing for the long run.
I have never seen any evidence that following either path results in a longer lasting engine. I have never done an early oil change on any of my new vehicles, and have never had an engine problem on any of my vehicles, which I have kept for up to 140,000 miles.
Originally Posted By: alwayson
You've never seen an early oil change recommended at 500 miles or 1000 miles?
What I'm suggesting is merely the mainstream advice my friend.
Not on any of the cars I've owned in recent past.
Let's see:
Now, I don't doubt some mfgs may recommend changing FF early, but based on the above, I wouldn't call it mainstream.
You've never seen an early oil change recommended at 500 miles or 1000 miles?
What I'm suggesting is merely the mainstream advice my friend.
Not on any of the cars I've owned in recent past.
Let's see:
- 1991 Nissan Stanza - first oil change at 3750 miles or 7500 miles, depending on if you follow severe or regular schedule
- 2000 Accord V6 - first oil change at 3750 miles (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2001 A4 - first oil change at 5000 miles (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2001 Jetta - first oil change at 5000 miles (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2002 530i - first oil change at 15000 miles or 1 year (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2008 C300 - first oil change at 13000 miles or 1 year (first regularly scheduled interval)
Now, I don't doubt some mfgs may recommend changing FF early, but based on the above, I wouldn't call it mainstream.
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Originally Posted By: alwayson
Hi 2010FX
I've seen enough ancedotal posts on the internet, that even at 500 miles the oil will be visibly filled with metal.
Thats why I'm switching over to my new scheme on the first page.
Anecdotal information is just that--you should look for FACTS. Although my oil had metal in it at 991 miles and was proven by a UOA--it was not VISIBLY apparent. Ford recommended either 5,000 or 7,500 (depending on service) for the first OC on my FX4; I did it early as personal preference.
In all fairness, you are also free to change the oil in your vehicles as you like, but you should not expect your opinion (because without facts and supporting information, that is all that it is) to be accepted as "gospel" on this site--there are more than a few smart cookies here.
Hi 2010FX
I've seen enough ancedotal posts on the internet, that even at 500 miles the oil will be visibly filled with metal.
Thats why I'm switching over to my new scheme on the first page.
Anecdotal information is just that--you should look for FACTS. Although my oil had metal in it at 991 miles and was proven by a UOA--it was not VISIBLY apparent. Ford recommended either 5,000 or 7,500 (depending on service) for the first OC on my FX4; I did it early as personal preference.
In all fairness, you are also free to change the oil in your vehicles as you like, but you should not expect your opinion (because without facts and supporting information, that is all that it is) to be accepted as "gospel" on this site--there are more than a few smart cookies here.
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I follow the school of thought that a new car should be driven no different from normal, unless the manual states otherwise. The same applies to OCI. Larger metal particles should be caught by the oil filter. Smaller particles may make the oil more abrasive, but this will hopefully speed up the break in process. I do feel nervous about cars where the manual recommends 10-15K OCI, even on new out of factory car.
My Nissan Manual states you dont need to change out the initial fluid cause it is a higher quality and just let it go either the severe or the regular amount. Whatever applies to you. My car was an x rental car so i assume it went at least the full amount. It doesnt bug me at all cause it runs perfectly with no noise or vibrations at all and it looks mint inside. But if I had it at 0 km I might have dumped it at the 2 or 3000km mark. I dont know if it would be better or worse.
Originally Posted By: alwayson
People say the same thing about marijuana.
What does that have to do with the subject of this thread? The consequences of using marijuana have been studied and are well documented (read: there is satisfactory evidence to form an opinion).
People say the same thing about marijuana.
What does that have to do with the subject of this thread? The consequences of using marijuana have been studied and are well documented (read: there is satisfactory evidence to form an opinion).
There always will be "metal chunks" in an engine. My 98' Ford Contour has 134K on it, but my magnetic drain-plug still has metal particles clinging to it when I change it...
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
You've never seen an early oil change recommended at 500 miles or 1000 miles?
What I'm suggesting is merely the mainstream advice my friend.
