Motor oil / ATF for guns?

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I was just wondering if anyone is using these on their guns, and what their results are.

Also, maybe for Bruce or Mola, is there anything in fresh motor oil that would not be people friendly over time with this type of exposure?

Thanks.
 
I assume you are referring to a lubricating oil for guns, and not necessarily a cleaner.

I prefer a rust and oxidation inhibited oil without phosphorous and sulfur. ATF has less of these two elements than motor oil.

With gun specific oils out there, I would not use ATF or PCMO or HDD unless I had nothing else to protect my gun after a wet day.
 
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With gun specific oils out there, I would not use ATF or PCMO or HDD unless I had nothing else to protect my gun after a wet day.




I agree with that.
 
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I assume you are referring to a lubricating oil for guns, and not necessarily a cleaner.



Yes. I doubt these oils would have much cleaning power when it comes to guns.
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I prefer a rust and oxidation inhibited oil without phosphorous and sulfur. ATF has less of these two elements than motor oil.



Is that for health reasons? Or is it a lubrication issue?
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With gun specific oils out there, I would not use ATF or PCMO or HDD unless I had nothing else to protect my gun after a wet day.



So can I infer that automotive oils have less effective/amounts of rust inhibitors than most quality gun oils?

One issue I have with many (not all) gun oils is that they are just oil, with some anti-corrosion additive. No AW or EP abilities. Motor oil and ATF at least have AW and that would seem to give them an edge. Gear oil has EP but I don't want my guns (and safe!) smelling like rotten eggs!
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I use ATF miced with thinners (10:1, sort of a two stroke) for cleaning/lubing my rimfire bolts.

Only automotive product that goes anywhere near them.
 
Got me there.

I make and use Ed's Red also.

Make a big batch, and share with less flush members at the range.
 
I've used 5W-50 Mobil-1 on my guns before but found it to be too thin.

I prefer to use 75W-140 full synthetic gear oil. I've been using Super Tech brand and I really like how well it works.

I put some on the slide of a friends 1911 and he just looked at me with amazement at how smoooooooooooooooth it rode on the frame rails. Really slick stuff.
 
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I was just wondering if anyone is using these on their guns, and what their results are.

Also, maybe for Bruce or Mola, is there anything in fresh motor oil that would not be people friendly over time with this type of exposure?

Thanks.




I use a 50/50 mix of Royal Purple 5w-30 and MMO. Works just fine for me.
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With the high levels of phosphorus and sulfur, I would not use a differential oil.



http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/S-en.htm#Health effects of sulphur
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Health effects of sulphur
All living things need sulphur. It is especially important for humans because it is part of the amino acid methionine, which is an absolute dietary requirement for us. The amino acid cysteine also contains sulphur. The average person takes in around 900 mg of sulphur per day, mainly in the form of protein.

Elemental sulphur is not toxic, but many simple sulphur derivates are, such as sulphur dioxide (SO2) and hydrogen sulfide.

Sulfur can be found commonly in nature as sulphides. During several processes sulfur bonds are added to the environment that are damaging to animals, as well as humans. These damaging sulphur bonds are also shaped in nature during various reactions, mostly when substances that are not naturally present have already been added. They are unwanted because of their unpleasant smells and are often highly toxic.

Globally sulphuric substances can have the following effects on human health:

- Neurological effects and behavioural changes
- Disturbance of blood circulation
- Heart damage
- Effects on eyes and eyesight
- Reproductive failure
- Damage to immune systems
- Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder
- Damage to liver and kidney functions
- Hearing defects
- Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism
- Dermatological effects
- Suffocation and lung embolism





http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/P-en.htm#Health effects of phosphorus
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Health effects of phosphorus
Phosphorus can be found in the environment most commonly as phosphates. Phosphates are important substances in the human body, because they are a part of DNA materials and they take part in energy distribution. Phosphates can also be found commonly in plants.

Phosphate is a dietary requirement, the recommended intake is 800 mg/day, a normal diet provides between 1000 and 2000 mg/day, depending on the extent to which phosphate rich foods are consumed.

Humans have changed the natural phosphate supply radically by addition of phosphate-rich manures to the soil and by the use of phosphate-containing detergents. Phosphates were also added to a number of foodstuffs, such as cheese, sausages and hams.

Too much phosphate can cause health problems, such as kidney damage and osteoporosis. Phosphate shortages can also occur. These are caused by extensive use of medicine. Too little phosphate can cause health problems.

Phosphorus in its pure form has a white colour. White phosphorus is the most dangerous form of phosphorus that is known to us. When white phosphorus occurs in nature this can be a serious danger to our health. White phosphorus is extremely poisonous and in many cases exposure to it will be fatal.

In most cases people that died of white phosphorus exposure had been accidentally swallowing rat poison. Before people die from white phosphorus exposure they often experience nausea, stomach cramps and drowsiness.

White phosphorus can cause skin burns. While burning, white phosphorus may cause damage to the liver, the heart or the kidneys.




Are the levels/chemistries of gear oil / motor oil on a scale to cause any of these concerns with occasional exposure?
 
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With the high levels of phosphorus and sulfur, I would not use a differential oil.



http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/S-en.htm#Health effects of sulphur
Quote:


Health effects of sulphur
All living things need sulphur. It is especially important for humans because it is part of the amino acid methionine, which is an absolute dietary requirement for us. The amino acid cysteine also contains sulphur. The average person takes in around 900 mg of sulphur per day, mainly in the form of protein.

Elemental sulphur is not toxic, but many simple sulphur derivates are, such as sulphur dioxide (SO2) and hydrogen sulfide.

Sulfur can be found commonly in nature as sulphides. During several processes sulfur bonds are added to the environment that are damaging to animals, as well as humans. These damaging sulphur bonds are also shaped in nature during various reactions, mostly when substances that are not naturally present have already been added. They are unwanted because of their unpleasant smells and are often highly toxic.

Globally sulphuric substances can have the following effects on human health:

- Neurological effects and behavioural changes
- Disturbance of blood circulation
- Heart damage
- Effects on eyes and eyesight
- Reproductive failure
- Damage to immune systems
- Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder
- Damage to liver and kidney functions
- Hearing defects
- Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism
- Dermatological effects
- Suffocation and lung embolism





http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/P-en.htm#Health effects of phosphorus
Quote:


Health effects of phosphorus
Phosphorus can be found in the environment most commonly as phosphates. Phosphates are important substances in the human body, because they are a part of DNA materials and they take part in energy distribution. Phosphates can also be found commonly in plants.

Phosphate is a dietary requirement, the recommended intake is 800 mg/day, a normal diet provides between 1000 and 2000 mg/day, depending on the extent to which phosphate rich foods are consumed.

Humans have changed the natural phosphate supply radically by addition of phosphate-rich manures to the soil and by the use of phosphate-containing detergents. Phosphates were also added to a number of foodstuffs, such as cheese, sausages and hams.

Too much phosphate can cause health problems, such as kidney damage and osteoporosis. Phosphate shortages can also occur. These are caused by extensive use of medicine. Too little phosphate can cause health problems.

Phosphorus in its pure form has a white colour. White phosphorus is the most dangerous form of phosphorus that is known to us. When white phosphorus occurs in nature this can be a serious danger to our health. White phosphorus is extremely poisonous and in many cases exposure to it will be fatal.

In most cases people that died of white phosphorus exposure had been accidentally swallowing rat poison. Before people die from white phosphorus exposure they often experience nausea, stomach cramps and drowsiness.

White phosphorus can cause skin burns. While burning, white phosphorus may cause damage to the liver, the heart or the kidneys.




Are the levels/chemistries of gear oil / motor oil on a scale to cause any of these concerns with occasional exposure?




wow, sounds like it needs a FDA warning label
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Well, I happend to run into a chemist (not in the lube area) on another board that has an uncle that was an LE for several years. He asked his uncle about this topic and this is what he posted:
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Just got off the phone with him (Uncle). What a conversation. My head hurts.