Not on any of the cars I've owned in recent past.
Let's see:
Now, I don't doubt some mfgs may recommend changing FF early, but based on the above, I wouldn't call it mainstream.
I'm not talking about the manuals Quattro Pete.
You've never seen people recommend an oil change at 500 or 1000?
I'm really the first one?
Originally Posted By: alwayson
You've never seen an early oil change recommended at 500 miles or 1000 miles?
What I'm suggesting is merely the mainstream advice my friend.
Not on any of the cars I've owned in recent past.
Let's see:
- 1991 Nissan Stanza - first oil change at 3750 miles or 7500 miles, depending on if you follow severe or regular schedule
- 2000 Accord V6 - first oil change at 3750 miles (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2001 A4 - first oil change at 5000 miles (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2001 Jetta - first oil change at 5000 miles (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2002 530i - first oil change after 15000 miles or 1 year (first regularly scheduled interval)
- 2008 C300 - first oil change after 13000 miles or 1 year (first regularly scheduled interval)
Now, I don't doubt some mfgs may recommend changing FF early, but based on the above, I wouldn't call it mainstream.
I'm not talking about the manuals Quattro Pete.
You've never seen people recommend an oil change at 500 or 1000?
I'm really the first one?
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Anecdotal information is just that--you should look for FACTS.
No I go by personal experience.
I've done several cars at 1000 miles.
They all had tons of metal in the oil.
Again I ask, am I the first one to say this stuff??
Anecdotal information is just that--you should look for FACTS.
No I go by personal experience.
I've done several cars at 1000 miles.
They all had tons of metal in the oil.
Again I ask, am I the first one to say this stuff??
Originally Posted By: alwayson
I'm not talking about the manuals Quattro Pete.
You've never seen people recommend an oil change at 500 or 1000?
I'm really the first one?
Sure. I've also seen people recommend changing their oil every 2000 miles or having their tires filled with nitrogen, but without facts and data to back it up, it's not very valuable to me.
I'm not talking about the manuals Quattro Pete.
You've never seen people recommend an oil change at 500 or 1000?
I'm really the first one?
Sure. I've also seen people recommend changing their oil every 2000 miles or having their tires filled with nitrogen, but without facts and data to back it up, it's not very valuable to me.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
I'm not talking about the manuals Quattro Pete.
You've never seen people recommend an oil change at 500 or 1000?
I'm really the first one?
Sure. I've also seen people recommend changing their oil every 2000 miles or having their tires filled with nitrogen, but without facts and data to back it up, it's not very valuable to me.
If you really want facts, here are the facts. Oil's pupose is lubrication. Lubricant is a liquid, not a solution of a liquid and irregular solid chunks metal:
http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/lubrication_knowledge_menu.shtml
Originally Posted By: alwayson
I'm not talking about the manuals Quattro Pete.
You've never seen people recommend an oil change at 500 or 1000?
I'm really the first one?
Sure. I've also seen people recommend changing their oil every 2000 miles or having their tires filled with nitrogen, but without facts and data to back it up, it's not very valuable to me.
If you really want facts, here are the facts. Oil's pupose is lubrication. Lubricant is a liquid, not a solution of a liquid and irregular solid chunks metal:
http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrication/lubrication_knowledge_menu.shtml
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Originally Posted By: alwayson
If you really want facts, here are the facts. Oil's pupose is lubrication. Lubricant is a liquid, not a solution of a liquid and irregular solid chunks metal:
If the chunks of metal are in fact floating around the engine, then they will soon enough be trapped by the oil filter. If they are not in the filter, that means they are too heavy to float and therefore are sitting at the bottom of the oil pan and not doing any harm.
If you really want facts, here are the facts. Oil's pupose is lubrication. Lubricant is a liquid, not a solution of a liquid and irregular solid chunks metal:
If the chunks of metal are in fact floating around the engine, then they will soon enough be trapped by the oil filter. If they are not in the filter, that means they are too heavy to float and therefore are sitting at the bottom of the oil pan and not doing any harm.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If the chunks of metal are in fact floating around the engine, then they will soon enough be trapped by the oil filter. If they are not in the filter, that means they are too heavy to float and therefore are sitting at the bottom of the oil pan and not doing any harm.
Now who is making claims without evidence.
If the chunks of metal are in fact floating around the engine, then they will soon enough be trapped by the oil filter. If they are not in the filter, that means they are too heavy to float and therefore are sitting at the bottom of the oil pan and not doing any harm.
Now who is making claims without evidence.
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If the chunks of metal are in fact floating around the engine, then they will soon enough be trapped by the oil filter. If they are not in the filter, that means they are too heavy to float and therefore are sitting at the bottom of the oil pan and not doing any harm.
Now who is making claims without evidence.
Now you see what I'm talking about. We can be here forever, and we will not convince each other because there is no hard evidence on this subject.
Well, maybe other than the fact that there are no junkyards full of fairly new engines that conked out as a result of not having their first oil change at 500 miles.
Have a good day. I'm done here.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If the chunks of metal are in fact floating around the engine, then they will soon enough be trapped by the oil filter. If they are not in the filter, that means they are too heavy to float and therefore are sitting at the bottom of the oil pan and not doing any harm.
Now who is making claims without evidence.
Now you see what I'm talking about. We can be here forever, and we will not convince each other because there is no hard evidence on this subject.
Have a good day. I'm done here.
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: exranger06
And did you suffer any reliability or wear problems because of it? Again, why can Hondas do it no problem but other makes can't?
Well I'll never buy a Honda again. No horsepower. Window motor broke, alignment is thrown off just by looking at it, absolutely zero noise insulation etc.
We've been quite happy with the six Hondas we've had, including the two we have now.
We bought the '99 new, and I did dump the FF at 1K, and followed that with a 3K OCI, and then went to normal (for me) 5-6K OCIs.
I did the same with the Forester.
Hondas have plenty of power if you buy one with three pedals and you understand the engines' power curves.
The hint is that they're born to rev.
I've replaced the driver's door PW regulator assemblies in both of the Accords, when each was twelve years old. Seems a reasonable service life for a window that's lowered and raised all of the time, and it is a very simple R&R of a fairly inexpensive assembly.
I've never had alignment problems with any Honda.
Maybe you just need to find a better shop?
Hondas are usually very quiet, aside from the first Civic that we owned, but most cars from 1976 were quite noisy by current standards.
You remind me of another poster.
Have you recently owned a Ranger, a Forester and a Yaris?
Originally Posted By: exranger06
And did you suffer any reliability or wear problems because of it? Again, why can Hondas do it no problem but other makes can't?
Well I'll never buy a Honda again. No horsepower. Window motor broke, alignment is thrown off just by looking at it, absolutely zero noise insulation etc.
We've been quite happy with the six Hondas we've had, including the two we have now.
We bought the '99 new, and I did dump the FF at 1K, and followed that with a 3K OCI, and then went to normal (for me) 5-6K OCIs.
I did the same with the Forester.
Hondas have plenty of power if you buy one with three pedals and you understand the engines' power curves.
The hint is that they're born to rev.
I've replaced the driver's door PW regulator assemblies in both of the Accords, when each was twelve years old. Seems a reasonable service life for a window that's lowered and raised all of the time, and it is a very simple R&R of a fairly inexpensive assembly.
I've never had alignment problems with any Honda.
Maybe you just need to find a better shop?
Hondas are usually very quiet, aside from the first Civic that we owned, but most cars from 1976 were quite noisy by current standards.
You remind me of another poster.
Have you recently owned a Ranger, a Forester and a Yaris?
Thread title "My Opinion on New Car Oil Changes"
My response "my opinion is that yours is not based on facts".
Opinions are like ...
My response "my opinion is that yours is not based on facts".
Opinions are like ...
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Thread title "My Opinion on New Car Oil Changes"
My response "my opinion is that yours is not based on facts".
Opinions are like ...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28657
Thread title "My Opinion on New Car Oil Changes"
My response "my opinion is that yours is not based on facts".
Opinions are like ...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28657
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