Although not an M.D., his input; reference your question, was that compounds like ZDDP (Zinc-Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate) contain both elements (sulfur and phosporus) that can form compounds under exposure to ICE service conditions that can eventually cause health problems especially under conditions of long term exposure even at what some would deem as safer, lower concentrations. The sulfur compounds formed within engines that are relaesed into the enviroment like hydrogen disulfide (H2S: hydrogen sulfide, smells like rotten eggs) can form various acidic compounds, essentially sulfuric acid (H2SO4, when exposed to and allowed to react with atmospheric moisture) that can be traced as causal to respiratory conditions like asthma that seem recently to be on the rise. He noted that as sulfur content in fuels decreases (especially synthesized diesel fuels with no sulfur and very high cetane index numbers) that sulfur content from within AW additives such as ZDDP that degrade under service conditions begins to have greater importance as a source of sulfur (-Dithio) and phosphorus (-Phosphate) compounds in exhaust emmissions (nanoparticulates) that are typically composed of microscopically fine (nanoparticles @ 30-500 nm) Poly Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH's) that serve as both nucleation and accumulation sources for SO2 (Sulfur Dioxide) as well as the various phosphorus and NOx (nitrogen oxide) compounds emitted by an ICE. He also added that most quality oils like Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Castrol, etc., etc. have plenty of AW additives in their formulations and that adding treatments like STP Oil Treatment were largely a waste of money as the AW/EP already present in the oil's formulation was adequate and adding (more) ZDDP was an exercise in diminishing returns since the existing AW/EP additives already present in the formulation would be sufficient until the next lubricant change.

Certain phosporus compounds have been shown to effect bone health causing embrittlement and other degenerative issues and the commonly encountered H2S and SO2 can cause respiratory issues and have even been loosely tied to increased pulmonary (lung) carcinogenic rates.

The other reason for abandoning ZDDP recently is that Zinc (Zn), Phosporus (P) and Sulfur (S) are all 'catalyst poisons' that tend to destroy the platinum or palladium catalyst applied to the ceramic honeycomb substrate of an automotive catalytic converter over time because ZDDP degrades under thermal stresses in an ICE liberating these elements from the ZDDP molecule and their exclusion as mandated by the EPA is meant to address those concerns. The environmental and economic considerations (as the price of metals, especially platinum and palladium which were not inexpensive to begin with, has gone through the roof as we all know from rising ammunition prices) seem to be the primary motivation for these changes as prior to this, using ZDDP was considered an inexpensive and effective way to achieve AW qualities in a lubricant. No more the case.

As for my humble input, regarding the use of lubricants containing ZDDP (the AW additive that is found in STP Oil Treatment) on your guns as a lube, would be that it most likely would NOT be an issue, due to the fact that the conditions (heat and pressure) requisite for such thermal degradation (wherein the Zn, S and P are chemicaly liberated from the ZDDP molecule) and nucleation (formation of ultra-fine nanoparticulates, especially in the 30-50 nm range that could support accumulation) are simply not present in firearms and most risk (if any) could be sufficiently attenuated by simply washing your hands after handling such an additive. In other words, I think the risk is extremely low and wouldn't worry to much over it unless I were to gulp it down by the bottle, which is highly unlikely.

Hope this provides some perspective.


 
Go to any gun board, and you will find TONS of people using and recommending automotive oils. (mostly Mobil 1) Personally, I use M1 gear lube, mostly because I have half a quart laying around, but it also makes a nice, thick, sticky lube. And I like the smell.
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
I was just wondering if anyone is using these on their guns, and what their results are.

Also, maybe for Bruce or Mola, is there anything in fresh motor oil that would not be people friendly over time with this type of exposure?

Thanks.


Tempest,

My father used motor oil to clean and lube his M1 carbine during WWII. It's better than not cleaning at all.

Now a days everyone's using Mobil 1 synthetic to lube their Glocks. Wether it's motor oil or gun oil it's expensive. A quart of M1 is cheanper than a small bottle of oil specifically for guns/pistols/rifles.

Durango
 
I will tell you when I hunted in Pennsylvania and the weather was downright nasty in Buck season, I used a tip my Ex fatherinlaw taught me, wax your gun with car wax, it works excellent, it protects the wood and steel from, rain, snow, fingerprints, whatever. Works great.
 
Panzerman,

I tried to use car was once on the metal surfaces and it appears to be effective. The wood stockes they have wax especially designed for rifle stocks. In harsh hunting weather the best is to use nickle plating.

Durango
 
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